sparring with a karateka
i spar almost every weekend with a karateka friend of mine.
he mostly attacks with oi-tsuki and mae-geri and i try to defend myself with aikido it really helps my aikido.its also very fun and interessting to do. try it! :D well, but here is my problem: last time i wanted to focus on using ikkiyo and iriminage aggainst his oi-tsuki i had problems using ikkiyo because he would follow with a second tsuki when i would grabe him iriminage worked kind of well except that i was too far away from him after entering, so that i would have to take a step to throw him i also had problems throwing him because he was standing too good any ideas what i can do better next time? thanks |
Re: sparring with a karateka
When he strikes, step off line and atemi to the face. When he blocks his face, perform ikkyo on the blocking hand. Of course, if he doesn't block, you get to experience the joy of hitting him in the face ;)
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Re: sparring with a karateka
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enter more on the first with timing and a tsuki of your own that precludes your partners second tsuki (as mentioned), ikkyo or iriminage (or anything else appropriate for that matter) the second tsuki, find more subtle solutions like block the 2nd tsuki with the first hand (anything else that is appropriate). Quote:
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Keep training, have fun, be safe. |
Re: sparring with a karateka
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Re: sparring with a karateka
Why do you wait for him to initiate?
Regards, |
Re: sparring with a karateka
I agree with Chad in that you need more empahsis in getting his balance. That is what would interupt the second tsuki. And... rather than use the omote or frontal form of ikkyo, I would go to the rear (ura). This too would help take his balance and would better use the force of his attack in with your technique.
... that is, if I'm understanding your story. Get off line Take his balance Maintain a good ma ai Good luck! |
Re: sparring with a karateka
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Wow i'm in an evil mood today -Nathan |
Re: sparring with a karateka
By now you are probably always standing in the same place when he attacks...getting ready to do your 'counter'.
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Re: sparring with a karateka
I realize your focus is ikkyo, but when he goes for the second strike switch to Juji nage! with a large ten ken... Though be careful you don't use too much power Juji nage can result in serious damage if your friend doesn't know how to breakfall..
Ryan |
Re: sparring with a karateka
Dear Friends,
Sorry to 'hijack' your thread for a little while. I just don't know where to put this and i don't think this is necessary to start a new thread. A couple of weeks ago I saw one of the best jiyu waza to date. Two fellow dojo mates of mine, one, a san-dan aikidoka and also an accomplised kalaripayat practitioner, the other a nidan aikidoka and also a TKD instructor from another state. It was after class, as I was folding my dogi, these two players started some light randori. But within seconds, they both start to go at each other for real. I can feel that they were not holding back. They were at each other doing also henka waza (counter techniques). it was beautiful because it was so fluid, dynamic and unrehearsed. The reason I mention that they are also experience practitioner of other art is because during their attack they also employed non-traditional attack and techniques, such as leg sweeps, knee locks/twist. I also notice that the TKD practitoner did not employed their traditional high kicks. I guess if he does, he would be at most disadvantaged. The kalaripayat player was very ground oriented, going very often at lower region of the body (e.g., ankle and knee) One very beautiful counter was when the kalaripayat guy did a kotageshi, the uke flip, then grab the arm of the shite and immediately executed a stomach throw. It was most unexpected, brilliantly executed. The two players held all our attention for about 2 - 3 minutes. In the end, it was applause all around. It was just so unexpectedly real and beautiful. Thanks for reading this. Boon. |
Re: sparring with a karateka
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Chudan mawashi geri off his back leg is really nice to blend with accompanied by scooping him up bodily and dumping him on floor, while taking out his supporting leg. It's easy to throw a karateka with that, I've done it loads of times and been on the receiving end of it. And you can easily follow him down to pin him or make like you're going to punch him in the nethers, which is always a laugh! |
Re: sparring with a karateka
First, initiate the attack if at all possible. Yokomen uchi to the neck or shomen to the head in attempt to get a block repsonse from uke, then do ikkyo.
To throw, examine where the feet of the opponent are. If they have a very 'stable' posture it is likely they plant their feet. Direction of throw should be perpendicular to a line drawn between their feet. However needs to be quick enough or changeable enough to allow for them compensating with their feet movement. A very simple technique from solid attacks is just to enter deeply and quickly, with irimi-tenkan so you are behind them and choke them out. Very under-utilised. (P.S. I accept no responsbilitity for damage or death as a result of this technique). Ian |
Re: sparring with a karateka
thank you for all your replies!
im gonna kick his A$$ next saturday and show him what the ultimate Martial Art is! :D have a nice day |
Re: sparring with a karateka
Steve,
I think the above suggestions are good, but I would also add when he tsuki's don't attack his fist. Go higher towards his elbow because he is most likely retracting. But be committed whether his second punch is coming or not. If you commit to your tenshin ikkyo movement (for example) his punch even if landed won't have a substantial impact. Always expect to get hit, just minimize the damage, if possible. My 2cents. |
Re: sparring with a karateka
Wow! And people said "what is the ultimate art" is a timeless and impossible question...I greatly anticipate your resolution to this quandry!
By the way, Boon, I loved your post. I felt I could really see it happening. It sounded like a wonderful sight to see. One of my best aikido memories is doing "blending practice" with someone from a different style of aikido. Uke/nage would trade often; we just kind of flowed together, taking control if we spotted vulnerability. It wasn't competitive, however, at least not in spirit. It just seemed "natural." We did this for what must have been 15-20 minutes, and it was a great experience. I should try to repeat it sometime. |
Re: sparring with a karateka
Just remember, as you initiate your new moves and demolish your buddy: Smile! Remember, we love our enemies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: sparring with a karateka
By the way, which lesson your karateka friend is taking?
Loosing always? Very good friend! Perhaps can you (or your friend) explain "sparring with an aikidoka"? I think both arts have their weak side... |
Re: sparring with a karateka
i followed your advices, so things got a bit better.
But im still not happy yet. i also noticed an other problem, its about the speed of the battle. Im not able to any aikido moves aggainst the karateka because its all to fast for me. I ve also trained with my brother who does muay-thai, there the speed is even faster than karate, and here i has even more problems than fighting the karateka. do you have any advice how i can slower the battle, or how i should deal with highspeed battles? thank you |
Re: sparring with a karateka
Are you letting him initiate or are you dictating the course of events to him?
Regards, |
Re: sparring with a karateka
we spar freely
i dont tell him what im exactly going to do, but he knows that im trying to do aikido. the fight is in this style: first i provoke him with jabs to attack me when he attacks, i evade backwards, hoping that he will then attack me with an overstretched-punch. but everytime he overstreches i m to far away or he finds his balance right away but the overstrechted-punches are rare. instead he covers the distant with a second punch which forces me to step back again the whole thing continues until backed up to the wall what can i do to prevent this? |
Re: sparring with a karateka
Hi Steven,
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What is your experience (skill) in aikido versus his experience in karate? Have you done karate before (to a certain level) to understand the essentials of the art? Is your friend a competitive karate fighter? Except for the last question, if your answers to the above are in negatives, then you have a lot of mat time to catch up on to turn those answers to positives. You are lucky in the sense that you have a karateka friend to spar with. I suggest that before the sparring, get your friend to do a set of kata; observe his posture, his timing and rhythm of the attacks (punches & kicks) and the blocks, then you will realize the difference between the karate attacks and the attacks adopted in an aikido class. The karate tries not to telegraph his attacks. One way of reading his intention(s) is to focus on the "launching pads" of the punches or kicks - meaning certain parts of his body need to move before the punch or kick reaches you. Free your mind, forget about techniques, just move half a step (either irimi or tenkan or both), do not allow him space to kick you. Keep moving during his attacks, find or create an opening, your technique will come naturally. Think like a karate, strike when you see an opening. Your maai, timing and footwork are essential. Dance with him, the key is to break his rhythm. Regards David |
Re: sparring with a karateka
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Don't back up -- evade while entering. If you enter properly he won't be able to hit you with the second punch -- you will be able to take his balance instead. Think deflect and move in -- use triangular footwork. Let us know how it works, =wl |
Re: sparring with a karateka
It might help to "control" the attack. Decide what would be the best way to do your technique then leave an opening in the area his arm or leg would need to be. Be sure to cover all the other spots. If you enter slightly with these openings it's almost natural to attack them.
I would also suggest that you don't keep one throw in mind. Throw with what presents itself. I've found that ashi waza and koshi waze techniques work well in these type of sparring (for me anyway). If lucky - the occasional sutemi works. The key though is to control the attack (speed and location of thier strikes). |
Re: sparring with a karateka
Well now we have come to the most obvious "weak" point of Aikido. All the "defensive" and "reactive" techniques Aikido has are meant against commited attacks. And anyone who has been into sportfighting of any kind and is an intelligent fighter does not give you any (at least not in a sparring situation). Not the karate-friend and Muay Thai guy nontheless.
As they are both strikers there's 2 easy solutions: take them down or go to clinch and beat/take them down from there. How much "Aikido" you can find in both those two solutions is another question. |
Re: sparring with a karateka
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Going backwards is difficult to control if you have an attacker who is strong. If you get backed against a wall, block and counter or break to the side or even attack. If they're going to jab it's highly likely their shoulder will drop or their elbow twitches slightly before. "Sparring is like jazz music; you have to manipulate the rythmn" - some previous karate instructor I forget who. To anyone in the UK "Sparring is like making love to a beautiful woman..." :D |
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