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Old 12-12-2003, 07:49 PM   #51
boni tongson
boni tongson's Avatar
Dojo: Club "43" Karate, Ki Aikido Asso. International, Nijon Bujutsu / Philippines
Location: Negros Occidetal
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 16
I guess everyone more or less does either cross train or engage in other activities to either enhance their primary art or to fill some other physical/mental/spiritual void.
i think the thread starter has concluded this already

Last edited by boni tongson : 12-12-2003 at 07:52 PM.

Weak hearts and flesh do not exist where undaunted spirits dwell!
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Old 12-14-2003, 11:55 PM   #52
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Ian Hurst (happysod) wrote:
OT - Bronson, I've always admired your ability with quotes and smileys, you must teach me your technique sometime
I use the little icon on the top right that lets you reply with quote. After that it's just copy, paste and delete.


"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 12-17-2003, 07:53 AM   #53
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 495
Ian - Conclusions?

I TRY not to draw any but...

My thought in starting this thread was because I know for some, aikido is the end all. Aikido is all they do.

While aikido has become my primary focus, I find that on a fitness level it does very little for me. I also like to retain what I learned from the hard styles that I studied.

So I was questioning whether this is something of a modern trend or social trend. I think people are becoming not only more fitness savvy, but also martial savvy and realize that because of the pace of our lifestyles or cultures we are not in the dojo for 6 hours a day or more, which in the past may have been a more rigorous training and took care of all those other things we now seek in other arts, sports, etc.
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Old 12-17-2003, 08:43 AM   #54
Ted Marr
Location: Providence, RI
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 94
This is going to get me a load of flaming replies, but here goes:

It is irresponsible to your development as a martial artist, and for the aikido and martial arts community as a whole NOT to cross-train.

O Sensei cross trained, as did pretty much all the other biggies that I can think of who did really incredible things. Growing and learning are largely processes of synthesis.

Think of it this way, if you will. For any given technique, there are diminishing returns to practice. We all can look at true beginners and envy their ability to improve quite so quickly. Also, the speed with which we learn is largely a function of the gap in ability between ourselves and our teacher. Throw these two facts together, and you can see that it pays to study from more than one teacher, each of whom teaches two distinct sets of techniques.

On top of that, I read something not so long ago that said that in academic circles, something like half of the major breakthroughs are achieved by people trained in other fields and then started study in the field they innovate in. It's anecdotal, but I feel like the same could be said for martial arts. Each art engenders certain questions and ways of looking at the world within each of us. When we take those questions to another art, we learn. When we take that second art's questions back to our primary, we learn more.
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Old 12-17-2003, 10:42 AM   #55
Chris Birke
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 258
Absolutely right, Ted.

There are many who fools who bow to him that would stifle and discredit O'Sensei if he were alive and little known today.
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Old 12-17-2003, 11:20 AM   #56
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Ted, you heathen, may you burn in the fiery pits of unwashed hakomas

I agree with you, but it interesting to wonder how much you could bring into an aikido class from other arts before you stop teaching aikido (as it is now known) and start teaching a hybrid? Would it be a percentage cut-off, philosophical cut-off or just depend on whether you got caught?
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Old 12-17-2003, 02:46 PM   #57
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 53
Wink Free the mind and the rest will follow...

A great deal of the arguments for/against ‘cross-training' are dependent upon mutually exclusive paradigms.

Many people view the Martial Arts, and many other subjects in life, from the ‘outside-in'. They are exposed to something external that appeals to them, which they then seek to acquire - whether it is a skill, object, or some other quality. These people view things as tangible components, some of which they deem incongruent. On the other hand, some people view things from the ‘inside-out', they view the same things as aspects of a continuous whole, which may or may not be developed depending on the individual. Both paradigms are contextually correct, but not absolutely.

Problems arise when we impose this dichotomy upon ourselves, whether consciously or subconsciously, and apply them out of context.

For instance, it is true that Aikido does have a catalog of techniques, all requiring specific actions and/or qualities of the practitioner. It is also true that these actions are unique to Aikido and other directly related Martial Arts. In addition, Tai Sabaki, Kokyu, Ki No Musubi and Awase are arguably a life long pursuit within the context of Aikido. Therefore, cross training may interfere with that process.

It is also true that the human body has a finite number of possible movements/actions. It is also true that these possibilities/limitations are applied martially within the context of an arts cultural origin, so limiting the system developed. It is also true that many elements of these systems are mutually congruent. Therefore, training in other systems may show the limitations/openings of Aikido and the respective systems studied, which cannot be seen within the context of their culturally specific actions, etc., thus improving the process of personal development [within each art and collectively].

It up the individual to decide what course of action is best for them, however, most people never make that decision consciously.

Just my thoughts,


PS I've found ways to switch between Aikido techniques when practicing Muay Thai techniques, and vice versa, which is very unexpected to my training partners. The techniques can fit together in one fluid motion, even though they may seem mutually exclusive Arts on the surface.

Last edited by W^2 : 12-17-2003 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 12-19-2003, 09:34 AM   #58
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 495
No arguments from me Ted.

I now view any other training as crosstraining since aikido is my primary focus and the other things I do - I do to enhane my aikido. Aikido is the method in which I live my life. So whether it be running for conditioning, meditation for stillness, of boxing for footwork, it is all to reach my potential in living the aiki way.

Naturally these other things I do will affect my personal aikido but I don't view it as a hybrid because I focus on remaining true to the pillars of aikido as I understand the art. To me this means extend ki, keep one point, relax completely, and keep weight underside. The techniques themselves are not the significant as long as I blend and make the effort to protect my attacker ( I still have trouble with that one:-)
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Old 12-19-2003, 03:21 PM   #59
Jesse Lee
Dojo: Tenzan Aikido, formerly named Seattle Aikikai
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 94
Well said, Asim, I am on that exact same page

, can't find m s
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Old 12-26-2003, 12:44 AM   #60
Usagi Yojimbo
Dojo: Shinkikan Aikikai Aikido of Corpus Christi
Location: Texas
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 27
I can't read all of that considering it's 1:40 at the time, but credit to you people for making your posts long enough to loose the interest of a half-asleep teenager... now, my question is, how does one blend drunken boxing and Aikido? If you could throw Sumo in there somewhere, that's my life's goal! [/sarcasm] But seriously, the elusive Drunken Boxing is my favourite style, and one I never loose interest in. I've managed to ... jokingly complete a drinken irimi nage or two before, but I would seriously require some better information on Drunken Boxing before any such blending could continue... well, a better resource than Jackie Chan movies and Virtua Fighter 4 I mean. Any sugestions? And yes I am dead tired and not thinking straight, thank you for noticing...

My head hurts...
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