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Old 02-25-2004, 03:33 PM   #1
Amassus
 
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Unhappy koshinage (hip throws)

This a question is for all you tall people out there. I seem to have an aweful time getting low enough for hip throws. I know some techniques suit certain body types better than others but I'm sure I could pick up some tips from some of you out there.

Squatting lower is not the answer because I end up so low I can't get back up again. One trick I have discovered is to sort of swing my hips in then push up with my legs as I connect with the uke. It is very effective but something I can't do slowly. I'm told we should be able to do all techniques slowly, so there must be another way.



"flows like water, reflects like a mirror, and responds like an echo." Chaung-tse
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Old 03-03-2004, 03:19 PM   #2
Doka
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Dean

Nobody has replied to you yet, which surprizes me.

There is no substitute - you have to get your hips low! There is a great exercise that builds up the muscle memory and makes hip throws easier.

(You need to have your obi/belt tied at the front with some length hanging)

Grab your partners belt, step in with your lead foot between his/her feet and turn and lower, back straight, so that the belt is over your shoulder.

This will train your body to move in, lowering through the legs, and then you can throw with the hips (raising).

I hope this is clear and understandable.

It is so much easier when you can show and see!!!
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Old 03-03-2004, 04:30 PM   #3
Greg Jennings
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Turn your hips so that the flat of your back is lying against the flat of uke's stomach with their obi knot level with your spine.

It helps to look back over your upper shoulder and to extend the arm that you're connecting through over your hips.

It also helps to be in hanmi with your outside foot being the front, pointed foot.

Then, my man, you just swap hanmi and head away from uke as he goes over you.

I'm 6'2" and I don't have any problems. I had tons before Goto Sensei taught me to do it the way I describe.

Best regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 08-18-2004, 03:09 PM   #4
jsuaikido
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Re: koshinage (hip throws)

I'm no expert but...
Try going to some Judo people and ask about O-Goshi. It is a great throw that is fairly easy to learn but hard to master (go figure...who saw that coming!). The theory behind the O-Goshi and repeated practicing should make you feel more comfortable with using your hips. It did for me.
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:49 PM   #5
NagaBaba
 
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Re: koshinage (hip throws)

Quote:
Dean Suter wrote:
This a question is for all you tall people out there. I seem to have an aweful time getting low enough for hip throws.
This is old thread but hey, we have still summertime!

To speed up the entering into a koshinage see some interesting judo drills. They do it alone against a wall, or with special rubber, or with training mannequin, or finally with partner. You must practice it about thousand times a day, and after a while, it take a half a second to enter.

But after, carefully choose your uke, LOL

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 08-20-2004, 11:47 AM   #6
Ron Tisdale
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Re: koshinage (hip throws)

Quote:
or with special rubber...
Ok, I've heard about using them for waterballons, but using them to practice your koshinage is a new one on me!

Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
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Old 08-20-2004, 02:05 PM   #7
Don_Modesto
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Re: koshinage (hip throws)

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Quote:
or with special rubber... Unquote

Ok, I've heard about using them for waterballons, but using them to practice your koshinage is a new one on me!
The kids on the judo team used to do this. For the longest time I was very impressed. Then I realized that they were using a bike's inner tube.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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Old 08-20-2004, 03:37 PM   #8
siwilson
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Re: koshinage (hip throws)

Quote:
They do it alone against a wall, or with special rubber, or with training mannequin, or finally with partner.


We are still talking about Aikido, right?


Osu!
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Old 08-20-2004, 07:34 PM   #9
NagaBaba
 
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Re: koshinage (hip throws)

Quote:
Si Wilson wrote:


We are still talking about Aikido, right?

sure thing.
Founder methodology was rather simplistic, almost non existing, but now, we made a big step foreward. We are using SCIENCE to teach aikido

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 08-20-2004, 09:39 PM   #10
xuzen
 
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Re: koshinage (hip throws)

[/quote]Squatting lower is not the answer because I end up so low I can't get back up again. One trick I have discovered is to sort of swing my hips in then push up with my legs as I connect with the uke. It is very effective but something I can't do slowly. I'm told we should be able to do all techniques slowly, so there must be another way.[quote]




Under the advise of my sensei, in solo practice, I am doing koshinage using a boxing sandbag, but since sandbag are not very tall, I improvise by doing it in suwari (kneeling). However, must say that practising on real human being is still da best.

What you are saying above sounds like the correct way to do effective koshinage. Regarding, unable to get up again, you just have to work on your leg muscle and wrt to doing it slowly, this takes practice and control. An advance practitioner will be able to do both fast and slow. Maybe it just take practice.

Regards,
Boon

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 08-21-2004, 01:43 PM   #11
Devon Natario
 
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Re: koshinage (hip throws)

Hmm..
I think the "hard" hip throw (Ogoshinage) is one of the hardest Judo throws there is (my opinion). Ogoshi is similar to Koshinage, however, Koshinage is not supposed to be over the obi and it's supposed to be a softer version.

(To the left) Ogoshinage is done by lowering your hip (weight concentrated on your left leg) and pushing it farther out than your partners. At the same time you grab your partners right elbow, with your left hand keeping his arm firm to your body. Your left arm should be wrapped around your partners lower back. You should then lift both with hip and arms and stop at the point where they are balanced on your lower back. If you have gone this far and your opponent isnt over your upper back you are doing great. You should be able to balance your partner there forever if you want. To throw them, all you have to do is look over your left shoulder while keeping your center in tact. (so your entire body pivots with your look. This will send your partner to the ground.

Do this slowly over and over until you feel it's correct. Then speed it up slowly.

If you can do this version, then Koshinage is simple.

Devon Natario
Instructor
Northwest Jujitsu
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Old 09-01-2004, 12:07 PM   #12
Michael Neal
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Re: koshinage (hip throws)

Quote:
This a question is for all you tall people out there. I seem to have an aweful time getting low enough for hip throws.
It is a hard throw for tall people, you might want to try a variation. This is why Judo has so many similar hip throws, not every body types is suited for a particular techniqe.

Go to
http://www.judoinfo.com/gokyo1.htm, each image links to a short movie clip of the throw.
and look at some of the other hip throws. A few variations I would suggest are:

1) Uki Goshi
2) Harai-goshi
3) Koshi Garuma
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Old 09-03-2004, 12:19 PM   #13
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: koshinage (hip throws)

I have a couple of thoughts. Draw your ukes hand way out over your hip. This will help strech your uke over your hips. The other thing I try to do to get under the uke's center is to treat my entry as an atemi. Using my hip as an atemi to uke's groin. (I do not hit the groin. I just use it as a way to see where I need to be.) This will cause uke to rise up on his/her toes and make it easier to load.

Hope it helps.

Lyle Laizure
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Old 09-04-2004, 01:00 PM   #14
guest89893
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Re: koshinage (hip throws)

Quote:
Dean Suter wrote:
This a question is for all you tall people out there. I seem to have an awful time getting low enough for hip throws. I know some techniques suit certain body types better than others but I'm sure I could pick up some tips from some of you out there.

Squatting lower is not the answer because I end up so low I can't get back up again. One trick I have discovered is to sort of swing my hips in then push up with my legs as I connect with the uke. It is very effective but something I can't do slowly. I'm told we should be able to do all techniques slowly, so there must be another way.


Well Dean being one of those Judoka/Aikidoka types and not tall (sorry -wish I was) the advice by all these excellent martial artists is right on. One point to remember you only need to get your Obi (& thus your hip) just under Uke's obi (hip). You are doing this in essence by two motions occurring leading or pulling uke's upper body and drawing uke's center with it and attacking or blending or blocking (depending on the type of hip throw). That's why the special rubber (hey Ron & Don they come with handles now!) so can practice the two motions, we also have a training partner lean back against a wall and we would pull and load -while uke acts as a sack of potatoes. I am writing all this to say I had students 6'4" to 6' 6" and to throw me that is quite a drop of there center. But with a proper load little to no weight is felt, particularly if you turn your head and try to look over the opposite side of your body where you are throwing. Sorry talking on I am sure you've heard all this from others.

Michael had offered alternative hip throws for you to try.
1) Uki Goshi
2) Harai-goshi
3) Koshi Garuma
These are great throws, in fact Uki Goshi and Hani-Goshi are my personal favorites and very effective. But to do them you still need the same basic principle . Uki Goshi is a half hip throw involving and attack with one hip (you can actually knock the wind out of uke just from the contact and then add the ukemi!! Harai-goshi is a more attacking type than Hani my other favorite. In Harai the leg is sweeping/attacking as an undercurrent or riptide. All of these shoot for that, if you really want to understand this technique - you can be dumb like me and spend hours day after day in the ocean just where the wave crest and the riptide cuts. But still have to get your Obi under Uke's obi. A centimeter is enough.
Gene Martinelli
p.s. Before science old Judokas just tied their obi to a tree and practiced that way.
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Old 09-04-2004, 01:37 PM   #15
vanstretch
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Re: koshinage (hip throws)

hi all, we were doing koshi last night for a while. I really like the "throw",oops I mean "pitch", its seems more of a timing pitch than a throw. I dont want to get caught up in a term war with anyone, I am merely saying that it is an advanced technique and a great finesse move if timing,entry and the winds of the gods are in your favor. I like it when i feel like i am in that zero point where very little muscling is used to accomplish the task. For it to work effectively, with a line of all types of ukes comming at you, it feels really good to do it right.
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