sparring with a karateka

Steven Wohlwend wrote: when he attacks, i evade backwards, hoping that he will then attack me with an overstretched-punch.

Well, there is your first mistake. Does your aikido teacher tell you to evade backwards?

Try this next time. When your opponent makes to punch, slip it to either the inside or outside and strike him in the face with your near-side hand. You might strike, but he might block. If he blocks, apply ikkyo or similar to the arm.

Let me know how it goes.

Regards,

Jorgen Matsi wrote: All the "defensive" and "reactive" techniques Aikido has are meant against commited attacks..

Maybe the way you train.

I see my job in aikido to be provoking an expected response from my opponent to which I have a tree of possibilities pre-programmed so that I am always forcing him to *react* to me.

The simplist and most direct...and the first that we teach...is sticking an attack in uke's face and working with what you get. If he doesn't block, well, GREAT, open the hand, continue to drive it through and throw him with it. If he does block, then, GREAT, do ikkyo, nikyo, etc. on the arm or use the combative tempo gained to slip into shikaku and do whatever. He does something else, GREAT, regroup and try again.

The strategy is no different than that I learned...was not taught...when I did karate many years ago.

I also like your idea of grappling and throwing the partner...perhaps with sutemiwaza. We do this almost every class. I find that nikyo, sankyo, ude garame (which we use as a throw oftentimes) and juji garame often develop. I think these are most useful to people in which tachiwaza is their primary mode while newaza is their secondary. That doesn't address how they'll learn the basics of newaza (eliminate space and make them carry your weight). I hoping that at some point someone that has very significant skill in newaza will join the dojo so that I can wrangle them into teaching.

Regards,

Gregg,

Pardon my lack of Alabama Geography. If you are close to Huntsville we have some good teachers up there that are great at ne waza. Our other school in Tusc. works on it a little bit, but, not as much as our Huntsville dojo.

This is offtopic but somehow I remember that when I joined this forum couple of years ago noone spoke so much of Newaza within Aikido context... most believed that keeping the fight standing up is very easy...

Greg... how do you do this provoking? I know in theory it is easy to lure your opponent into overcommited pattern that you expect. In practice I've seen noone under 10 years of practice and nidan who at least looked like he/she could do something like that.

My fighting experiences say to me that you can only count on what you do. Never on what you think your opponent will.

I'm really not trying to provoke but I'm really curious...

Robert Cheshire wrote: Gregg, Pardon my lack of Alabama Geography. If you are close to Huntsville we have some good teachers up there that are great at ne waza. Our other school in Tusc. works on it a little bit, but, not as much as our Huntsville dojo.

Huntsville, unfortunately, is 200 miles North of Montgomery.

I work for Lockheed and there is a good chance that I'll be stationed in HSV sometime in the future. If so, I'll look up the YAB guys.

Best,

Jorgen Matsi wrote: This is offtopic but somehow I remember that when I joined this forum couple of years ago noone spoke so much of Newaza within Aikido context... most believed that keeping the fight standing up is very easy...

I think it's preferable for someone that practices aikido (or karate) but that it's wishful thinking to think that it's easy or will never happen. So, I train for it.

Jorgen Matsi wrote: Greg... how do you do this provoking?

I gave one example previously. It's just like a boxing combination.

Another standard way is to offer them something they see as an opening but which is really a trap. Like dropping the front hand, shoulder to give them an opening for a hook. Or seeming to offer a clinch, but being set up to go for leg as soon as the start to buy it.

Jorgen Matsi wrote: I know in theory it is easy to lure your opponent into overcommited pattern that you expect. In practice I've seen noone under 10 years of practice and nidan who at least looked like he/she could do something like that.

All my instructors have emphasized not taking my opponents for granted. So, I don't count on anything being easy. I count on studying more, training harder and therefore being better prepared.

Maybe the folks that are taking 10 years to look decent are doing so not because the concepts are missing but but due to an less-than-optimal pedagogical method.

Jorgen Matsi wrote: My fighting experiences say to me that you can only count on what you do. Never on what you think your opponent will.

I boxed, wrestled and did karate in my younger days. All three, but especially the boxing, emphasized combinations. In a combination, you really expect your opponent to block (or attempt to block) the first or even the first and second shot. In fact, I'll commit and say that I never expected the first shot to land.

The BJJ guys that I've talked strategy with tell me that they do the same thing. That they feint, bait and trap just the way every other martial art does.

A quote from an article I was reading the other day comes to mind: "Left hook, left hook, left hook, shoot". Sure sounds like he's setting the guy up to me. That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.

So, it really comes down to the same thing...how much work does the artist put into their art.

FWIW,

I agree that taking his balance is the key to your scenario. I think it is easier to take his balance while he is in a transition state, while he is performing the tsuki. If you have to wait until he is on both feet you will have to use atemi. Be creative. Atemi doesn't have to be a strike, just something to distract him long enough that you are in the position you need to be.