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dps 11-10-2010 01:09 AM

O'sensei's True Budo
 
http://www.aikidofaq.com/interviews.html

O Sensei: At about the age of 14 or 15. First I learned Tenshinyo-ryu Jujitsu from Tozawa Tokusaburo Sensei, then Kito-ryu, Yagyu Ryu, Aioi-ryu, Shinkage-ryu, all of them Jujitsu forms. However, I thought there might be a true form of Budo elsewhere. I tried Hozoin-ryu Sojitsu and Kendo. But all of these arts are concerned with one-to-one combat forms and they could not satisfy me. So I visited many parts of the country seeking the Way and training. . . but all in vain.

A: Is that the ascetic training of the warrior?

O Sensei: Yes, the search for the true Budo. When I used to go to other schools I would never challenge the Sensei of the dojo. An individual in charge of a dojo is burdened with many things, so it is very hard for him to display his true ability. I would pay him the proper respects and learn from him. If I judged myself superior, I would again pay him my respects and return home.

B: Then you did not learn Aikido from the beginning.

B: When did Aikido come into being?

O Sensei: As I said before, I went to many places seeking the true Budo... Then, when I was about 30 years old, I settled in Hokkaido. On one occasion, while staying at Hisada Inn in Engaru, Kitami Province, I met a certain Takeda Sokaku Sensei of the Aizu clan. He taught Daito-ryu Jujitsu. During the 30 days in which I learned from him I felt something like an inspiration. Later, I invited this teacher to my home and together with 15 or 16 of my employees became a student seeking the essence of Budo.

B: Did you discover Aikido while you were learning Daito-ryu under Takeda Sokaku?

O Sensei: No. It would be more accurate to say that Takeda Sensei opened my eyes to Budo. "

O'sensei was looking for a " true budo " and could not find it in the martial arts that taught one-to-one combat forms. It was when Takeda taught him Daito-ryu Jujitsu ( combat forms for multiple attacks ?) that he found a true budo?

dps

chillzATL 11-10-2010 06:46 AM

Re: O'sensei's True Budo
 
Quote:

David Skaggs wrote: (Post 268031)
http://www.aikidofaq.com/interviews.html

O Sensei: At about the age of 14 or 15. First I learned Tenshinyo-ryu Jujitsu from Tozawa Tokusaburo Sensei, then Kito-ryu, Yagyu Ryu, Aioi-ryu, Shinkage-ryu, all of them Jujitsu forms. However, I thought there might be a true form of Budo elsewhere. I tried Hozoin-ryu Sojitsu and Kendo. But all of these arts are concerned with one-to-one combat forms and they could not satisfy me. So I visited many parts of the country seeking the Way and training. . . but all in vain.

A: Is that the ascetic training of the warrior?

O Sensei: Yes, the search for the true Budo. When I used to go to other schools I would never challenge the Sensei of the dojo. An individual in charge of a dojo is burdened with many things, so it is very hard for him to display his true ability. I would pay him the proper respects and learn from him. If I judged myself superior, I would again pay him my respects and return home.

B: Then you did not learn Aikido from the beginning.

B: When did Aikido come into being?

O Sensei: As I said before, I went to many places seeking the true Budo... Then, when I was about 30 years old, I settled in Hokkaido. On one occasion, while staying at Hisada Inn in Engaru, Kitami Province, I met a certain Takeda Sokaku Sensei of the Aizu clan. He taught Daito-ryu Jujitsu. During the 30 days in which I learned from him I felt something like an inspiration. Later, I invited this teacher to my home and together with 15 or 16 of my employees became a student seeking the essence of Budo.

B: Did you discover Aikido while you were learning Daito-ryu under Takeda Sokaku?

O Sensei: No. It would be more accurate to say that Takeda Sensei opened my eyes to Budo. "

O'sensei was looking for a " true budo " and could not find it in the martial arts that taught one-to-one combat forms. It was when Takeda taught him Daito-ryu Jujitsu ( combat forms for multiple attacks ?) that he found a true budo?

dps

Takeda showed him the source of power that fueled (or was supposed to fuel) all martial arts. ie, true budo.

Richard Stevens 11-10-2010 07:13 AM

Re: O'sensei's True Budo
 
I took that last sentence to mean "Takeda sensei opened my eyes to the possibilities"...

Lyle Laizure 11-11-2010 08:53 AM

Re: O'sensei's True Budo
 
I don't think there are any martial arts that are solely for one on one per se. I think what O'Sensei found in Takeda was a different approach, a different way of thinking about martial arts (combat) in general perhaps. Just my two cents.

Rob Watson 11-11-2010 11:42 AM

Re: O'sensei's True Budo
 
Maybe he just had his hat handed to him in no uncertain terms for the first time.

C. David Henderson 11-11-2010 03:32 PM

Re: O'sensei's True Budo
 
It is interesting to read, however, him expressing his dissatisfaction with his early training in terms of the limits of "one-on-one combat forms." What do you think he found limiting? The lack of multiple attacker-forms; the forms themselves ...?

dps 11-11-2010 04:21 PM

Re: O'sensei's True Budo
 
Quote:

Charles David Henderson wrote: (Post 268110)
It is interesting to read, however, him expressing his dissatisfaction with his early training in terms of the limits of "one-on-one combat forms." What do you think he found limiting? The lack of multiple attacker-forms; the forms themselves ...?

"But all of these arts are concerned with one-to-one combat forms and they could not satisfy me."

O'Sensei

It seemed to me that he was relating true budo to being able to handle multiple attackers.

Quote:

Robert M Watson Jr wrote: (Post 268100)
Maybe he just had his hat handed to him in no uncertain terms for the first time.

Budo is in part humility?

dps

Josh Reyer 11-11-2010 06:44 PM

Re: O'sensei's True Budo
 
I don't remember the Japanese original, but given the translation, I'd be dollars to donuts the original was kata-geiko, or ichi-tai-ichi kata-geiko, and "one-on-one combat forms" is simplification-cum-explanation by the translator. If you consider how Takeda demonstrated -- letting volunteer uke attack him how they liked and then throwing/pinning them, this would have been quite distinct from the kata-based training of other jujutsu ryu-ha, or the rule-based competition of kendo.

Peter Goldsbury 11-11-2010 09:31 PM

Re: O'sensei's True Budo
 
〝...まだまだ他に真の武道があるのではないかと思って、宝蔵院流槍術や剣道も手を伸ばしたんですが、どれもこれも一対一の勝負ばかりあきたらないんです。 ...〟

Josh Reyer 11-12-2010 05:38 PM

Re: O'sensei's True Budo
 
Quote:

Peter A Goldsbury wrote: (Post 268118)
〝...まだまだ他に真の武道があるのではないかと思って、宝蔵院流槍術や剣道も手を伸ばしたんですが、どれもこれも一対一の勝負ばかりあきたらないんです。 ...〟

Doh! I'd lose money, and with no donuts to show for it! As Professor Goldbury's posting of the original Japanese shows, it's ichi-tai-ichi no shoubu - one on one contests.

Well, he was young and inexperienced when he tried those other arts. I guess even Ueshiba Morihei was not above missing the point.

dps 11-12-2010 08:55 PM

Re: O'sensei's True Budo
 
Quote:

Joshua Reyer wrote: (Post 268141)
.

Well, he was young and inexperienced when he tried those other arts. I guess even Ueshiba Morihei was not above missing the point.

Okay ummm what does it mean?

David

Randall Lim 11-13-2010 12:41 AM

Re: O'sensei's True Budo
 
Quote:

Charles David Henderson wrote: (Post 268110)
It is interesting to read, however, him expressing his dissatisfaction with his early training in terms of the limits of "one-on-one combat forms." What do you think he found limiting? The lack of multiple attacker-forms; the forms themselves ...?

Maybe what O'Sensei found disatisfying was the lack of spontanuality in techniques. Too much kata, too much form, too much thinking. Not enough formlessness.

True Budo should be formless & spontaneous.

Josh Reyer 11-13-2010 02:09 AM

Re: O'sensei's True Budo
 
Quote:

David Skaggs wrote: (Post 268143)
Okay ummm what does it mean?
David

Well, talking only about Yagyu Shingan-ryu and Hozoin-ryu (if we assume, per Ellis Amdur's analysis, that Aioi-ryu was an old term Ueshiba used for aikido, Kito-ryu was a non-standard term for judo, and pleading ignorance about the "Shinkage-ryu Jujutsu"), those are not arts that deal only in one-on-one combat, and only a superficial and naive appraisal of them would see them that way. Which would be understandable, since Ueshiba practiced those arts when young, and only learned the lowest levels.

dps 11-13-2010 03:03 AM

Re: O'sensei's True Budo
 
Quote:

Joshua Reyer wrote: (Post 268148)
Well, talking only about Yagyu Shingan-ryu and Hozoin-ryu (if we assume, per Ellis Amdur's analysis, that Aioi-ryu was an old term Ueshiba used for aikido, Kito-ryu was a non-standard term for judo, and pleading ignorance about the "Shinkage-ryu Jujutsu"), those are not arts that deal only in one-on-one combat, and only a superficial and naive appraisal of them would see them that way. Which would be understandable, since Ueshiba practiced those arts when young, and only learned the lowest levels.

So it would appear that O'Sensei in his youth and early adulthood did not stick with any one art long enough to learn more then the basics ( lower levels) and it was not until he met Takeda that he spent any length of time studying a single art.

dps


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