Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Language

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-15-2002, 07:34 PM   #1
thomasgroendal
 
thomasgroendal's Avatar
Dojo: Hoshu Portland Dojo
Location: Portland, OR
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 53
United_States
Offline
translation of ki terms

Here is something I could use some help with.
I need Japanese translations for some english ki society terminology (or is it Aikido Association of America stuff I have, I don't know)
Unbendable arm
Weight underside
Leading
Particularly if you have the tools to reply to my in Japanese it would be helpful.
yours truly
Tom Groendal

Life is choice.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2002, 02:27 PM   #2
tedehara
 
tedehara's Avatar
Dojo: Evanston Ki-Aikido
Location: Evanston IL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 826
Offline
Ki Symbol Ki Terms

Hi Tom,

Sorry I can't help.
All my books are in English!
Maybe someone like Jun can help.

Take care,

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
About You
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2002, 02:44 PM   #3
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,847
Offline
Re: Ki Terms

Quote:
Originally posted by tedehara
Maybe someone like Jun can help.
I, too, don't have any of Tohei sensei's books in Japanese. I think my teacher had some of Tohei sensei's books in Japanese on his shelf at his house; I'll see if I can ask to borrow them sometime.

Chris (Li)? Do you have any of his books within arm's reach?

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2002, 03:31 PM   #4
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,075
United_States
Offline
Re: Re: Ki Terms

Quote:
Originally posted by akiy

I, too, don't have any of Tohei sensei's books in Japanese. I think my teacher had some of Tohei sensei's books in Japanese on his shelf at his house; I'll see if I can ask to borrow them sometime.

Chris (Li)? Do you have any of his books within arm's reach?

-- Jun
You can get some of the basic Japanese at http://www.ki-aikido.jp/indx_J.htm

Or, here are the 4 basic principles (if the Japanese shows up):

1、臍下の一点に心をしずめ統一する。
2、全身の力を完全に抜く。
3、身体の総ての部分の重みを、その最下のおく。
4、氣を出す。

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2002, 05:10 PM   #5
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,847
Offline
Re: Ki Terms

Thanks, Chris.

So, for the Japanese speakers out there, how would you translate Tohei sensei's four principles?

My take:
  1. Put the one point of your tanden into your spirit/heart (kokoro) and unify them.
  2. Completely take away the power/strength from your entire body.
  3. Put the heaviness of your entire body into its lowest parts.
  4. Put out/radiate ki.
It's the first time I've seen Tohei sensei's four principles of aikido in Japanese.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2002, 05:57 PM   #6
thomasgroendal
 
thomasgroendal's Avatar
Dojo: Hoshu Portland Dojo
Location: Portland, OR
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 53
United_States
Offline
Very cool,
Thanks a lot, my computer is Japanese, so I had no problem viewing the characters.
It is also interesting the difference between the direct translation and a more *western* translation.
For instance, Jun so accurately translated Put the one point of your tanden into your spirit/heart (kokoro) and unify them.
However, when explaining this to a westerner, I would probably change the order of the words to putting your whole spirit heart mind(kokoro) into your center. I am not sure if that is meaningful, and I doubt it is, but I am glad, anyway to have the translations, THANKS!
The other thing that occurs to me as I think about the Japanese is that I kind of prefer the english versions. It almost seems like the english has been translated into the Japanese, (which is unlikely, but not impossible.)
気を出す ki o dasu, seems sort of vague, where as extend ki gi gives an image of the focusing of ones ki, at least to me. Weight underside is just much shorter than 身体の総ての"分の重みを、その最下におく。 Which is odd considering the Japanese proficiency at chopping phrases into neat little packages.
In any case I have been teaching this stuff to Japanese people for the last year, and feeling like a chump saying the arm that doesn't bend, and feeling sure that there was something a little more "unbendable arm" out there. (it was orenaite)
Thanks for the HELP!
Now if I can just stop failing my own ki-tests...

Life is choice.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2002, 06:11 PM   #7
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,075
United_States
Offline
Re: Re: Ki Terms

Quote:
Originally posted by akiy
Thanks, Chris.

So, for the Japanese speakers out there, how would you translate Tohei sensei's four principles?
I'd say:

1) Calm your mind and unify it with the one point of your lower abdomen.
2) Completely remove the power from your entire body.
3) Put the weight of all parts of your body into their bottoms.
4) Send out Ki.

I tried hard not to look at Jun's translations before I did the above, so they may be a little bit different .

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2002, 06:14 PM   #8
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,075
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by thomasgroendal
It almost seems like the english has been translated into the Japanese, (which is unlikely, but not impossible.)
That's an interesting idea, because I've always wondered if the term "kiatsu" (also coined by K. Tohei) was specifically created for English speakers. The kanji for "kiatsu" mean "barometric pressure" (as in the weather), so most Japanese speakers just give you odd looks when you use the word. In English, on the other hand, it's easily understood as a variation of the word "shiatsu", which was trendy when Tohei started pushing the "kiatsu" stuff. Could well be wrong though...

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2002, 07:20 PM   #9
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,847
Offline
Re: Re: Re: Ki Terms

Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Li
I tried hard not to look at Jun's translations before I did the above, so they may be a little bit different .
Actually, they were pretty close!

I interpreted "shizume" differently; I like your interpretation better...

As far as your "kiatsu" hypothesis goes, I've wondered about that term, too. I'd have to bet that more than 99% of native Japanese speakers wouldn't define it to be the Ki Society healing method...

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2002, 07:32 PM   #10
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,075
United_States
Offline
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ki Terms

Quote:
Originally posted by akiy

Actually, they were pretty close!

I interpreted "shizume" differently; I like your interpretation better...
Thanks! There weren't any kanji, but it seemed to make sense from the context...

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ki energy defined Guest_779 General 111 08-16-2013 09:50 AM
Poll: If you could be uke for yourself, would you be able to throw yourself? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 72 08-07-2013 05:16 PM
Aikido and being Christian Nick Spiritual 178 07-31-2010 06:47 PM
Stanislavsky and Ki DaveO General 11 01-20-2006 10:11 AM
Train In Ki And Why chadsieger Training 54 06-15-2002 10:26 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:21 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate