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Old 08-24-2005, 06:35 AM   #1
Bridge
Dojo: Slough Aikikai
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Cross training attitude question

This is something I'm wondering about. A little question for all those who've ever cross trained.

After meeting people who have tried a 2nd style (by choice or necessity), and returned to the original style or quit altogether, I've found they often feel that the other style is "wrong" or "inferior". Or that's pretty much the jist of what they say.

My questions to all those cross trainers who have tried more than 2 styles out there, is:

1: Would you have judged that 2nd style differently knowing what you do now?
2: How has it affected your priorities in training?
3: How do you feel you are regarded by the homegrown (never been elsewhere) students at a new club?

For me, I feel I could have been less judgemental of other styles, perhaps I would have viewed them more favourably now. I've learnt to pick and choose/adapt things that work for me. And I have a felt a range of things as the new person including; feeling like the alien from out of space and/or unwelcome in some cases.

The aikido club I'm at, is a place where there are a significant proportion of students from other arts, so I've been made to feel welcome and not like some alien from outer space.

How has it been for you so far?
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Old 08-24-2005, 07:18 AM   #2
Lyle Bogin
Dojo: Shin Budo Kai
Location: Manhattan
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Re: Cross training attitude question

1. Not really, they are very different.

2. Yes, now I prioritize my personal safety a lot more.

3. They either didn't care or wanted to spar. Ultimately they respect my background or dismiss it as another subject.
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Old 08-24-2005, 08:45 AM   #3
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Cross training attitude question

Quote:
1: Would you have judged that 2nd style differently knowing what you do now?
I didn't don't really do a lot of 'judging', as in better or worse. More of 'where is this useful to me'. Increased experience in the things I do now has highlighted where other things are most appropriate. And what I do now has given me more power to apply even while using those other methods.

Quote:
2: How has it affected your priorities in training?
It hasn't really. If I do X, I try to do X, but with good connection to the ground, staying relaxed as possible (given that I've got a long way to go in that department).

Quote:
3: How do you feel you are regarded by the homegrown (never been elsewhere) students at a new club?
I'm not sure it really matters. I am sure it differs from place to place, also on when I'm there. Some days are better for me than others.

I did wrestling and kung fu / kickboxing in college, shotokan afterward, more kickboxing later, different styles of aikido, some Daito ryu (mainline and even less of another style of DR). They have all informed my base now (yoshinkan). The main problem I see is keeping things distinct and separate. Being very carefull as to what you let creep over, and when. Cross training on a regular basis is not for everyone, and I can understand that.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 08-25-2005, 02:40 PM   #4
justin
Location: swansea wales
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Re: Cross training attitude question

[1: Would you have judged that 2nd style differently knowing what you do now?
2: How has it affected your priorities in training?
3: How do you feel you are regarded by the homegrown (never been elsewhere) students at a new club?


How has it been for you so far?[/quote]


coming from a wado-karate background for almost ten years and starting aikido a month ago, i can answer this i think.

1. nope

2. It has opened my eyes to a more traditional martial art something i been long looking for, i practice in private my karate kata,s as i feel there a part of me, along with the basic moves i am learning in aikido, dont think you should ever lose sight of where you come from or where your going.
3. the students where told by my instructor that i had prior training and to be honest it stands out a mile anyway, the biggest thing that stands out is the level of attack when asked to punch chudan my years of training allows me to deliver the punch clean and swift without telegraphing it, this i felt my fellow students thought i was showing of, i now feel after getting to know me they understand is just the way i do things and is very hard to change, i am also graced with a very good dojo and the instructors take a lot of time with each students working through there strengths and weaknesses which i seem to have lots of in aikido.

ref how has it been for me so far,all i can say is its the best four hours out of my week by far.
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Old 08-29-2005, 02:59 AM   #5
Tim Ruijs
 
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Re: Cross training attitude question

I have changed styles twice (the first by necessity, the second by choice).

Quote:
Bridget Chung wrote:
1: Would you have judged that 2nd style differently knowing what you do now?
Most of the times one feels the 'other' style is inferior because what they are practicing now fits them better, i.e. meets their specific requirements of what they think 'good' Aikido is.
So it is not really about good or bad, but more about what you wish to achieve with Aikido practice.

Quote:
Bridget Chung wrote:
2: How has it affected your priorities in training?
You should be firmly aware of the reasons that put you on the tatami in the first place. These ultimately dictate your priorities in training. Do you train 'just to have fun'? Well, have fun! Do you train to become a teacher? Well, start thinking about why your teacher selects the exercises as he does? Do you agree with them? How would you go about it? Do you train to become the best? Do not do Aikido or change your competitive mind
Changing styles would give you focus, if and only if the change is by choice.

Quote:
Bridget Chung wrote:
3: How do you feel you are regarded by the homegrown (never been elsewhere) students at a new club?
The first time I changed styles was by necessity and was received cautiously by the 'new' teacher and students Gradually you find your place in the dojo and become part of the dojo Meanwhile I attended seminars of my current teacher because that style fit me better Over time it became clear I had to make a decision

When I choose my current style, this meant no training opportunities anymore (no teacher nearby ) and finally decided (with backing of my current teacher) to start my own dojo.

Quote:
Bridget Chung wrote:
How has it been for you so far?
Teaching is fun and fruitful

Conclusively, I think it is important to know why you want to practice Aikido and to what extend. This will help you in many ways.
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Old 08-29-2005, 10:09 AM   #6
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Re: Cross training attitude question

I train primarily in Ki Society but moonlight, with the permission of my head instructor, with an Aikikai dojo. Mainly this is greed, because they are both so much fun, and this way there are more classes available in a week....

After a particularly good seminar or class, I sometimes feel swept up in enthusiasm for whichever style it was, and question my commitment to the other. But this has happened enough times now, and in both directions, that I know it for what it is and don't worry about it too much.

My Aikikai friends have really stretched my ukemi and atemi skills, and for this I'm grateful. (They punched me in the nose a lot at first, but lately I even see that coming....) I still consider myself committed to Ki Society, but the ability to train elsewhere is a precious gift. I don't see them as in conflict, except when my little brain is inadequate to do them both justice, and that's about me, not about the styles.

The dark side of cross-training for me is not the confusion (I'm confused anyway, what's new?) but the temptation to use it to "prove myself"--can I really do this technique so that it works, or are my usual partners just humoring me? I haven't found this to be a good attitude on the mat--technique done with that intention tends to be done badly.

Mary Kaye
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Old 08-29-2005, 01:55 PM   #7
Budd
 
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Re: Cross training attitude question

1. Not really, I try to have an open mind about most things.

2. It made me realize that if I want to make progress in learning martial systems in my lifetime, that I can't really study 5 different things, with any degree of complexity, at the same time (YMMV).

3. It depends. There've been those that are happy to meet someone with a different background. There've been those that think less of you for having a different method of performing similar stuff. There are also those that want to test you in kata or randori, to validate their own feelings of adequacy.

Basically, my feeling on the matter is that, whatever dojo/school you're in, you're doing your utmost to perform the techniques/movements the way they're shown by the instructor. Anything else is, at the very least, disrespectful. If your only reason for being there is to show how good your stuff is, then, at the very least, you're just being a jerk (I've been on both sides of this one).

Now, having said that, I don't see an occaisional workout with friends/acquaintances from other styles/systems as really cross-training. I see it more as a learning lab where you get to try stuff out. I think the 'art' part of martial arts is where we get to find out things for ourselves, such as 1) Hey my nikkyo doesn't work if they move this way . . . 2) A single-leg takedown is not a good idea on someone that's twice my size AND knows how to sprawl . . .

That kind of thing . . . anyhow, it's finding stuff out like the above that makes it all the more fun for me (though I did slip last week when I was working boxing drills with MMA gloves and my partner tried to teach me a lesson about moving backward -- he came in tight and tried to clinch and rabbit-punch -- he was very surprised when I caught him with a guillotine choke).

Have fun figuring out what works best for you . . . and keep training.
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Old 08-29-2005, 02:03 PM   #8
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Cross training attitude question

Quote:
) A single-leg takedown is not a good idea on someone that's twice my size AND knows how to sprawl . . .
heh...I heard someone with the initials MT found this out at the last aiki-expo.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 08-29-2005, 02:15 PM   #9
Budd
 
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Re: Cross training attitude question

Oy, oy, my back . . . slip the jab!
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Old 08-29-2005, 02:25 PM   #10
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Cross training attitude question

Say, how long have you been at the Itten dojo? Have we trained together?

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 08-29-2005, 02:33 PM   #11
Budd
 
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Re: Cross training attitude question

Ron,

Sent you a PM.
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