I want to kick and punch!

Xu Wenfung wrote: GBP 200.00 (sorry, I don't have the pound sign on my keyboard), and GBP 1,000.00... hmmm, not a bad idea Matt. I actually thought of some Elvis Presley style show outfit as the dogi complete with gems studded belt for my future dan grades. Oriental language? Can I use Old Gaelic instead? Cheers Matt, Boon.

Classic.

The Old Gaelic idea may need a twist in the history, something like a Shaolin Monk taking a wrong turn at Henan and winding up in Ireland or something, but I can see it working.

As to the Elvis idea, well who could argue with the king? If he didn't beat them with his martial arts, he could always dazzle them with rhinestones.

Cheers man,

Matt.

Aikido,teaches about your person,it coordinate your body and your mind=your heart.It takes a long time to be honest with your self,Aikido is growth through love,and being human instead of being of the egoic mind.Be good to yourself and your energy expresses that to others in your life,so that combat,is the very last resort.The reason aikido was developed,is to give you a new life style,and it also was developed for smaller people to protect them selves from bigger violent people.Its angles and Ki and breathing skills.So give it a chance it takes years to get it,like it takes years to get good at anything.I would say if you want to train in an offensive martial art,I would say Kempo is the most real for street self defense,lots of kicking and hitting throws just darn right nasty stuff,but your heart will bleed with pain if you had to harm a human being that way.But you have free will.

Olivia Swann wrote: The weapons thing isn't the main worry with me, I was just throwing that in for emphasis! My main thing is wanting to do some kicking and punching. It's good to see that I didn't get bombarded with a heap of "how could you say such a thing".

Olivia, hope you're getting informative answers you are looking for. Peter brought up a great point earlier about training experience. Many early (and contemporary) students of aikido were competent in other arts before beginning aikido. Also, I think dojos sometimes make students feel disloyal if you cross-train or go to another fighting system. This is unfortunate, but should not sway your decision.

Many of the threads have the same theme: if you don't feel you are ready for aikido, then do something else until you are ready. You are not the first person to have this dilemma, and you won't be the last.

Good luck.

Aikido has openings for punching, kicking, leg sweeps, traps, elbows and destructions. Ask someone where they are in the technique. Look for the jab that collapses to an elbow, then progresses into a leg sweep and ends in a finishing blow. IT IS THERE!

Jon Truho wrote: Aikido has openings for punching, kicking, leg sweeps, traps, elbows and destructions. Ask someone where they are in the technique. Look for the jab that collapses to an elbow, then progresses into a leg sweep and ends in a finishing blow. IT IS THERE!

It may be there, but it is also seems to be rarely practiced, and hardly ever at speed. Usually you've got to visualize it quietly to yourself unless you've got a special understanding with your partner. Any buzz in that is pretty cerebral, not visceral at all.

I get a buzz out of aikido but I totally sympathize with sometimes wanting something a little more punchy/kicky. You know, sometimes I get really in an analytical or studious mode in practice and I just want to hone technique, get it right, get the blending just right, whatever, and there's definitely a kind of buzz to be found in that. But some times I get in the mood for some high-flying thrills or some bruises and aching muscles (maybe on me, maybe on someone else). Cos it feels so good when we stop!

It's all good

=wl

Willy Lee wrote: But some times I get in the mood for some high-flying thrills or some bruises and aching muscles (maybe on me, maybe on someone else). Cos it feels so good when we stop!

You shouldn't have to leave Aikido to get that.

I sure am not happy (sick puppy alert) if I'm not hurting somewhere the next day after Aikido practice.

Interesting point though. The punch/kick drills are simple, repetitive, aerobic, and can be very satisfying. If your Aikido doesn't provide a similar outlet, perhaps you need to develop something. We have tsukuri reps to do that.

Olivia Swann wrote: However.... I really want to do some kicking and punching, a bit more with REAL weapons (i.e. not ones that are obsolete)etc.... I haven't ever really got a buzz out of Aikido. I was thinking of checking out a Hapkido class as I believe it is similar to Aikido but with equal focus on punches and kicks and a lot more weapons work. What do you guys reckon?

Well... it's worth a shot. Certainly a smaller leap of faith than going from aikido to say...muay thai. You may still find it a bit "unbuzzy" for your tastes.

You could go the other route and try something like Close Quarter Combat in conjunction with aikido. It's not very aikido like, but it has all sorts of 'modern weapons' (umbrellas, canes, belts, beer bottles) in the curriculum. Ditto Budo Jitsu which is a little more aikido-like, but looks quite .... hmmmm....to me.

http://www.cqctactics.com/
http://www.budo-jitsu.com/

There's also stuff out there like Savate (kick em in the shins with steel caps, whack em with a brolly or a wooden chair, knives etc), FMA, JJJ (japanese ju jitsu) yadda yadda.

http://www.savateaustralia.com/

http://www.martialartsresource.com/a...sts/fmafaq.htm

(sorry I couldn't find clubs local to you. Take a look in the "white pages" section of Blitz Martial Arts magazine at you local newsagent)

Xu Wenfung wrote: Define real and non-obsolete weapond? For me it is the art of throwing the heavy set mobile phone accurately to hit uke's nose at 50 yards distance called mobile-phono-uchi-dori-do which inccidenly I am a hachidan. I also have a rokkyudan in the art of using the paper-clip to strike at uke's vital nerve spot. You can PM me to get more information

See...that'd be funny if stuff like that didn't exist in real life. :-)

http://www.donrearic.com

Specifically
http://www.donrearic.com/tistraw.html

I have a magazine article (1993 UK COMBAT mag) in which some FMA / Silat guys are going at it using rolled up newspapers and mobile phones.

Do not, repeat Do not underestimate a good rolled up newspaper. Dog's fear em for a reason - they hurt like a S.O.B. :-)

(what can I say...improvised weaponry is a sick hobby of mine)

"However.... I really want to do some kicking and punching, a bit more with REAL weapons (i.e. not ones that are obsolete)etc.... I haven't ever really got a buzz out of Aikido"

I think that a lot of people fail to see that just because, in the dojo, we train with bokken jo and tanto the techniques we use for these can be easily transferred to other "weapons" such as a pool cue, a baseball bat, a bottle instead of a tanto etc.

as for the gun thing, anyone who has seen equilibrium will know that the butt of an m16 can be used (rather effectively, not to mention supprisingly) to do a pretty nasty looking nikkyo projection

Well I looked around, and being where I am there is only one school for each martial art style, and even then not every martial art is represented.

I looked at Kung Fu, Hapkido, and Ju Jitsu. I was disappointed with all three. I could have looked at more but I just thought it was pointless and felt a bit like I'd wasted my time!

While I may want to do something with more variety, the fact is that where I live, there are no classes that come anywhere close to the quality of my Aikido class.

There are varying reasons for this. I think mainly because everyone who does Aikido seems to be around my age (26) or older. There's probably also a shortage of qualified instructors in this part of the world.

After being in a strict-ish environment I was appalled by how in the other classes I watched, people talked and gossiped, there were some standing around doing nothing at all, another class someone's kids kept running in and talking to their Mum.

Added to this, the Kung Fu and Ju Jitsu classes barely did 3 moves in the one class (BORING!!). Hapkido looked kinda cool but was a bit too commercial for my liking. And none of them seemed to have a particular high standard.

Luckily for me, my partner was an instructor when he was younger so he could help me guage the kind of standard. He was shaking his head throughout all of the classes and nearly got up there to show them how to do it!

So... after all that, I'm continuing with Aikido because I'd rather learn something properly and after I've had a couple of weeks break I feel a renewed energy (I think also being exam time I was slightly batty too). My partner is also going to teach me some kicks and punches.

In the end its all good. I'm going to stick with Aikido and learn some extra moves on the side. Like someone else said, you can encorporate punches and kicks in if you want anyway.

I said right from the start if I look around and decide to stay with Aikido then that's a plus, and at least now I know!!

Thanks everyone for your help

Olivia Swann wrote: After being in a strict-ish environment I was appalled by how in the other classes I watched, people talked and gossiped, there were some standing around doing nothing at all, another class someone's kids kept running in and talking to their Mum.

I seem to be having the same problem Olivia, and what you said is pretty much exactly what I said to my wife last night after coming back from a Yoseikan class!! But also from a Karate class two weeks ago, a jujitsu class (also 2 weeks ago) and a Kung Fu class the other day.

However, this week I got talking to a collegue of mine who invited me to his Savate (french kickboxing) class. I wasn't sure what to expect and I was pretty sure that I wasn't going to like it, but I WAS SO WRONG.

The class wasn't as strict as my aikido class, (then again I wasn't expecting it to be since I don't see boxing as a martial art) but it was in a very well organised, (a lot better than the other MA classes), relaxed and very friendly atmosphere. I had punched & kicked bags & pads, sparred a little outside the ring and got a beating (but nothing serious!) inside the ring and I left that evening feeling great!!

I really love aikido and I will continue to go my classes, but like you I wanted to "kick and punch" a little and I think I have found what I've been looking for. I'm going again tonight for another trail before signing up but I doubt I will be disappointed. If you haven't tried a kickboxing class I really reccomend you do so -after all you have nothing to lose........

I hope this helps your search and gook luck!!

Andrew James

Olivia Swann wrote: Well I looked around, and being where I am there is only one school for each martial art style, and even then not every martial art is represented. I looked at Kung Fu, Hapkido, and Ju Jitsu. I was disappointed with all three. I could have looked at more but I just thought it was pointless and felt a bit like I'd wasted my time! While I may want to do something with more variety, the fact is that where I live, there are no classes that come anywhere close to the quality of my Aikido class. There are varying reasons for this. I think mainly because everyone who does Aikido seems to be around my age (26) or older. There's probably also a shortage of qualified instructors in this part of the world. After being in a strict-ish environment I was appalled by how in the other classes I watched, people talked and gossiped, there were some standing around doing nothing at all, another class someone's kids kept running in and talking to their Mum. Added to this, the Kung Fu and Ju Jitsu classes barely did 3 moves in the one class (BORING!!). Hapkido looked kinda cool but was a bit too commercial for my liking. And none of them seemed to have a particular high standard. Luckily for me, my partner was an instructor when he was younger so he could help me guage the kind of standard. He was shaking his head throughout all of the classes and nearly got up there to show them how to do it! So... after all that, I'm continuing with Aikido because I'd rather learn something properly and after I've had a couple of weeks break I feel a renewed energy (I think also being exam time I was slightly batty too). My partner is also going to teach me some kicks and punches. In the end its all good. I'm going to stick with Aikido and learn some extra moves on the side. Like someone else said, you can encorporate punches and kicks in if you want anyway. I said right from the start if I look around and decide to stay with Aikido then that's a plus, and at least now I know!! Thanks everyone for your help

Well, Olivia, I'm glad you're staying with Aikido, but when it comes to judging other schools and arts, the best bit of advice is, "Don't judge a book by its cover."

Back in the '80s, I was a strict karate traditionalist, so when I checked out some dojos in Bangor, Maine, I wasn't all that impressed with the one guy who wore black gis and did forms that *I* had never seen before. But when I started school there, Sensei Bruce was pretty much the only game in town, and training under him helped open my eyes to different ways of doing things.

Of course, we jump ahead to 1997, when I started Kali, and that lands me with one foot in the t-shirts-and-sweat-pants set; I think my experience in Maine left me more open to that.

Now, I didn't visit any of the schools you went to, and so I don't know what the standard is. But when looking into cross-training, you have to take the class for what it is, and not try and judge it too harshly by what you do in Aikido class. I made that mistake in the '80s when I dropped out of Aikido because I didn't think it was as intense as karate. Now I appreciate it more (and oddly enough, this time around its one of my more intense workouts).

I'm fond of thinking "Aikido is what it is and does what it does;" that's true of everything else, and of the people who teach them. Take it for what it is, not what you want it to be.

.... now, if someone could tell me that the above ramblings make any sense at all, I would appreciate it.

I have moved around alot being in the military. I have found each dojo to be different and offer different things. That said, it is hard to find a "good fit". That doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with the other dojos, just doesn't work for you.

My first dojo was sort of like my first date. Wow, you look back and remember it with great memories. Today, if I were to go back 12 years later it would not be the same because I have grown and see things differently than I did then. Not anything wrong with it, just you need different things at different times.

My sensei past away several years ago. He was on the path and viewed martial arts and training to be a evolutionary path. He grew up in Japan and studied for 20 some years, while he stuck to classical japanese structure and forms, he was constantly re-interpreting and evolving his approach and emphasis as he himself grew.

He encouraged us to explore other arts and other dojos.

Where I am at today, well, I am stuck on a small Army post in Germany where there is no game in town. So being I am starting my own program so I can train and others can to. Sometimes you have to define your own path in absence of one.

Good luck finding a school. Finding a good fit is hard to do, especially as you get older and set in your ways!!! Every school has something to teach you...even if it is to serve as a bad example

Hey...if you like aikido but are into the kicking and punching...see if there are any aikijujitsu schools around. If not...see if there are any Nihon Goshen Aikido (which I think is only in the U.S., I dunno for sure) schools. In NGA and Aikijujitsu, they teach a lot of strikes, defenses against those strikes, and how to get out of headlocks and common street attacks. It's pretty good. You may like it! Then again...you could always cross train like I do!!!

I recommend you take Shaolin kung fu. When i started taking it , it totally changed my perspective on self defense. We do punches, kicks and about a million weapons styles. (everything from nunchaku to sai) But i strongly recommend sticking with your aikido training as well. It may not seem like aikido is that effective right now , but you've only done it for a couple months. Give it time. In our dojo , we've actually practiced doing snap kicks , just as something extra to know. You would be surprised at how much aikido helps you grow as a person.

hope this helps.
-paige

I'm not quite sure if you know exactly what have you done at class...
I understand that if you want to give and take kicks, punches and take a high jump maybe aikido just doesn't fit you. On the other side you can't say you have seen it all in a couple of months... I'm also a rookie (i've 4 years of practice) and i learn every day something new... But i love it! that's what i like the most: knowing that i can always disarm someone without hurting him.

what if it's your cousin who's attacking you? would you gave him kicks and punches so that he can wake at the hospital and find he was wrong??? I think that that's not the better way but that's what i think.

Aikido isn't a way of knocking down... (When i want to do that i play PS or something like that :P) Aikido is the way of harmony, that when you don't have any other choice but to fight you can always defend yourself by disarming the oponent.

It's a marcial art, no doubt about it but the main thing is that you don't need to be strong and to have a bunch of muscles to do it.

good luck

Olivia Swann wrote: However.... I really want to do some kicking and punching, a bit more with REAL weapons (i.e. not ones that are obsolete)etc.... I haven't ever really got a buzz out of Aikido.

As for the "obsolete" weapons : have you ever noticed how similar a bokken and a baseball bat could be ?

Why not take Thaiboxing? Mixed-Martial-Arts class? Brazilian JiuJitsu?

For practical weapons... www.dogbrothers.com

Jorgen Matsi wrote: Why not take Thaiboxing? Mixed-Martial-Arts class? Brazilian JiuJitsu? For practical weapons... www.dogbrothers.com

http://www.inosanto.com might be a better place to look for someone new to "practical weapons;" the Dog Brothers are a bit extreme, more for people who can handle full contact, not just starting.

To throw in my AUD$0.02. I study both Hapkido and Aikido (as well as TaeKwonDo). I'm a black belt candidate in HKD but not as advanced in Aikido yet, so I have a reasonable understanding of the differences between them. I find your comment about HKD seeming too "commercial" to be quite strange. Perhaps you ran into one of the McDojang TKD schools that also do a few minor joint locks and call themselves Hapkido?

The biggest difference is the teacher. Hapkido and Aikido actually mean the same thing: Hap is the korean equivalent of Ai. On the Hapkido side, there is a huuuuge variation in the teaching. From the dojangs I've visited in my travels, some are basically just TKD with a few joint locks, others are almost full ground fighting with barely any kicking, and further, other schools are a mix of all three. If you look at the top Hapkido practitioners, particularly the first generation students of Yong Sool Choi, like Ji Han Jae, Bong Soo Han and Kwang Sik Myung, you'll see that there is barely any differences between them and the top Aikido students. Ikkyo, Nikyo, Sankyo, Shihonage, iriminage etc etc. They're all there in Hapkido too. The movements are identical, just that there is extra to the cirriculum, such as striking and more weapons.

In almost every case of the HKD schools I've looked at/visited, Hapkido classes are far less formal than Aikido. There is a lot more interaction between those on the mat during class time. This, I believe, comes from the differences between Japanese and Korean cultures. Korean culture is far less formal than Japanese. If you're thinking that everything should always be very strict, with no talking at all, except for the instructor, then the moives have been too much of an influence in what you think is "proper" for a training centre to have.

As for kicking and punching, ask yourself why you want to do those. As an admitted short person, they're not as useful as you think they might be. I'm tall - 191cm. Kicking and punching is useful to me because I can keep people at a long range before they can do something to me. However, that short person, once they get inside my kicking range can trowel me pretty easily. My CoG is much higher than their's so throws are much easier. The longer limbs make for better leverage to pin with etc. If you're thinking that punching and kicking will help you as a shorter person, then you have the wrong idea about how they would be used in a martial situation. In addition, if you think that they would provide you with a more intense cardio workout, wait until you get a little more advanced in Aikido and start getting tossed across the mat. My most exhausting workouts have always been Aikido related, not the hour straight of kicking/punching in TKD.

The most important rule to remember is "if you are not enjoying yourself, why are you there?" Find a class and teacher that you like and learn whatever they are teaching you, regardless of martial arts style. If you learn the principles of that art rather than the techniques, you'll find that those principles can be applied to any situation that you find yourself in. Jo, well a broom handle or spade works in exactly the same way. Sword, well a cricket bat works in almost the same way too. A flexible weapon like a belt or rope acts like something between a jo and empty hand. Walking stick is just a short Jo, but has a few other fun things you can do with it, but it's still just a truncated Jo - all the same principles apply. That said, wait until you get a little more advanced in Aikido, and you'll see that the kicks and punches are all there, just cleverly disguised in this thing called atemi, and not individually practiced.

Launceston is a fairly small place, so as you have noted, the options may be quite limited for seeing the variations that each art provides. The places that advertise in the YellowPages are typically not the places you want to focus on looking at. Talk to your Aikido teacher. Teachers tend to know a lot more about the schools around and other teachers in other arts that are not advertised. Maybe he/she can point you at a smaller, less public school that you could look at.

Either way, if you'd like to chat more on the various arts, I'm happy to chat privately in PMs or email.

took me around seven years to find out what MA was right for me. I tried Karate, Shaolin Kempo, and even Kung Fu, but nothing was right until I found Aikido. Even now, I do Kendo, Iaido and archery, so you see, two months ain't gonna cut it, buddy.

I've done other styles that have plenty of punching and kicking, JKD and Ju Jitsu. The reason I stopped doing JKD is I found a lot of people there, especially the younger students loved sparring, that's all they wanted to do. So all I found was that I didn't have time to work on technique, just trying to not get hit (which happened a lot), what I like about Aikido is the focus on technique, which as you get better will produce a hard style, through fast powerful techniques you don't need to be able to punch and kick all the time.
Its a question on mindsets, do you want to beat you opponent through seeing who can punch the hardest and for the longest time (remember punch/kicking soon wares you out) or do you want to use a quick, but powerful technique that will quickly end a confrontation. I for one don't want to be spending time duking it out with someone.

cross training is becoming much more popular now as no single martial art can give you everything you may need to protect yourself. however don't get too wrapped up in punching and kicking, groundwork is just as important. we do a lot of atemi and groundwork to compliment our aikido as well as defense from modern weapons like knives, bats, guns (at close range of course!) so i feel that i do get a lot from where i train. so maybe its about finding the right place and style that suits you as cross training can be a lot to take in if you get carried away. my best advice would be to dabble in some boxing as well as your aikido, no one punches like a boxer! as for kicking, best to keep your balance and take uke's instead
hope you get what you want from your training

Stephen Adams wrote: ..... The reason I stopped doing JKD is I found a lot of people there, especially the younger students loved sparring, that's all they wanted to do. So all I found was that I didn't have time to work on technique, just trying to not get hit (which happened a lot) .....

I guess it depends on what offshoot of JKD you're a part of. I'm not a JKD person, but both of my main Kali instructors, Guro Kevin Seaman and Guro Andy Astle, are also Jun Fan/JKD instructors under Sifu Dan Inosanto, and from what I've gathered, their approach is slightly different from what you are describing. AFAIK, there's a lot of ground to cover before they teach you how to spar. And yes, you have to learn how to do it so you can play with the techniques in a random setting. If you start off full boar kicking and punching, the fight-or-fight reflex takes over and you learn nothing.

I checked the instructor list at inosanto.com and there doesn't appear to be a Jun Fan/JKD person from his lineage outside of London. But if you still retain an interest in it, start looking here:

http://inosanto.com/wrapper.php?file=instructorlist.php

Good luck.

aikido is a very beautifull martial art!i don't practise aikido but i really want to find time to start!from the moment i 've read the book of master tohei's ki in daily life,and found some videos of master tohei's i fell in love with aikido!!i beleive it is a very good martial art.i teach taekwondo and hwal moo hapkido in greece.in hwal moo hapkido we have a lot of thai boxing,groundfighting and of course hundreds of teqniques.we do a lot of sparring on thai boxing and ground fighting and freefight.you know like the mixed martial arts fights.it is very good to practise in these things but a lot of painfull too.you need to some time to learn to spar with thai boxing and then ground fighting.and after a while to combine them and you spar with no rules at all.i believe that you must not stop aikido continue practising and as for the kicks and punches,i believe that many aikido masters have thought to teach aikido with punches and kicks.a good example is steven seagal!as for the weapons we use them too but none weapon is real except the sword but after the black belt we use real swords.it is very dangerous you know.so practise some time and you will see in the future if it's good or not!