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Old 11-04-2004, 11:15 PM   #101
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

Great post Kristian my thoughts exactly.

Back to the Supernatural concept.

If I understand you correctly. You have stated that God is responsible for the supernatural world. So if you believe KI to be a part of it, then how do you know if it is good or evil? If I am following you correctly, you believe that both good and evil exist in the supernatural world? Both angels and demons exist there right? Also I think you are saying that you lump everything that is not understandable by humans in there?

Based on what I think I understand about you is that if you believe in the concept of KI, then you would have to believe that it comes from God.

Hope this helps.
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Old 11-04-2004, 11:41 PM   #102
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

The bottomline is we have to be thankful for what we got and serve our lord.In the good old book(bible)It clearly stated not to worship the sun the moon or the stars in the sky.It only leads to deception.NOTHING IS SPIRITUAL WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST..
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Old 11-05-2004, 10:24 AM   #103
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

Quote:
Sarah Bova wrote:
but I do believe there is one way to see that "truth" ... to remove those "colored lenses". But not by anything we do. (ex. training our mind) We are only human, and, just as I have heard a lot on this board, there are some things our human minds just can't know. Not without help, at least, as I believe. That's why I believe the Bible is our "guide book". I know I just mentioned the Bible and that seems to be a no-no here (well, to actually take it seriously) ..but just bare with me. Jesus was the only one who claimed to be the way. The others that I know of claimed to know the way ..but only one claimed to be the way. (correct me if I'm wrong)
See, now here is where the psychological concept of self-fulfilling prophecy comes up. Many so-called Christians believe the Bible to be the guide book and the guide book says that Christ said he was "the way, truth and the light." Now this is based on many assumptions - 1) That the humans who wrote the manuscripts initially were not in fact blurred by their own lenses to the truth while writing it, 2) That the observer effect did not take place and the stories and words were rewritten as they appeared, unchanged 3) That the linguistic abilities of the translators were able to effectively convey that which was being taught in a foreign place, culture and time. The language of Christ's day and region was Aramaic from which things were translated to Latin at some point and then into English. It'd be very interesting if the exact meanings of words came down thru the many versions. As we know, there are many versions of the guide book, which one you believe to be true determines the lense through which you perceive religious and spiritual reality. The illusions are everywhere, even in the guide book.

As a result I don't use the guide book as the final source of info, since the writers of the book itself cannot agree on which is correct. I think the guides who know the path and walk it regularly, or have walked it are a better source of information. The key is to clear away my own lenses to understand what they are saying. Between the guide book and the guides I may be able to get an idea of what the path is truly about and figure out how to walk it. This is just my opinion of course. I don't think any one person has the whole story.

Quote:
Sarah Bova wrote:
What if He really can remove those colored sun glasses, and open up your eyes? I know you don't believe it, but just suppose there was one way to see clearly and remove the lenses ... wouldn't you want to?
And if there were many ways of removing these lenses, of which the person you are looking at now may present only one, wouldn't you want to have a deeper and broader understanding of the same concept to be able to walk the path with knowledge gained from multiple perspectives?

Quote:
Sarah Bova wrote:
We can't go by our standards alone. Our standards need a bigger basis ..
Agreed, which is why it may be a good idea to check around and see what others are saying before one decides to wholly accept any truth.

Quote:
Sarah Bova wrote:
Doesn't it make sense that all ideas form from one truth? I believe that's why there are so many religions and ideas (philosophies) out there ... because they are a result of us trying to do things on our own. (as humans) Isn't that how gossip starts ... there is one true story, but then people don't understand it, twist it, add to it, delete from it, or totally change it .. and then the result is a whole bunch of false rumors.
Exactly, and do you have really, any idea what has been deleted, even recently from the guide book that many Christians currently possess? Even in the early stages the Apocripher was decided by a bunch of normal people to be erased from the official writings because they were the "questionable" texts. There is a lot more info out there that makes up the "Bible" that folks are so quick to quote in infallibility.

Quote:
Sarah Bova wrote:
Also, I do believe in a supernatural world ... but you knew that, right? Do you believe you have a soul? I do ..and that they are supernatural. Your physical body will die ... but does your soul die too? I believe that your physical body is a physical "home" for your supernatural soul ...but when your body dies, your soul goes on ...somewhere else. (the supernatural world). And knowing the "truth" on earth determines where your soul goes.
To me, the soul is as natural as the air I breathe, there is absolutely nothing supernatural about it. It's return to the universe is also a natural thing. In fact the life/death cycle is a natural and unavoidable part of existence imo. But that is my take.

Getting back to the topic of Ki, it can be many things to many people. People will always believe what they want to unless given unignorable proof to the contrary. To me, ki is a very physical thing manifested by a coordination of energy - mental, muscular, emotional and otherwise. It can also exist in a more generic form as indicated by those who say it is merely energy, the "stuff" that creates the universe, that ties together all things. I understand that the views of the world that some develop due to religious or other conceptual systems can influence one's view of something like Ki, since its definition may lie in its classification. For those who believe in a supernatural world that exists separately from the natural world, there can be a problem with Ki if it is classified as supernatural, because these people also tend to have an inordinate (and often unjustified) amount of fear and apprehension to that which they don't understand, for example the so-called supernatural. This fear is a product of their paradigms, the conceptual system through which they view things like Ki. The question is, is this fear justified or have you been programmed to fear these things for someone else's purpose?

This thread reminds me of a saying I heard once - "If we live in a world whose existence can only be defined by that which is definable, catalogable (sp?) and categorisable, then what happens to us when we encounter something that will not be defined, catalogued or categorised? For many, the answer is total confusion.

Just my few cents.
LC

Last edited by L. Camejo : 11-05-2004 at 10:29 AM.

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Old 11-05-2004, 02:54 PM   #104
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
If I am following you correctly, you believe that both good and evil exist in the supernatural world? Both angels and demons exist there right?
mmhmm ....

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
.. Based on what I think I understand about you is that if you believe in the concept of KI, then you would have to believe that it comes from God. ....
Why should I have to believe it comes from God? Based on what I believe, why couldn't ki be evil? Since I believe good and evil are both a part of the supernatural world (and that our natural world is a reflection of it) ... it can be of Satan. I believe God created us in the image of Him with a free will, and he created angels with a free will. Evil formed from those in Heaven that used their free will to turn against God. (Lucifer turned away --> Satan; some angels turned away --> demons) So, I've said it before, but God did not create evil. Though, neither did Satan ... it is just the absence of good .. just as dark is the absence of light. So if ki is evil (which is possible), it does not come from God. (since evil doesn't come from God, it is the effect of turning from the true God) Evil is Satan's territory because he is as sinful as sinful can get. (in Heaven, Lucifer was supposedly God's highest angel) So I believe God created angels with a free will, so they wouldn't be "puppets". Same for us ...except he made us different, in a natural form. He made us and loved us, and wanted us to love Him back ... but genuine love is not by force, it is by choice .. the reason he created us with our free will.

I'm pretty sure of the following, but not exactly (so do correct me please ) ...

- you feel ... God is impersonal
- man is divine (not a sinner)
- the world is getting better, not worse (the theme of evolution ..?)
- man is getting better, not worse
- salvation has nothing to do with diliverance from sin
- miracles are from the mind of man ^
- nothing is for certain


.. let me know I hope I cleared my beliefs up a bit. There's so much more I could say, but that's it for now.


<3 Sarah
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Old 11-05-2004, 07:52 PM   #105
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote:
Now this is based on many assumptions - 1) That the humans who wrote the manuscripts initially were not in fact blurred by their own lenses to the truth while writing it, 2) That the observer effect did not take place and the stories and words were rewritten as they appeared, unchanged 3) That the linguistic abilities of the translators were able to effectively convey that which was being taught in a foreign place, culture and time.
1) If that's true, we should expect to find lots of mistakes in the Bible, shouldn't we? (ex. the Bible says *and always has* that "the stars are not numerable" ... if the people who wrote the Bible were "blurred" and not guided by the holy spirit, as the Bible teaches, we would not expect them to write this truth that the stars are without number. We would expect them to write what man through the centuries has thought ...that there are less than 10,000 stars. (before the time of Galileo and the telescope) Also, the book of Job says that "..God hung the earth on nothing .." .. other religions and philosophies of the time have had various ideas of what held up the earth. (ideas we laugh at today , but they were serious .. just as serious as the Bible was and still is )

2) Again, if that were true, I would expect to see errors.

3) You're right.. different translations can have errors. Maybe not major, but errors none-the-less. BUT we can always go back to the copies of the original manuscripts that were written in Hebrew and Greek .. to check out the translations and refine them. As far as copies of manuscripts, there was a segment of Jewish society (the scribes) and it was their purpose to copy the manuscripts faithfully .. and they had special procedures to insure that faithful copies were made. --- this was varified when the dead sea scrolls were found, which are 1,000 years older than the oldest existing manuscripts at that time.




Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote:
And if there were many ways of removing these lenses, of which the person you are looking at now may present only one, wouldn't you want to have a deeper and broader understanding of the same concept to be able to walk the path with knowledge gained from multiple perspectives?
I haven't always been this strong a Christian. I used to feel a little snobby about accepting only my faith as truth ... even though I still did have pretty good assurance that it was. I definately, definately had doubts (it's okay to doubt, it's how you learn) .. and I looked into other belief systems and religions. I was interested in what others believed and why they did so .. and I actually still am. Everything I studied only made Christianity and the Bible even clearer.

But to answer your question ... no, not really. :-/ According to my beliefs, I have to either fully accept, or fully decline. Jesus either really was the way, or he wasn't. I can't follow every path, or else I'd have to completely disreguard my Christian faith. Believe it or not, I do respect the paths others choose to follow. According to my faith, however, there is only one way ... and I want others to know it. I in no way would force it ... in fact I can't. I attempt to present it in a persuasive manner, but that is all I can and will do. My "guidebook" even agrees that my faith shouldn't be forced ... it says if they do not accept the truth, dust off your feet and move on. I just wanted to let it be known that it is not my motive to "force" any of this on anyone. I am only looking to persuade, as you are me, right?

Christianity is unique ... it stands out from all the other religions and belief systems. All the others focus on "self" in some way or another, while Christianity focuses on salvation though Jesus. Everything else hopes to get to "heaven", be eternally rewarded somehow or achieve peace through themselves ... it's all about self. The Bible is the only religious book that carries the message of grace.


Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote:
Even in the early stages the Apocripher was decided by a bunch of normal people to be erased from the official writings because they were the "questionable" texts. There is a lot more info out there that makes up the "Bible" that folks are so quick to quote in infallibility.
The Apocripher was not originally in the Jewish Bible, before the time of Christ. It was added after the Roman Cathoic reformation. They should have never been added in the first place because the ancient writings were never biblical texts to begin with. They were only added under Catholic influence.



To me, the soul is as natural as the air I breathe, there is absolutely nothing supernatural about it. It's return to the universe is also a natural thing. In fact the life/death cycle is a natural and unavoidable part of existence imo. But that is my take.

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote:
The question is, is this fear justified or have you been programmed to fear these things for someone else's purpose?
Honestly, do you have fear? Cuz me, it's just my theory, but I think everyone has this fear ... like we're supposed to have this fear ...



<3 Sarah
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Old 11-06-2004, 05:18 AM   #106
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

you feel ... God is impersonal

For me it is not so "black and white". God is a big concept. Too big and too great for any human to really conceive of and understand. I try not to personify, to do so confines God to the limited understanding of man. I cannot say that he is impersonal, or indifferent. Not sure it really matters what I think or feel about that. What is important to me is that I am aware of my actions and how they affect me and the world. to simplify, I try to tread lightly on the earth and do good deeds. I believe that if there exist a man sitting on a cloud up there, that this is what he would expect of all of us.

I am critical of many Christians that think the world was put here by God to serve us and that we can abuse and use it, to me if there is a God, then


- man is divine (not a sinner)

Concept of sin is also a human concept that is not so "black and white". I would not subscribe to the definition of Sin that I grew up with in the Christian church. What I experienced is man judging the actions of man based on Man's judgement and interpretation of the bible. In many instances through history the concept of Sin has been used as a tool to achieve power over other men.

If you must use the words "sin", then there are certainly actions that humans take that are poor choices, most fall in line with social values/norms that allow us to function as a society. You can find this as a common thread in all religions and societies. Certainly the bible as a "rule book" covers this pretty good.

But, then you get into the concept of divinity of man. This is where things get a little tricky. In my mind, life in general is divine. If there is a God and he did create us in his image, then we are all a part of the big machine. Everything we do affects something in the world and universe in some small way. Again, as a concept of God....way to big for any one human to understand completely.

Your basic concept is that Man is inherently bad, which is basic Calvinist, protestant doctrine. Calvin wasn't necessarily a bad person, I just don't subscribe to his belief that man is bad. Man is neither good nor bad....man just is man. Man has free will and can choose to do good or bad actions.

By believing that man is bad, I think you set yourself on a negative spiral. This dualisitc philosophy causes conflict within you, even if you aren't aware of it. You doubt yourself and think of yourself as unworthy. If you cannot love yourself and feel good and celebrate your existence and humanity, then that conflict will reflect outward in your actions.

Why bother to conserve energy and take care of the planet? We then start looking at others and judging them as "bad" you then get to War.

The protestant work ethic came from this concept formed by Calvin. If I work hard and show a humble life then god will reward my efforts. So people began to see that God rewards them on earth. Hence you have the "haves" and the "have nots".

I could go on and on...but again, Man is Man...nothing more nothing less. We need to all celebrate humanity and the world and realize that we are part of a great universe and a great god, if you will. Until we realize and embrace this, we will continue to think dualistically and continue to have conflict.

Ideal? ...Yes, but something to work toward.


- the world is getting better, not worse (the theme of evolution ..?)

Again, you pose a dualistic question. The world just exist. It is neither getting better or getting worse...it is evolving. It is getting worse in many ways from humans. We are the single greatest threat on the planet. We are destroying our environment.

Many fundamentalist Christians I know have some disturbing outlooks on this. Lets forgo the whole evolution argument for now and just say that thing are what they are today. I find it ironic that some believe that God is all divine and nothing else and man is bad. They then say that the world and all the resources were put here for man to use as we see fit..and that is okay cause in the end there will be a day of reckoning and the world will be divided into two groups those that accept Jesus as their saviour and those who have not.

I cannot fathom the concept that it is not a sin to destroy the world in God's eyes. I sit in disbelief that THEY feel THEY can interpret what is okay to do to the planet. It is ironic that while they believe that man in not divine that THEY can interpret the divinity of God!

You know, if you really must believe literally in the concept of heaven and hell...duality mind you...then I would say that it is possible to already be in Hell on earth by living a unhappy life surrounded by War, poverty, delusion etc. All self imposed through the actions of man.

- man is getting better, not worse

In many ways man is growing....in other ways we continue to not learn our lessons. I have hope that we will achieve peace in harmony, also known as heaven, one day. I think it is a cop out to accept man as inherently bad then use a concept of God to shift the responsibility on.

We do this all day long. We blame the teachers for not teaching our kids. We sue our doctors when our expectations are not met. We blame our parents for a bad childhood. We use the concept of God and our varioius books of the bible, Koran, etc...to justify our actions when we go to War.

It is not so easy to say that man is getting worse. man is man. We do need to consider our actions and the effects of them. Bottom line, make good choices.

- salvation has nothing to do with diliverance from sin

Not sure how to answer this one really...but here it goes...

Salvation lies in each one of us. If you believe God created us...I would hope that he would what us to all do our best. Using our free will to make mistakes and to learn from them...internalize our lessons and adapt/evolve.

We have great institutions for this to occur. Churches, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist what not..are all there to help us realize our inner potential and help us understand spirituality. It is personal in nature, we must all find our own path. If you and I disagree on one thing it may be that there is only one path to redemption. I think there are many, many paths...and they all lead to the same place.

Deliverance from Sin is our responsibility. I am not a bibical scholar by any means, but I believe that Jesus wanted us to love and to use him as an example of compassion and love. to use him as a vessel to realize this. Yes he is a path to greatness, but Buddha, Mohammed, and others are there as well.

I realize that you may not accept this or agree, and that is okay. The whole point to me is that you are on a path and realizing your potential.

Again, I stated in a previous post that there is room in my mind/heart for all....but is there room in yours for everyone? I know from what I was taught growing up that Jesus had room for all.

- miracles are from the mind of man ^

Not sure where miracles are from. Not sure it matters. Again, the concept of God is huge. We cannot begin to understand how the universe works. If you believe he created it that is fine too....it is still too great in scope to understand from the limited minds of humans.

While our intellectual capacity may be limited, our potential to achieve greatness is not! There are multitudes of stories where man has overcome adversity. The Catholic church tends to label these people Saints.

Again, miracles just like everything else just happen...who knows why or how. To me it is not important only to celebrate that they do occur.


- nothing is for certain

Not exactly sure what you mean by nothing is for certain. We don't really know why things happen. I do feel that the world is not random in nature. There is order and structure and everything is dependent on everything else in the universe at a basic level. It is certain that if man continues to pollute the world that it will not look like it does today in the future!

Again, we need to consider our actions and be "listen" to how they affect the world. Seeking to understand and be sympathetic to the subtle shifts that occur, watching for the changes, positive and negative. If we as humans don't do this we won't see the conflict that we are creating. It will continue to pop up.

The current wars we are fighting are third order effects from things we have been doing for well over 100 years. It was "certain" that the wars would occur based on the course of events that led up to them. Eastern Philosophy calls this Karma. Karma, might I add, is not predestination as many westerners might think. Most westerners think that predestination is unavoidable and set forth by a interferring God. Karma is your nature, but you can affect it's destiny through your actions.

So, things do happen for a reason, but we as humans have control over it in many ways. We need to realize this if we are going to have peace.

What I have just described to you is KI. It is not mysterious and not supernatural. It is inate in all of us and we can use it for good or bad.

The Aikido dojo is not a religious place, but a place for us to practice. An allegory if you will of life. It helps our small minds through the allegory of physical contact see how we can recieve and exchange energy and emotions etc. We can choose to harm some one, or we can improve ourselves to the point of being good enough to redirect the flow of energy.

Some like it just because it is fun.

Others like it because it makes them feel good.

Others like it because it is spiritual.

It doesn't matter why you like it...Aikido, KI, and all that surrounds it just IS. Not good, not bad..just IS.

Sara, Thanks for the opportunity to verbalize and express my thoughts...this has been fun!

Kevin
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Old 11-06-2004, 10:03 AM   #107
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

What Kevin said .

Quote:
Honestly, do you have fear? Cuz me, it's just my theory, but I think everyone has this fear ... like we're supposed to have this fear ...
As far as fear goes, I have a saying that most of my dualistic minded so-called faith-filled peeps are quick to quote but often unable to enact - "Where there is true faith there is NO fear." When I escaped the dogma of the guide book and took a look at the real, and a look at the life of Christ and other masters I realised that I was on the right track in not having fear. So many are taught to instinctively love good and dislike evil even if they don't admit it. I have found this dualistic thinking counterproductive to understanding the negative aspects of reality and evolving as a total being. There are dangers, but understanding of that danger, not fear, keeps one safe.

Quote:
I am only looking to persuade, as you are me, right?
Wrong.

As far as persuasion goes, I am not trying to persuade anyone to do or believe anything because I really, honestly believe every one has his or her own personal path, and must walk it their own way. I'm merely expressing my views, I'd prefer if no one took it to heart to be honest, because I am speaking of only the way I have found, this does not mean that it will work for you.

This is also why I have zero tolerance for the folks who want to come into your house or call you out of it or meet you on the street and hit you with a Blitzkrieg and carpet bomb you with a Bible and what they believe about God and Christ. I'm sure many know the name these folks go by, trying to say they are witness to something. For me, trying to beat your views into someone else's head shows a lack of confidence in your own understanding and moreso respect, making you need to convert people to see your view in a sad hope of gaining that confidence. If what one says is true it will become evident without any prompting or planting of ideas into someone's mind.

Like Ueshiba said and Christ instructed, respect is key. If some Christians honestly had respect for other religions they would not openly go out and try to convert people who already have a belief system. Like it or not it comes down to the "what I believe is right and what you believe is wrong" mindset. Another quality product of the dualistic heaven and hell way of seeing everything, which comes from a fear based system of fearing the devil and blaming him for everything bad and praising God for everything good and not really taking any personal responsibility for much. Dualism at it's finest.

To me, the concept of Shu Ha Ri applies to religion as well - Follow the guide book, Interpret the guide book, Release from the guide book. The divine self is unfettered by nature as it is of the Universe itself (call it God or whoever you want), no book or human for that matter can ever adequately and fully define the path it must take to fulfillment. Some are so enamored with the guide book that they can see nothing else unless the guide book is there to control and tell them what to think. It's interesting though that the Christ that some religions emulate never had a guide book, only the Holy Spirit and a clear mind with which to interpret it. I guess people will always see what they want to see.

Ki in the manifestations I have experienced, is as undefinable, uncatalogable and uncategorisable. Like the universal mind it's manifestations go from the most basic, simple and most obvious to the totally unfathomable.

Gambatte.
LC

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Old 11-06-2004, 10:16 AM   #108
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

Like you say Larry, Fear is born out of dualistic thinking. Fear is the real enemy.

IMHO, if you must personify the devil, then to me he would be born simply on the concept of Fear. Fear is the tool that he uses to control us. Fear is our motivation to take measure to protect ourselves. Any action that I have ever seen taken to placate our fears has resulted in a negative result. War, greed, glutony etc.

The antidote for fear is to recognize it, accept it, and educate ourselves about what causes our fears so we can reduce it.
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Old 11-06-2004, 10:16 AM   #109
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

Sara:

"The Apocripher was not originally in the Jewish Bible, before the time of Christ. It was added after the Roman Cathoic reformation. They should have never been added in the first place because the ancient writings were never biblical texts to begin with. They were only added under Catholic influence."



As was the Entire New Testament, Sara.Written under Roman influence, written under Christian influence. So the true Bible is the Jewish Bible, and the Jews have not recognised that the Messiah has been born yet.
Personally I don't believe in any religion that says their way is the Only way.

Q
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Old 11-06-2004, 04:28 PM   #110
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
As was the Entire New Testament, Sara.Written under Roman influence, written under Christian influence. So the true Bible is the Jewish Bible, and the Jews have not recognised that the Messiah has been born yet.
Many Jews accepted Jesus as messiah, while many did not. Judism and Christianity have always existed together. Moses was a Jew, and a Christian, looking ahead to Christ. Paul was both a Jew and a Christian who lived at a time after the cross. Today I am technically both a Jew and a Christian. Present day Jews who do not accept the Messiah who came (Jesus) are an off-shoot from the main tree trunk of Christianity/Judism that started in the garden of Eden... and continued throughout time to this day.



Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
Personally I don't believe in any religion that says their way is the Only way.
but you respect and tolerate us, right?


<3 Sarah
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Old 11-06-2004, 05:21 PM   #111
Janet Rosen
 
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

Quote:
Sarah Bova wrote:
Many Jews accepted Jesus as messiaht
<3 Sarah
And in doing so, stopped being Jewish and became by defiition Christians. Please do not try to impose your revisionist line of thinking on Jews. Thank you.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 11-18-2004, 08:28 PM   #112
scorpioet2
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

Ki, Chi, Prana or whatever you wish to call it is basically that spark that makes us alive. It is neither good nor bad. It is bio-electrical energy. When you feel good, its cause you energy in your system is flowing good, on days you feel blah, the energy is just not in sync. As to your christian friend saying it comes from the devil, I would say to him that he has Ki or Chi within him right now. Otherwise he would be dead. And even IF it came from evil has he wishes to believe, even that which is bad can have useful and good purposes. To me its like denying that the sky is blue.....it still blue no matter what you believe it to be. It is....it exists...its there. Denial changes nothing and hurts only the denier.
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Old 12-07-2004, 02:40 PM   #113
Ron Pyle
 
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
... Please do not try to impose ... on Jews. Thank you.
Please, Janet. In the humblest way I possibly can. May I ask you to spend an evening with a group of people who call themselves; "Messianic Jews"? They are experts at showing you in the Bible where it speaks of the Messiah. It will read as if it is from the New Testament. But, surprisingly, is not!
This and what I am about to talk about are things men would not comprehend. Not because they are Jews. But because they are men.
This leads to something I wish to bring forth here. That is the fact that God is the God of all men. Not just of the Jews. Yes, that is in the Bible...not just the New Testament. The Messiah said he would build his Church on.....what? ...knowledge straight from God.
Now I read things from the founder of Aikido. When he talks about self sacrificing love of man. Or from Gichin Funakoshi where he says the greatest win in Karate is to win by losing. I have to accept that these men were opening their eyes to God. How far did they go? Did, or how much did they come short? Would they, if coming face to face with Jesus, would have fallen on their faces proclaiming: "Lord!"???????? I don't know? I do know that speaking in these ways shows something. So far, in what I know about Akido philosophy. I like the "wheat" of what is spoken. The "chaf", which there seems to be plenty. I'm willing to take and know it will fall away.
I wonder if the "Ki" that is spoken of is simply our own spirit? Yes, everything does have spirit of some kind. I do know our treatment of everything depends on where our heart is at. Is our heart in seeking our own profit, our own kingdom? If so, we bear a wicked heart. No matter how much we try to make it sound nice. Serving ourselves is wicked. If our heart is in loving man even at our own expense. If our heart is in the next life....not seeking our gain in this life. Then our hearts look away from wickedness. To see the different ways people speak of 'Ki' shows me their hearts. Not to mention the showing of the heart in some people's posts on religion. Now if our heart does truly seek love of mankind. We have simply looked toward the one who is the source of true, self sacrificing, unselfish love. That one is Jesus. Do we love ourselves more than God? More than others? It will show in what we do and say.
When Sarah speaks of good and evil. She is trying to communicate with people who cannot comprehend what she would like to communicate. The Bible is full of God bowing down to man's level and simply saying: "No, this direction. Look this direction". And man keeps looking away because he loves wickedness. God has made it so simple. All one needs to do is to accept Jesus as Lord. He'll come in and change that heart. That's not to say there isn't many who will not allow their heart to change. They won't really give in. That's because they love themselves more than God. The idea of self sacrificing love is abhorrent to them.
From what I've seen so far. This whole "ki" discussion shows me men's hearts.
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Old 12-18-2004, 03:16 PM   #114
Bill Danosky
 
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

I think to say that Ki is evil is like saying electricity or gravity is evil. It's just a natural feature of our universe. My personal belief is that it (energy) and information are possibly the only "real" things in the universe. From that perspective, Ki exists and evil does not.

This thread seems really devisive. Anytime religious dogma is brought up a lot of argument between people, all mutual believers, crops up. What part of Christianity is unifying? I'd spend more time on that part, if I were Christian.
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Old 12-18-2004, 03:31 PM   #115
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

me too Bill!
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Old 12-18-2004, 04:47 PM   #116
Bill Danosky
 
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Re: ki power bad for you / evil??

Hey, as long as we're myth-breaking, I've heard it said that electricity existed in ancient Greece- they just didn't plug into it.

Also, dinosaurs were laying eggs long before chickens came along.
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