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Old 05-30-2010, 07:39 PM   #76
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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Mark Murray wrote: View Post
spirituality
spiritual
spirituality
spirituality
spiritual
spirituality
spiritual
spiritual
spiritual
spiritual
spiritual
spiritual
spirituality
spirituality
spirituality
spirituality.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:57 AM   #77
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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After 18 years, and 9 months of Aikido, I have come to believe there is no purpose. I am not saying that in a Zen sort of way. I am being flat out blunt and straight forward. There is no purpose. Was there a purpose yes, and some people still hang to those eves. I was one of them for a long time. Perched on the wise old man's scribed out enlightenment paraphrased in his own voices, thrilled me. I tried to wring out each drop of possible wisdom like a wet towel. I anxiously with batted breath waited for the miracles to happen that would direct me in my life.

I worked hard at techniques to master each and every principle.

I was a chump. I didn't realize it until 18 years later. There is no magic, there is no wisdom to apply to my life. Why, because I am not Japanese and Aikido is. Why, because times have changed, people and society has changed. Aikido is archaic, sadly.

Please forgive me for my bluntness.
Hi,
During a discussion at one of our annual Summer Schools Chiba Sensei went on to talk about [amongst other things ] his own private study of Za Zen meditation.One gentleman asked him what he got out of it.Chiba Sensei smiled and said he didnt really do Za Zen to' get someting from it'.He then went on to say that 'maybe he was a fool'.This made all of us smile.He then went on to indicate that in the world today everyone is trying to beat the clock as it were.and the world was very rarely silent.By doing Za Zen Chiba Sensei said he found a quiet place even for just a short time.
The purpose of Aikido may not always be obvious to each of us even after a number of years training.Regardless of our national identity I believe each person can acquire something of value by training in the art.I think for example that Aikido gives you a method of discovering your 'self'.The challenges of Aikido [facing fear, setbacks etc]all helps you to achieve/express your True self.
This task is not always achieved in a short time.Might take 40/50 years.Might happen in one minute.
I do hope you find your own answers to this question.I wish you well.
All the best , Joe.
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Old 05-31-2010, 09:49 AM   #78
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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Before I left Aikido, I studied the art for more than 10 years. I was really hooked on it, practicing 5 days a week, 2 classes a day for months at a stretch. Suffice to say, it was a healthy addiction. I got to Shodan (under the Aikikai) and I didn't see the point of working toward a higher rank. I was practicing the same material as my seniors and I could spend the rest of my aikido life working on my skills at my present rank.
It seems to me that you have reached your goal as far as what you wanted out of Aikido. . Unless you want to teach what you have learned, with your unique perspective, to others than it is time to quit. Nothing wrong with that.

David
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Old 05-31-2010, 10:35 AM   #79
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
Hi Mark,

I think those are fair points.

My point is that training in Budo is just not a cut and dried thing. In my experience (which is admittedly limited) once one settles on an expectation from one's training, one will neglect other aspects of Budo. That's one of the great challenges of training IMO.
Agreed.

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Nicholas Eschenbruch wrote: View Post
Hi Mark,
Generally, I dont disagree with your balanced appraisal. But the above sentence strikes me as requiring some explanation. "Aiki-skills" TM were the doorway to a "different" spirituality for the founder? What evidence is that based on? Different from what? Would you expand?

Interesting discussion everybody, thanks.
As seen through the research from Stan, Peter, Ellis, and a myriad of others, Ueshiba was more than capable of handling himself against challengers. Even during his time with Deguchi, Ueshiba was learning aiki, learning Internal Power (IP).

Read this very informative post regarding IP:
http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.p...154721#p154721

Aiki is formless and the basis of a very strong, powerful martial skill that is imbued within one's body, mind, and spirit. It transforms from a "skill" into One's Self. As Ueshiba replied, I am aiki.

Think about building a powerful, strong (not physical) budo body that instantly and appropriately changes incoming force and energy such that it is dissipated or returned or used in some manner to nullify the attack. Imagine Tomiki as he stood there and watched as judoka tried to throw him and failed. Takeda tossing Ueshiba around like a rag doll, even though Ueshiba was famed for his physical strength. Imagine the freedom of movement, freedom of martial ability that this conveys. And then imagine the freedom of spirit that is a byproduct of this. Now imagine Ueshiba putting all of that formless aiki, formless freedom of mind and body and spirit into his spiritual vision.

Ueshiba knew the formlessness of aiki. Knew that it could be poured into one's spiritual nature and have it fill that vessel. IMO, it's why he said no one had to follow his exact footsteps.
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Old 05-31-2010, 10:44 AM   #80
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

When something is so hard to pin down it either loses credibility, or it gets more unclear as a result of interpretations and opinions.

After re-reading the thread, it becomes obvious, to me anyway, there are many different individual opinions people hold to, to be the purpose for Aikido. Rational thinking tells us to sort this out to look at O'Sensei and go with what he says.

That ain't easy, it is a daunting task to do look at the purpose of Aikido that is clear as mud. O'Sensei was crystal clear. O'Sensei's tightest students had a hard time understanding much of what he said about Aikido, as one person mentioned. Aikido like many other things in the same boat, having an unclear purpose seems to motivate us to get a clear answer to the purpose. Some say it is obvious, it is a martial art and you have to be effective in using it. While others say, it is for humanitarian purpose, and his message of peace. Many of the experts say it works along the Japanese line of thinking that a purpose is less important then realizing the purpose through years of training. It is a Zen approach and process of reaching satori through practice/experience. The purpose is not laid and explained in black and white. I would argue the Japanese thinking isn't Aikido's intended purpose. Instead is the method of obtaining the purpose. In contrast to a clearly stated purpose written on paper.

When an object doesn't have a clear purpose credibility (until satori) is lost. When a leader doesn't have a clear object, the followers abandon the leader and elect one that does have a clear object. A purpose works the same way, but the difference when a purpose isn't clear the is some lose of credibility. Suffice it to say works on a group dynamic where there is a leadership structure, and when a purpose isn't clear it opens the door for everyone to debate and question the purpose. The turnkey is loss of credibility. Everyone can throw in their 2 cents and be equally valid what the purpose is. The debate rather than clarifying the purpose it becomes more complicated and unclear when there is no unarguable purpose.

We as people need a clear purpose to whatever the degree or process when it comes to an organization. In Aikido, not having a clear purpose has opened it up to questioning its credibility because there isn't a single solid unquestionable purpose. Was that intended by O'Sensei, maybe because of the way Japanese think. It is enough for them to have a purpose not absolute crystal clear as in time those willing to do the distance will have a satori. But, Aikido is international now and a clear set purpose is needed, maybe. If that is correct, than I think it needs to come by the current Doshu. Even if it doesn't match his grandfather's thinking.

Maybe he could declare a purpose. The benefits to not having a clear purpose allows the individual a personal experience, thereby giving people allot of room for personal growth and freedom. Even if these benefits where intended or not it points to a clearer purpose. Then again too much freedom is like anything else, best done in moderation. Growth left unattended or trained can end up not being all that beneficial.

I don't know if Aikido is supposed to have a clear purpose. Maybe that is the purpose. What ever the way Aikido was set up or will be set up it basically be default comes down to the thinking of "what every works for you" line of thought. I don't see the arguments of what the purpose of Aikido to tapper off anytime soon. I wouldn't bet a clear purpose will ever be establish as long as O'Sensei and his beliefs are held high reverence. Until then, for me the purpose of Aikido is an opportunity to get some exercise and get away from all the stress and demands of daily modern life. It is a few hours a week to get some peace of mind, and enjoy what am doing.
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Old 05-31-2010, 11:29 AM   #81
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

To me, one of the big issues about O Sensei's Aikido, his purpose, and Spirituality, is an inherent misunderstanding about what he was portraying Aikido as.

I have read people make statements like "Shinto is the spiritual basis for Aikido…." and I think it's more important to understand that, in my opinion, Shinto just happens to be the form that O Sensei resonated with and expressed his spiritual connection through. One could say that Aikido, in-and-of-itself, is also a form that he expressed it through.

The spiritual basis of Aikido, to me, is the experience(s) he had that revealed, what to him was, the "true nature of things." This is an experience of "spiritual Aiki", or joining with Universal Consciousness or Spirit, and it is beyond Shinto or any organized, codified, or dogmatic belief system or form. It is simply what it is: conscious spiritual connection.

It was out of this that I think he made statements like "Budo is Love" and his notions of the "loving protection of all things" and such. In the end, I believe that O Sensei's spirituality and his AIkido merged, and were inseparable.

Today, people obviously practice AIkido for any number of different reasons. I think O Sensei ultimately meant Aikido to be a way to practice manifesting spiritual experience in every day life, and the "good things" that go along with that. Does that means that one need have a spiritual experience first to do so? Can Aikido practice bring that? Perhaps, to some. Depends on the person, and/or the teacher, depends on what the person has been or is being inducted into. Reverse engineering can be tricky, but not impossible.

So, I think that, as O Sensei developed, Aikido became an expression of his spirituality, I don't think that his spirituality came about only because of his martial Aiki. For him, they were clearly intertwined, but I don't think his Aiki skills were what opened a spiritual door for him, not alone anyway. We'll never really know though.

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Old 05-31-2010, 02:58 PM   #82
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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I have read people make statements like "Shinto is the spiritual basis for Aikido…." and I think it's more important to understand that, in my opinion, Shinto just happens to be the form that O Sensei resonated with and expressed his spiritual connection through. One could say that Aikido, in-and-of-itself, is also a form that he expressed it through. The spiritual basis of Aikido, to me, is the experience(s) he had that revealed, what to him was, the "true nature of things."
My understanding is that "Shinto" is a term that denotes the essential/true nature of things, and that the dogma isn't the point so much as the vehicle used to arrive at the point, which is a deeper understanding of the interconnected nature of things. So from that standpoint, while I think it's perfectly accurate to say Shinto is the spiritual basis for Aikido, I agree with the point you're making.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:40 PM   #83
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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My understanding is that "Shinto" is a term that denotes the essential/true nature of things, and that the dogma isn't the point so much as the vehicle used to arrive at the point, which is a deeper understanding of the interconnected nature of things..........
The difference between theory and practice....

What I mean is, it is this in theory, but not usually in practice. Usually Shinto is so shrouded in ritual and teachings etc. that the essence is lost.

Last edited by Aiki1 : 05-31-2010 at 03:55 PM.

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Old 05-31-2010, 05:27 PM   #84
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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The difference between theory and practice....

What I mean is, it is this in theory, but not usually in practice. Usually Shinto is so shrouded in ritual and teachings etc. that the essence is lost.
That may be for all I know, but my understanding is that the essence is somewhat left to the individual to find. Messing with another's destiny is a big no-no in Shinto, so i can see why much might be left to the individual to sort through, even though the ritual is so highly formalized. When I practiced regularly I often heard that what matters in Shinto is the feeling one generates; not how precisely you're able to perform the parts of the ritual. In other words: you get from it what you put in. I took from that the idea that the "trick" is learning how to put more and more of yourself into the activity, physically, mentally, and spiritually.
I was once invited to a matsuri in Mitsucho near Himeji by a family that was a big part of the festivities. The sense I took from the experience was much in keeping with what I learned at Tsubaki America regarding Shinto, which is centered around celebrating our lives as part of a community which itself is part of something larger.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 05-31-2010, 06:34 PM   #85
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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Me wrote:
I took from that the idea that the "trick" is learning how to put more and more of yourself into the activity, physically, mentally, and spiritually.
Which is the part I think most applies to Aikido purpose, as the founder probably intended it.
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Old 06-01-2010, 02:12 AM   #86
Nicholas Eschenbruch
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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Mark Murray wrote: View Post

As seen through the research from Stan, Peter, Ellis, and a myriad of others, Ueshiba was more than capable of handling himself against challengers. Even during his time with Deguchi, Ueshiba was learning aiki, learning Internal Power (IP).

Read this very informative post regarding IP:
http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.p...154721#p154721
I dont doubt that, and have read it all. What is new to my is that you seem to argue for a spiritual/ metaphysical relevance of aiki, which is not what I myself find in the authors you quote. I even seem to remember Mr. Amdur arguing IS has nothing to do per se with personal development, character.

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Aiki is formless and the basis of a very strong, powerful martial skill that is imbued within one's body, mind, and spirit. It transforms from a "skill" into One's Self. As Ueshiba replied, I am aiki.

Think about building a powerful, strong (not physical) budo body that instantly and appropriately changes incoming force and energy such that it is dissipated or returned or used in some manner to nullify the attack. Imagine Tomiki as he stood there and watched as judoka tried to throw him and failed. Takeda tossing Ueshiba around like a rag doll, even though Ueshiba was famed for his physical strength. Imagine the freedom of movement, freedom of martial ability that this conveys. And then imagine the freedom of spirit that is a byproduct of this. Now imagine Ueshiba putting all of that formless aiki, formless freedom of mind and body and spirit into his spiritual vision.

Ueshiba knew the formlessness of aiki. Knew that it could be poured into one's spiritual nature and have it fill that vessel. IMO, it's why he said no one had to follow his exact footsteps.
Again, I am agnostic as for the historical examples, I have not been there.

With all due respect, I think you are charging "aiki" with a metaphysics that is entirely your own. Invincibilty can lead to freedom? I doubt it. It can lead to megalomaniac fantasies that are not very spiritual at all (and which, ironically, O-Sensei probably also had...), and will likely cause harm if one does not engage with them very very carefully.

But thanks for the discussion!
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:02 AM   #87
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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Nicholas Eschenbruch wrote: View Post
I dont doubt that, and have read it all. What is new to my is that you seem to argue for a spiritual/ metaphysical relevance of aiki, which is not what I myself find in the authors you quote. I even seem to remember Mr. Amdur arguing IS has nothing to do per se with personal development, character.

Again, I am agnostic as for the historical examples, I have not been there.

With all due respect, I think you are charging "aiki" with a metaphysics that is entirely your own. Invincibilty can lead to freedom? I doubt it. It can lead to megalomaniac fantasies that are not very spiritual at all (and which, ironically, O-Sensei probably also had...), and will likely cause harm if one does not engage with them very very carefully.

But thanks for the discussion!
If we're talking major character development or personal, spiritual growth, I think you're right. Aiki isn't the primary factor. And as you note, having exceptional martial ability can also lead to bad character traits. I think that's why it was said not to teach the secret of aiki to just anyone. I'll have to reread HIPS again, but I do disagree that aiki/IS/IP has *nothing* to do with spirituality or personal development. I just don't know *how much* it has to do with those things.

But, the flip side of that coin is the ability and the potential to aid in spiritual growth. This is where Ueshiba shined. He took a system built for combat and death and infused it with his own personal spirituality to create another option.

I don't know all the schools of Daito ryu, but I'm sure they have techniques where an uke gets thrown, joint locked, and subdued. So, what then is the difference in Ueshiba's aikido?

What was the purpose of the change that Ueshiba made? What was that option? When someone attacked him, they were brought into a spiraling maelstrom that was Ueshiba, but then, riding on the outward spirals, they were released. As soon as the attacker connected with Ueshiba, he/she knew, felt, and understood that he/she was out of his/her league. And moved like a puppet to be finally released from the merger of both energies. If you were handled like a child, knew it, knew that you could have been completely and utterly defeated, could have been broken from the power felt in the encounter, but instead was released, would you go back for a second attack? What if the person you attacked was smiling or laughing, not at you, but from being peaceful and happy?

No one misunderstood for long that Ueshiba knew the martial if that was required. Ohba at the Manchurian demonstration proved that. Ueshiba, however, didn't want to show that expression as his anger afterward conveyed. I think he wanted people to see that there was another option, another way of using aiki.

Aiki was the method to create people to be the best martial artists. The learned to be the best that they could be ... or so they thought. Martially, Takeda proved that he was one of the best. Spiritually? Read Hidden in Plain Sight. Read the back issues of Aikido Journal. Ueshiba took aiki from purely martial to both martial and spiritual. Aiki is formless and fit both vessels. It think Ueshiba strove to be the best he could be ... in a complete sense.

It isn't for everyone. Being one of the best martially is something worthy of attaining. Being the best both martially and spiritually? Not exactly easy to do ...
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:26 PM   #88
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

The Founder's purpose of Aikido?

*In my opinion,* in the beginning, before it was really "Aikido" per se, it was to achieve a high level of martial skill based on far deeper principles than just physicality and technique.

In the "end", I believe, due to his own personal and spiritual transformation, it was to provide a vehicle to manifest his (or a) sense of spiritual connection in the world, and have the conscousness and skills to "protect" people even in conflict, which is a high spiritual concept and reflective of his core spiritual experiences and beliefs. In fact I think his Aikido itself became a reflection of these beliefs.

Larry Novick
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:07 PM   #89
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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Larry Novick wrote: View Post
The Founder's purpose of Aikido?

*In my opinion,* in the beginning, before it was really "Aikido" per se, it was to achieve a high level of martial skill based on far deeper principles than just physicality and technique.

In the "end", I believe, due to his own personal and spiritual transformation, it was to provide a vehicle to manifest his (or a) sense of spiritual connection in the world, and have the conscousness and skills to "protect" people even in conflict, which is a high spiritual concept and reflective of his core spiritual experiences and beliefs. In fact I think his Aikido itself became a reflection of these beliefs.
That is the best concise description of O'Sensei's Aikido that I have ever heard or read..

Thank you Larry.

David
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:43 PM   #90
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

You can have the skills ability desire and the competency to fight. AND. Also embrace the philosophical/spiritual side as well. That is the whole point if you ask me. Of course you are also free to do what ever you want and assign whatever meaning you want or filter out whatever you want as well. Howver to say that the fighting side and the spiritual side are at opposite ends and are opposed or some how in conflict with each other is not corect in my mind.

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Old 06-01-2010, 01:58 PM   #91
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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You can have the skills ability desire and the competency to fight. AND. Also embrace the philosophical/spiritual side as well. That is the whole point if you ask me. Of course you are also free to do what ever you want and assign whatever meaning you want or filter out whatever you want as well. However to say that the fighting side and the spiritual side are at opposite ends and are opposed or some how in conflict with each other is not correct in my mind.
Exactamundo, although I think of it as the ability to be highly martially responsible, rather than the ability to fight, as that implies, to me, a certain mindset that I feel limits me. But my context is limited to my life arena, I ain't in the military.

(I have started to roll again though, with a close friend about to get his black belt from one of the Machados.... we practice how to apply a sense of Aiki, and how to use Ki and Center, in BJJ.... fun stuff.)

Last edited by Aiki1 : 06-01-2010 at 02:00 PM.

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Old 06-01-2010, 01:59 PM   #92
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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That is the best concise description of O'Sensei's Aikido that I have ever heard or read..

Thank you Larry.

David
Thanks David.

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Old 06-01-2010, 02:00 PM   #93
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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...is it that really important to argue?
You seem to be implying it's more important to not. Is it really that important to not discuss it? I think it's a good thing to discuss purpose. It helps to clarify intent and the subsequent action(s).

Last edited by mathewjgano : 06-01-2010 at 02:04 PM.

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Old 06-01-2010, 02:08 PM   #94
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

I read this thread all the way though. I have one question whatever the purpose of Aikido started out to be or ended up is it that really important to argue? Knowing the answer will it bringer us any closer to Aikido or to O'Sensei's skill or put us on a profound spiritual path? The art is difficult as it is without complicating it even more. There are allot of good points being made.

There are two groups in these matters. One is those who think Aikido should be for fighting. The other thinks it should be for spiritual practice. Each group is respectively at the end of the spectrum where in the middle most of us are. One end tries to connivence the other end, and everyone else, to A) join them, B) they are wrong. This is a mirror image of the other opposing group's efforts and view of Aikido.

As it stands now, from what I get from this thread the purpose of Aikido is to connivence the other side and everyone else in between to jump on their band wagon.

Either you are going to stick with Aikido and accept all its warts, or you are not and move on to something else. If you move on it is just bad taste to criticize it. Pointing out all its faults and why it failed is silly, when in reality it is the person that failed the art and not the art that failed the person. I agree you do have to spend a good twenty years at it to come to it's purpose, and then there is no guarantee you will come to it purpose. I subscribe to the purpose being inherent to experience. Jumping ship, say less than 20 years or practice, and saying it is flawed is bassackward. It is unfair, and not realistic. Anyone who shows up to practice everyday has the determination to succeed as they will work hard at being skillful. They are fully committed to the art and in fit or the long haul. That is not in itself an easy thing to do and is praise worthy when so many people can't even be consistence in showing up for practice on a regular basis for more than 3 months.

People who bitch about Aikido not meeting not being this or that, and coming to naught, I say look at their commit, and dedication of the years of effort they put into it. Evaluate them then what they say.
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:10 PM   #95
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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Larry Novick wrote: View Post
Exactamundo, although I think of it as the ability to be highly martially responsible, rather than the ability to fight, as that implies, to me, a certain mindset that I feel limits me. But my context is limited to my life arena, I ain't in the military.

(I have started to roll again though, with a close friend about to get his black belt from one of the Machados.... we practice how to apply a sense of Aiki, and how to use Ki and Center, in BJJ.... fun stuff.)
That is cool. A black belt from one of the Machado's. I have trained with RIgan Machado and he promoted my current instructor to black belt. Great guys!

I think that the whole reason Budo works in general is it explores the differences and the synthesis of the duality of conflict, of course. Personally, the more I learn about the power we possess or at least the potential that we possess, I also learn (I hope) about the responsibility that comes with it, and how close we walk on the knife's edge constantly even if we are not aware of it!

To say that Budo is about "X" or it is about "Y" I don't really understand. To me budo simply is what it is and you get up everyday, you train and you train and you train. Some days are good days, some days are bad days, but even on the bad days I can look to my brothers and sisters along side of me and find strength and joy in our practice to get up another day and continue to fight the hard fight one day at a time.

For me, It don't get any more spiritual than this. Being in the moment of the time that I get to spend on the mat.

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Old 06-02-2010, 11:40 AM   #96
jxa127
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post

There are two groups in these matters. One is those who think Aikido should be for fighting. The other thinks it should be for spiritual practice. Each group is respectively at the end of the spectrum where in the middle most of us are.
That's not how I read it. If anything, I think the "two groups" (and there may be more) agree that there's a spiritual component (for lack of a better term) to aikido.

However, one groups says that the spiritual stuff is the main point and that "effectiveness" is, literally, beside the point. That is, effectiveness is perhaps important, but not the reason for the training.

The other group says that the art must be "effective" for any of the the spiritual stuff to have meaning. In other words, if you can't actually respond to a hostile attack and control the attacker in a way that minimizes harm, then the spiritual metaphor doesn't work.

It is not fair to characterize the first group as a bunch of folks who cooperatively tank for one another when taking ukemi. Nor is it fair to characterize the second group as a bunch of budo bullies breaking wrists with nikyo all the time.

The dichotomies we have are good enough without adding false ones to the mix.

Regards,

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-Drew Ames
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:46 PM   #97
aikishihan
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

If Aikido has a purpose, the Founder made it abundantly clear. He declared his Aikido to be a vehicle for ultimate peace and harmony.

Yet, he was not so naive as to believe for an instant that good thoughts and fuzzy warm feelings were adequate to the task. Accepting that conflict is inevitable in the world and the universe, he wanted to make combat optional as the first choice to make

Our United States has a military component second to none. Yet, it's avowed purpose is not to make war, but to avoid it if at all possible. Using our military might is the last resort, not the first.
Enemies of our country would do well to remember that we retain the right to choose amongst our alternatives, and that we will act.

This is not the forum to discuss the disgusting mishandling of our sovereign right to might by abusive and misguided political leadership

Aikido has the proven martial component ready for use at anytime it is necessary and appropriate. I am relieved to know that well meaning Aikido adepts, along with those from the other worthy martial disciplines, honestly seek non harmful alternatives first.

No, I do not believe that Aikido has any purpose at all. It is after all, an inanimate, and a noble construct, built and maintained on noble principles and enlightened vision.

Rather, it is the motives of the human beings that either honor or dishonor, use, misuse or abuse its capabilities that we should shine any spotlight on.

Perhaps we can imagine that "Aikido's purpose" is about cleansing ourselves, improving our behavior, and being grateful for proven friendship, the kind we find in our daily training.

Last edited by aikishihan : 06-02-2010 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:46 PM   #98
C. David Henderson
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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Drew Ames wrote: View Post

The other group says that the art must be "effective" for any of the the spiritual stuff to have meaning. In other words, if you can't actually respond to a hostile attack and control the attacker in a way that minimizes harm, then the spiritual metaphor doesn't work.
I'd suggest this applies to the view of aikido practice as misogi -- for practice to form the sort of crucible in which something of significant and distinct about the nature of being human emerges in an interaction or within a person, the interactions, if stylized, must also have the vitality of budo.

YMMV

David Henderson
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:22 PM   #99
Mikemac
 
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

Quote:
Francis Takahashi wrote: View Post
Our United States has a military component second to none. Yet, it's avowed purpose is not to make war, but to avoid it if at all possible. Using our military might is the last resort, not the first.
Enemies of our country would do well to remember that we retain the right to choose amongst our alternatives, and that we will act.
You're joking, right? Please tell me you were just trying to be funny.

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Old 06-02-2010, 05:58 PM   #100
MM
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Re: The purpose of Aikido?

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Michael McNamara wrote: View Post
You're joking, right? Please tell me you were just trying to be funny.
I think he was making a point and did so very well. It was a great post, IMO. There's always the Open Forum to discuss our military and politics.
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