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Old 11-10-2010, 01:09 AM   #1
dps
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O'sensei's True Budo

http://www.aikidofaq.com/interviews.html

O Sensei: At about the age of 14 or 15. First I learned Tenshinyo-ryu Jujitsu from Tozawa Tokusaburo Sensei, then Kito-ryu, Yagyu Ryu, Aioi-ryu, Shinkage-ryu, all of them Jujitsu forms. However, I thought there might be a true form of Budo elsewhere. I tried Hozoin-ryu Sojitsu and Kendo. But all of these arts are concerned with one-to-one combat forms and they could not satisfy me. So I visited many parts of the country seeking the Way and training. . . but all in vain.

A: Is that the ascetic training of the warrior?

O Sensei: Yes, the search for the true Budo. When I used to go to other schools I would never challenge the Sensei of the dojo. An individual in charge of a dojo is burdened with many things, so it is very hard for him to display his true ability. I would pay him the proper respects and learn from him. If I judged myself superior, I would again pay him my respects and return home.

B: Then you did not learn Aikido from the beginning.

B: When did Aikido come into being?

O Sensei: As I said before, I went to many places seeking the true Budo... Then, when I was about 30 years old, I settled in Hokkaido. On one occasion, while staying at Hisada Inn in Engaru, Kitami Province, I met a certain Takeda Sokaku Sensei of the Aizu clan. He taught Daito-ryu Jujitsu. During the 30 days in which I learned from him I felt something like an inspiration. Later, I invited this teacher to my home and together with 15 or 16 of my employees became a student seeking the essence of Budo.

B: Did you discover Aikido while you were learning Daito-ryu under Takeda Sokaku?

O Sensei: No. It would be more accurate to say that Takeda Sensei opened my eyes to Budo. "

O'sensei was looking for a " true budo " and could not find it in the martial arts that taught one-to-one combat forms. It was when Takeda taught him Daito-ryu Jujitsu ( combat forms for multiple attacks ?) that he found a true budo?

dps
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:46 AM   #2
chillzATL
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
http://www.aikidofaq.com/interviews.html

O Sensei: At about the age of 14 or 15. First I learned Tenshinyo-ryu Jujitsu from Tozawa Tokusaburo Sensei, then Kito-ryu, Yagyu Ryu, Aioi-ryu, Shinkage-ryu, all of them Jujitsu forms. However, I thought there might be a true form of Budo elsewhere. I tried Hozoin-ryu Sojitsu and Kendo. But all of these arts are concerned with one-to-one combat forms and they could not satisfy me. So I visited many parts of the country seeking the Way and training. . . but all in vain.

A: Is that the ascetic training of the warrior?

O Sensei: Yes, the search for the true Budo. When I used to go to other schools I would never challenge the Sensei of the dojo. An individual in charge of a dojo is burdened with many things, so it is very hard for him to display his true ability. I would pay him the proper respects and learn from him. If I judged myself superior, I would again pay him my respects and return home.

B: Then you did not learn Aikido from the beginning.

B: When did Aikido come into being?

O Sensei: As I said before, I went to many places seeking the true Budo... Then, when I was about 30 years old, I settled in Hokkaido. On one occasion, while staying at Hisada Inn in Engaru, Kitami Province, I met a certain Takeda Sokaku Sensei of the Aizu clan. He taught Daito-ryu Jujitsu. During the 30 days in which I learned from him I felt something like an inspiration. Later, I invited this teacher to my home and together with 15 or 16 of my employees became a student seeking the essence of Budo.

B: Did you discover Aikido while you were learning Daito-ryu under Takeda Sokaku?

O Sensei: No. It would be more accurate to say that Takeda Sensei opened my eyes to Budo. "

O'sensei was looking for a " true budo " and could not find it in the martial arts that taught one-to-one combat forms. It was when Takeda taught him Daito-ryu Jujitsu ( combat forms for multiple attacks ?) that he found a true budo?

dps
Takeda showed him the source of power that fueled (or was supposed to fuel) all martial arts. ie, true budo.
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Old 11-10-2010, 07:13 AM   #3
Richard Stevens
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo

I took that last sentence to mean "Takeda sensei opened my eyes to the possibilities"...
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Old 11-11-2010, 08:53 AM   #4
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo

I don't think there are any martial arts that are solely for one on one per se. I think what O'Sensei found in Takeda was a different approach, a different way of thinking about martial arts (combat) in general perhaps. Just my two cents.

Lyle Laizure
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:42 AM   #5
Rob Watson
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo

Maybe he just had his hat handed to him in no uncertain terms for the first time.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 11-11-2010, 03:32 PM   #6
C. David Henderson
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo

It is interesting to read, however, him expressing his dissatisfaction with his early training in terms of the limits of "one-on-one combat forms." What do you think he found limiting? The lack of multiple attacker-forms; the forms themselves ...?

David Henderson
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Old 11-11-2010, 04:21 PM   #7
dps
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo

Quote:
Charles David Henderson wrote: View Post
It is interesting to read, however, him expressing his dissatisfaction with his early training in terms of the limits of "one-on-one combat forms." What do you think he found limiting? The lack of multiple attacker-forms; the forms themselves ...?
"But all of these arts are concerned with one-to-one combat forms and they could not satisfy me."

O'Sensei

It seemed to me that he was relating true budo to being able to handle multiple attackers.

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
Maybe he just had his hat handed to him in no uncertain terms for the first time.
Budo is in part humility?

dps
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Old 11-11-2010, 06:44 PM   #8
Josh Reyer
 
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo

I don't remember the Japanese original, but given the translation, I'd be dollars to donuts the original was kata-geiko, or ichi-tai-ichi kata-geiko, and "one-on-one combat forms" is simplification-cum-explanation by the translator. If you consider how Takeda demonstrated -- letting volunteer uke attack him how they liked and then throwing/pinning them, this would have been quite distinct from the kata-based training of other jujutsu ryu-ha, or the rule-based competition of kendo.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
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Old 11-11-2010, 09:31 PM   #9
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo

〝...まだまだ他に真の武道があるのではないかと思って、宝蔵院流槍術や剣道も手を伸ばしたんですが、どれもこれも一対一の勝負ばかりあきたらないんです。 ...〟

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Old 11-12-2010, 05:38 PM   #10
Josh Reyer
 
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
〝...まだまだ他に真の武道があるのではないかと思って、宝蔵院流槍術や剣道も手を伸ばしたんですが、どれもこれも一対一の勝負ばかりあきたらないんです。 ...〟
Doh! I'd lose money, and with no donuts to show for it! As Professor Goldbury's posting of the original Japanese shows, it's ichi-tai-ichi no shoubu - one on one contests.

Well, he was young and inexperienced when he tried those other arts. I guess even Ueshiba Morihei was not above missing the point.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
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Old 11-12-2010, 08:55 PM   #11
dps
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo

Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
.

Well, he was young and inexperienced when he tried those other arts. I guess even Ueshiba Morihei was not above missing the point.
Okay ummm what does it mean?

David
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Old 11-13-2010, 12:41 AM   #12
Randall Lim
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo

Quote:
Charles David Henderson wrote: View Post
It is interesting to read, however, him expressing his dissatisfaction with his early training in terms of the limits of "one-on-one combat forms." What do you think he found limiting? The lack of multiple attacker-forms; the forms themselves ...?
Maybe what O'Sensei found disatisfying was the lack of spontanuality in techniques. Too much kata, too much form, too much thinking. Not enough formlessness.

True Budo should be formless & spontaneous.
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Old 11-13-2010, 02:09 AM   #13
Josh Reyer
 
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Okay ummm what does it mean?
David
Well, talking only about Yagyu Shingan-ryu and Hozoin-ryu (if we assume, per Ellis Amdur's analysis, that Aioi-ryu was an old term Ueshiba used for aikido, Kito-ryu was a non-standard term for judo, and pleading ignorance about the "Shinkage-ryu Jujutsu"), those are not arts that deal only in one-on-one combat, and only a superficial and naive appraisal of them would see them that way. Which would be understandable, since Ueshiba practiced those arts when young, and only learned the lowest levels.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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Old 11-13-2010, 03:03 AM   #14
dps
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo

Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
Well, talking only about Yagyu Shingan-ryu and Hozoin-ryu (if we assume, per Ellis Amdur's analysis, that Aioi-ryu was an old term Ueshiba used for aikido, Kito-ryu was a non-standard term for judo, and pleading ignorance about the "Shinkage-ryu Jujutsu"), those are not arts that deal only in one-on-one combat, and only a superficial and naive appraisal of them would see them that way. Which would be understandable, since Ueshiba practiced those arts when young, and only learned the lowest levels.
So it would appear that O'Sensei in his youth and early adulthood did not stick with any one art long enough to learn more then the basics ( lower levels) and it was not until he met Takeda that he spent any length of time studying a single art.

dps
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