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11-10-2010, 01:09 AM
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#1
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
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O'sensei's True Budo
http://www.aikidofaq.com/interviews.html
O Sensei: At about the age of 14 or 15. First I learned Tenshinyo-ryu Jujitsu from Tozawa Tokusaburo Sensei, then Kito-ryu, Yagyu Ryu, Aioi-ryu, Shinkage-ryu, all of them Jujitsu forms. However, I thought there might be a true form of Budo elsewhere. I tried Hozoin-ryu Sojitsu and Kendo. But all of these arts are concerned with one-to-one combat forms and they could not satisfy me. So I visited many parts of the country seeking the Way and training. . . but all in vain.
A: Is that the ascetic training of the warrior?
O Sensei: Yes, the search for the true Budo. When I used to go to other schools I would never challenge the Sensei of the dojo. An individual in charge of a dojo is burdened with many things, so it is very hard for him to display his true ability. I would pay him the proper respects and learn from him. If I judged myself superior, I would again pay him my respects and return home.
B: Then you did not learn Aikido from the beginning.
B: When did Aikido come into being?
O Sensei: As I said before, I went to many places seeking the true Budo... Then, when I was about 30 years old, I settled in Hokkaido. On one occasion, while staying at Hisada Inn in Engaru, Kitami Province, I met a certain Takeda Sokaku Sensei of the Aizu clan. He taught Daito-ryu Jujitsu. During the 30 days in which I learned from him I felt something like an inspiration. Later, I invited this teacher to my home and together with 15 or 16 of my employees became a student seeking the essence of Budo.
B: Did you discover Aikido while you were learning Daito-ryu under Takeda Sokaku?
O Sensei: No. It would be more accurate to say that Takeda Sensei opened my eyes to Budo. "
O'sensei was looking for a " true budo " and could not find it in the martial arts that taught one-to-one combat forms. It was when Takeda taught him Daito-ryu Jujitsu ( combat forms for multiple attacks ?) that he found a true budo?
dps
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11-10-2010, 06:46 AM
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#2
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Location: ATL
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 847
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo
Quote:
David Skaggs wrote:
http://www.aikidofaq.com/interviews.html
O Sensei: At about the age of 14 or 15. First I learned Tenshinyo-ryu Jujitsu from Tozawa Tokusaburo Sensei, then Kito-ryu, Yagyu Ryu, Aioi-ryu, Shinkage-ryu, all of them Jujitsu forms. However, I thought there might be a true form of Budo elsewhere. I tried Hozoin-ryu Sojitsu and Kendo. But all of these arts are concerned with one-to-one combat forms and they could not satisfy me. So I visited many parts of the country seeking the Way and training. . . but all in vain.
A: Is that the ascetic training of the warrior?
O Sensei: Yes, the search for the true Budo. When I used to go to other schools I would never challenge the Sensei of the dojo. An individual in charge of a dojo is burdened with many things, so it is very hard for him to display his true ability. I would pay him the proper respects and learn from him. If I judged myself superior, I would again pay him my respects and return home.
B: Then you did not learn Aikido from the beginning.
B: When did Aikido come into being?
O Sensei: As I said before, I went to many places seeking the true Budo... Then, when I was about 30 years old, I settled in Hokkaido. On one occasion, while staying at Hisada Inn in Engaru, Kitami Province, I met a certain Takeda Sokaku Sensei of the Aizu clan. He taught Daito-ryu Jujitsu. During the 30 days in which I learned from him I felt something like an inspiration. Later, I invited this teacher to my home and together with 15 or 16 of my employees became a student seeking the essence of Budo.
B: Did you discover Aikido while you were learning Daito-ryu under Takeda Sokaku?
O Sensei: No. It would be more accurate to say that Takeda Sensei opened my eyes to Budo. "
O'sensei was looking for a " true budo " and could not find it in the martial arts that taught one-to-one combat forms. It was when Takeda taught him Daito-ryu Jujitsu ( combat forms for multiple attacks ?) that he found a true budo?
dps
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Takeda showed him the source of power that fueled (or was supposed to fuel) all martial arts. ie, true budo.
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11-10-2010, 07:13 AM
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#3
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Location: Indianapolis
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 165
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo
I took that last sentence to mean "Takeda sensei opened my eyes to the possibilities"...
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11-11-2010, 08:53 AM
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#4
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Dojo: Hinode Dojo LLC
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 566
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo
I don't think there are any martial arts that are solely for one on one per se. I think what O'Sensei found in Takeda was a different approach, a different way of thinking about martial arts (combat) in general perhaps. Just my two cents.
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11-11-2010, 11:42 AM
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#5
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Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 697
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo
Maybe he just had his hat handed to him in no uncertain terms for the first time.
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11-11-2010, 03:32 PM
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#6
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Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 606
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo
It is interesting to read, however, him expressing his dissatisfaction with his early training in terms of the limits of "one-on-one combat forms." What do you think he found limiting? The lack of multiple attacker-forms; the forms themselves ...?
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David Henderson
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11-11-2010, 04:21 PM
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#7
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo
Quote:
Charles David Henderson wrote:
It is interesting to read, however, him expressing his dissatisfaction with his early training in terms of the limits of "one-on-one combat forms." What do you think he found limiting? The lack of multiple attacker-forms; the forms themselves ...?
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"But all of these arts are concerned with one-to-one combat forms and they could not satisfy me."
O'Sensei
It seemed to me that he was relating true budo to being able to handle multiple attackers.
Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote:
Maybe he just had his hat handed to him in no uncertain terms for the first time.
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Budo is in part humility?
dps
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11-11-2010, 06:44 PM
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#8
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Location: Aichi-ken, Nagoya-shi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 644
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo
I don't remember the Japanese original, but given the translation, I'd be dollars to donuts the original was kata-geiko, or ichi-tai-ichi kata-geiko, and "one-on-one combat forms" is simplification-cum-explanation by the translator. If you consider how Takeda demonstrated -- letting volunteer uke attack him how they liked and then throwing/pinning them, this would have been quite distinct from the kata-based training of other jujutsu ryu-ha, or the rule-based competition of kendo.
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Josh Reyer
The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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11-11-2010, 09:31 PM
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#9
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Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,308
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo
〝...まだまだ他に真の武道があるのではないかと思って、宝蔵院流槍術や剣道も手を伸ばしたんですが、どれもこれも一対一の勝負ばかりあきたらないんです。 ...〟
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P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Kokusai Dojo,
Hiroshima,
Japan
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11-12-2010, 05:38 PM
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#10
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Location: Aichi-ken, Nagoya-shi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 644
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo
Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
〝...まだまだ他に真の武道があるのではないかと思って、宝蔵院流槍術や剣道も手を伸ばしたんですが、どれもこれも一対一の勝負ばかりあきたらないんです。 ...〟
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Doh! I'd lose money, and with no donuts to show for it! As Professor Goldbury's posting of the original Japanese shows, it's ichi-tai-ichi no shoubu - one on one contests.
Well, he was young and inexperienced when he tried those other arts. I guess even Ueshiba Morihei was not above missing the point.
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Josh Reyer
The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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11-12-2010, 08:55 PM
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#11
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo
Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote:
.
Well, he was young and inexperienced when he tried those other arts. I guess even Ueshiba Morihei was not above missing the point.
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Okay ummm what does it mean?
David
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11-13-2010, 12:41 AM
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#12
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Dojo: Tendoryu Aikido Singapore
Location: Singapore
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 94
Offline
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo
Quote:
Charles David Henderson wrote:
It is interesting to read, however, him expressing his dissatisfaction with his early training in terms of the limits of "one-on-one combat forms." What do you think he found limiting? The lack of multiple attacker-forms; the forms themselves ...?
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Maybe what O'Sensei found disatisfying was the lack of spontanuality in techniques. Too much kata, too much form, too much thinking. Not enough formlessness.
True Budo should be formless & spontaneous.
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11-13-2010, 02:09 AM
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#13
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Location: Aichi-ken, Nagoya-shi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 644
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo
Quote:
David Skaggs wrote:
Okay ummm what does it mean?
David
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Well, talking only about Yagyu Shingan-ryu and Hozoin-ryu (if we assume, per Ellis Amdur's analysis, that Aioi-ryu was an old term Ueshiba used for aikido, Kito-ryu was a non-standard term for judo, and pleading ignorance about the "Shinkage-ryu Jujutsu"), those are not arts that deal only in one-on-one combat, and only a superficial and naive appraisal of them would see them that way. Which would be understandable, since Ueshiba practiced those arts when young, and only learned the lowest levels.
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Josh Reyer
The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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11-13-2010, 03:03 AM
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#14
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
Offline
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Re: O'sensei's True Budo
Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote:
Well, talking only about Yagyu Shingan-ryu and Hozoin-ryu (if we assume, per Ellis Amdur's analysis, that Aioi-ryu was an old term Ueshiba used for aikido, Kito-ryu was a non-standard term for judo, and pleading ignorance about the "Shinkage-ryu Jujutsu"), those are not arts that deal only in one-on-one combat, and only a superficial and naive appraisal of them would see them that way. Which would be understandable, since Ueshiba practiced those arts when young, and only learned the lowest levels.
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So it would appear that O'Sensei in his youth and early adulthood did not stick with any one art long enough to learn more then the basics ( lower levels) and it was not until he met Takeda that he spent any length of time studying a single art.
dps
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