Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Techniques

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-02-2008, 02:09 AM   #1
Marko Ilic
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 54
Offline
Confused Some technique...

I was wandering when I saw some yellow belts do some technique. They said that the technique was Iriminage but it looked nothing like Iriminage to me. I can only tell you how its don from Katatetori (right hand grabing right hand). You start by tenkan-ing away and putting your hand on his neck at the same time. And then instead of doing a "clothesline: kind of throw you just pull uke down.
Does anyone know if this is really Iriminage.

Thanks,
Marko
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 03:21 AM   #2
Nafis Zahir
 
Nafis Zahir's Avatar
Dojo: Bucks County Aikido
Location: Pennsylvania
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 425
United_States
Offline
Re: Some technique...

It may be that they call the technique Iriminage even though it's different from what youcall Iriminage.

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 06:39 AM   #3
Amir Krause
Dojo: Shirokan Dojo / Tel Aviv Israel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 643
Israel
Offline
Re: Some technique...

Japanese Technique names are not well defined.
With the little I have seen of Japan, different places use the same names for different things and different names for the same things.

It is even worse once you include us foreigners who have no understanding of Japanese, and apply those names...

Amir
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 07:30 AM   #4
Carsten Möllering
 
Carsten Möllering's Avatar
Dojo: Hildesheimer Aikido Verein
Location: Hildesheim
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 848
Germany
Offline
Re: Some technique...

Hi,

If I get it right position is not (gyaku hanmi) katate dori but ai hanmi katate dori? (right hand grabs right hand) Many styles use "katate dori" for left hand grabs right hand.

And it is not only tenkan but irimi tenkan? nage does one step forward and then turns, left hand on ukes neck.

And then cuts uke down. (It's not pulling.)

If that is correct, the technique ist called "ushiro kiri otoshi" or aswell "chokusen irimi nage". The third form of irimi nage:

En no irimi: irimi nage with tenkan, irimi nage ura
Sankaku no irimi: steps like in tenchi nage, irimi nage omote
Chokusen no irimi: irimi nage on direct line, ushiro kiri otoshi

Carsten
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 10:35 AM   #5
patf
Location: California
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 48
United_States
Offline
Re: Some technique...

We do a version which sounds very similar though we call it a Kokyunage variation.
In my understanding an arm must enter towards Uke's head/neck (on the final throw) to be classified as irimi-nage.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 07:18 PM   #6
Tim Griffiths
Dojo: Nes Ziona Aikikai
Location: Suzhou, China
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 188
China
Offline
Re: Some technique...

Quote:
I was wandering when I saw some yellow belts do some technique. They said that the technique was Iriminage but it looked nothing like Iriminage to me.
That's normal. When I wander around the mat what the yellow belts are doing doesn't normally look like what they're meant to be doing either

In Ki Society dojos there's a quite common form of iriminage similar to the ushiro kiri otoshi that Carsten described - although they'd probably call it something like katate kosadori ushiro irimi kokyunage rather than iriminage.

The iriminage [lit: Entering Throw] name comes from the entering movement of the body to take the balance and make the throw, a 'clothesline' movement isn't needed. Ironically this 'taking the balance with the body' part is often the most neglected.

Train well,

Tim

If one makes a distinction between the dojo and the battlefield, or being in your bedroom or in public, then when the time comes there will be no opportunity to make amends. (Hagakure)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 01:08 AM   #7
Marko Ilic
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 54
Offline
Re: Some technique...

And it is not only tenkan but irimi tenkan? nage does one step forward and then turns, left hand on ukes neck.

Carsten[/quote]

This is the ai hanmi katatetori.we do it like this:first you tenkan to uke's back and put your left hand on your uke's head simultaneously. Next you bring uke's head to your shoulder and then do the clothesline kinda throwing with a step inward.

But this other Iriminage follows the same principles as the one above but instead of doing the clothesline you cut him down. The pin is putting uke's arm on your knee (you're in a half standing position) and pull his arm down like you're gonna break it and choke the uke with the other arm.

Thanks anyway.


P.S. I dunno how to quote.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 10:15 AM   #8
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,964
Offline
Re: Some technique...

I was taught this as an iriminage variation (you are entering, its an irimi, regardless of the tenkan) and have seen it taught at dojos from various styles.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 11:05 AM   #9
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: Some technique...

Isn't it that Irimi Nage is instead a collection of techniques instead of a single one? I mean, all of these are Irimi Nage for me:

* [Shomen] Irimi Nage Omote / Mukae Daoshi: Sankaku Irimi,
* [Shomen] Irimi Nage Ura: En no Irimi,
* Ushiro Kiri Otoshi / Ushiro Kata Otoshi: Chokusen no Irimi,
* Shokumen Irimi Nage / Ura Mukae Daoshi,
* Obi Otoshi,
* Shomen Ate / Ago Ate Nage: Chokusen no Irimi,
* Gedan Ate / Do Gaeshi: Chokusen no Irimi,
* Aiki Otoshi / Sukui Nage,
* Aiki Nage,
* etc...

Most probably I'm wrong, though...
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 11:42 AM   #10
patf
Location: California
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 48
United_States
Offline
Re: Some technique...

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
I was taught this as an iriminage variation (you are entering, its an irimi, regardless of the tenkan) and have seen it taught at dojos from various styles.
Surely there are a multitude of kokyunage that involve entering but are not classed as irimi nage. It seems to me that the part of irimi nage that irimi refers to is not the entering, rather the finishing. For example sokumen-irimi nage can be done without the initial entering, from Yokumen strike, nage blends with striking arm while stepping back, bringing uke parallel to nage and breaking balance, and then entering across uke's face with free arm in the form of sai-yu-undo.

Just a thought.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 12:08 PM   #11
Mark Stokmans
Dojo: Utrecht
Location: Driebergen
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 25
Netherlands
Offline
Re: Some technique...

Quote:
Marko Ilic wrote: But this other Iriminage follows the same principles as the one above but instead of doing the clothesline you cut him down. The pin is putting uke's arm on your knee (you're in a half standing position) and pull his arm down like you're gonna break it and choke the uke with the other arm.
This sounds more like kubijime than irimi nage.

Last edited by Mark Stokmans : 12-03-2008 at 12:11 PM.

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 03:13 PM   #12
Russ Q
Dojo: Shohei Juku Aikido Gibsons
Location: Gibsons BC
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 193
Canada
Offline
Re: Some technique...

Wouldn't any technique where you enter and throw be classified as irmi nage? It could be kokyu nage too (for example) but generally being called one thing doesn't negate it from also being another....y'know:-).

Russ
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2008, 02:53 AM   #13
Carsten Möllering
 
Carsten Möllering's Avatar
Dojo: Hildesheimer Aikido Verein
Location: Hildesheim
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 848
Germany
Offline
Re: Some technique...

Quote:
Marko Ilic wrote: View Post
The pin is putting uke's arm on your knee (you're in a half standing position) and pull his arm down like you're gonna break it and choke the uke with the other arm.
Ok, you made it clear.

The pin, you describe is the regular finish of every form of irimi nage (if you finish it with a pin) as it is taught in our Aikido Tradition. It is most used in tanto dori, jo dori and tachi dori.
But you can also use it in tachi waza tai jutsu. In suwari waza the position of nage is kneeling, not half standing. And the pin is done on the inner leg.

The technique you decribe is called "ushiro kiri otoshi". We seldom use it from ai hanmi. More often we do it from ushiro katate dori or chudan tsuki.

I cited the three regular forms of irimi nage above. chokusen irimi nage or just irimi nage is not frequently used as name of this technique. It is an elder term. You can find it in books with Shirata Rinjiro (John Stevens).

In our aikido there is one form of this technique where it is not called ushiro kiri otoshi but irimi nage. You can see it in this video - which doesn't show our line of aikido but this form of irimi nage - at 0:35.

Carsten
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2008, 06:29 AM   #14
mickeygelum
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
mickeygelum's Avatar
Dojo: Warren Budokan, Ohio USA
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 502
United_States
Offline
Re: Some technique...

Greetings,

Ushiro Kubi Gatame is what I have known it to be called.

Train well,

Mickey
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2008, 03:16 PM   #15
Marko Ilic
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 54
Offline
Re: Some technique...

I did a similar(same) technique now in suwari-waza from ryotetori. It starts by nage twisting (?) his hands and doing a tenchinage kind of throwing. The pin is to put one arm on your knee (more exactly one elbow) and leaning on the uke's other shoulder. Is this THE TECHNIQUE ?

Thank you
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2008, 04:00 PM   #16
Peter Bowyer
 
Peter Bowyer's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 12
Offline
Re: Some technique...

The way I understand it is that Iriminage simply means 'entering throw' so regardless how uke is thrown, you still entered (irimi) and threw (nage). It's a variation.

Also, wouldn't right hand grabbing right hand be kosadori (crosshand grab)?

When you bow deeply to the Universe, it bows back. - Morihei Ueshiba
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2008, 07:23 PM   #17
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: Some technique...

Quote:
Peter Bowyer wrote: View Post
Also, wouldn't right hand grabbing right hand be kosadori (crosshand grab)?
Again, it depends on your school. We will say dosokutedori.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Cool Rain Productions - Since 1976, the exclusive source for "Aikido in Training" Book/DVD Series



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Correlation of Aikido and Daito-Ryu Waza John Driscoll Columns 28 08-04-2013 06:01 PM
effectivness of technique Mary Eastland General 61 07-07-2008 10:33 AM
Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward Red Beetle General 358 10-10-2006 12:43 PM
Counter Techniques Roger Evans Techniques 74 03-15-2005 03:52 PM
What are you working on? akiy Training 15 06-29-2000 11:52 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:39 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate