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Old 10-21-2002, 04:49 AM   #1
aries admin
Dojo: Aikikai Philippines
Location: Philippines
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 34
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Another Friendly Sparring

Had a friendly training with a Jujitsu practioner last week. It was a fun and a learning exprience for both us. Punches not included, my sparring partner had a hard time trying to put me down to the ground where he is comfortable. Kokyunage, and Iriminage are really effective. I had a good time with kotegaishi too, once he got hold of my arm it was easy for me to execute the the technique. He was suprised with pin after kotegaishi.

Trying to pin him on the ground is another story. I was a little slow in doing ikkyo and nikkyo pins and I learned the hard way NEVER to that with a trained ground combatant.He was able to get out during the process of pinning him. This put me on the grounnd twice (one for ikkyo and the other for nikkyo). He pinned me, I TAPPED.


I have several success with Shihonage my partner didn't know what hit him.

After several tries he was able to put me on the ground. On the ground I am helpless .I have a limited ground experience (compared to him)

Over all it was a good training. Learned not to be slow (contrary to the dojo practice) in doing the pins. Need to be fast against a very good opponent who keeps on trying to put me down.

On the other hand my partner learned that it was not easy to put down an Aikidoka. He also learned not to grab the hands after that.




Next month I will go against a Muay Thai.
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Old 10-21-2002, 05:46 AM   #2
gasman
 
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Dojo: Sunyata
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sparring with ppl from other styles is always fun. good luck with the muay thai that's going to be a hard nut to crack (hint: get past his legs)

never had the pleasure of going against a jiujitsuka but my flatmate used to be a blackbelt in tae kwon do. he also studied aikido with me for a while so the foundation for interesting sparring is there.

sparring with a puching/kicking stylist requires you to do at least atemi, I have to combine my skills to even get into the close zone on my flatmate. this means punching, blocking and kicking.

He seldom grabs me, so what I try to do is to parry his punches and grab hold of his wrists and try some aikido lock or throw.

what has proven most effective is to throw myself down and go for his standing leg with my own feet and either roll or try and apply yonkyo on his ankle, if he escapes I can always do ukemi to get back on my feet.

Have fun!
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Old 10-21-2002, 09:00 AM   #3
SeiserL
 
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Location: Florida Gulf coast
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Yep, many benefits of training outside the style. IMHO, a lot of system work against people who have never seen that move or trained against it. The wider the range of exposure to other systems, the more chance we have to actually counter them.

Sounds like you had a good time. Compliments.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 10-21-2002, 05:17 PM   #4
Diablo
Dojo: International Aikido Association
Location: Ft. Worth, Texas
Join Date: May 2002
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Congrats. I applaud everyone who spar with others outside of the dojo, especially when it's sparring with someone who practices another style. One gets tired of reading threads that begin with "Will Aikido work against ________." (fill in the blank) or "Which style works better on the street, Aikido or _______." (fill in the blank). Instead of proposing different hypothesies or speculations, find a willing sparring partner and have at it. Both of you benefit from the experience and you learn from each other. You also find out that what works with an oliging partner in the dojo may have to be modified for practical purposes. And for those who prefer to dwell on the negative, you'll learn that even though Aikido has its weaknesses, so do all the other arts.

It's all about connection.

Diablo
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Old 10-21-2002, 11:33 PM   #5
darin
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 375
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Re: Another Friendly Sparring

Quote:
Aries Navy (aries admin) wrote:
Had a friendly training with a Jujitsu practioner last week. It was a fun and a learning exprience for both us. Punches not included, my sparring partner had a hard time trying to put me down to the ground where he is comfortable. Kokyunage, and Iriminage are really effective. I had a good time with kotegaishi too, once he got hold of my arm it was easy for me to execute the the technique. He was suprised with pin after kotegaishi.

Trying to pin him on the ground is another story. I was a little slow in doing ikkyo and nikkyo pins and I learned the hard way NEVER to that with a trained ground combatant.He was able to get out during the process of pinning him. This put me on the grounnd twice (one for ikkyo and the other for nikkyo). He pinned me, I TAPPED.

I have several success with Shihonage my partner didn't know what hit him.

After several tries he was able to put me on the ground. On the ground I am helpless .I have a limited ground experience (compared to him)

Over all it was a good training. Learned not to be slow (contrary to the dojo practice) in doing the pins. Need to be fast against a very good opponent who keeps on trying to put me down.

On the other hand my partner learned that it was not easy to put down an Aikidoka. He also learned not to grab the hands after that.



Next month I will go against a Muay Thai.
If you want to pin someone who is resisting or trying to escape, its best to throw with more force than usual. The idea is to wind your opponent or get his head to hit the mat (not too hard). I know its nasty but it does get the job done. With ikkyo, try taking out his knee. This will cause him to drop to the ground allowing you to control the arm. Nikkyo is a little harder unless grabs your shoulder. That way you can use your weight.

Anyway these things work for me. But I have found the best way is not to let my opponent grab me. Like you said about iriminage and kokyunage. They are very effective.
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Old 10-21-2002, 11:45 PM   #6
Ja'E
Dojo: Damansara Aikido Dojo
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Good experience, as you get different learning experience. don't forget about your maai in your training, i find it very helpful in the cross training with other principle. anyway, good luck with your training
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Old 10-22-2002, 05:50 AM   #7
ian
 
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Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
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I'd agree that sparring is useful to learn counters, but it isn't particularly useful once they learn what techniques you are going to do 'cos then it becomes a match in which you're expecting them to do certain techniques, and not others. What we've done before is actually have mixed martial arts training weekends where differnt martial arts get together and train and discuss different techniques and responses.

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 10-22-2002, 11:00 AM   #8
Greg Jennings
Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
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We have wrestlers, jujutsuka and karateka in our dojo. Sometimes it gets out of hand .

My experience has been that the modern finishing position of ikkyo and the transition from the second to final pinning position of nikyo omote are problematic.

OTOH, I've found the intermedate pinning position of ikkyo and nikyo to be very effective in pinning them.

The "intermediate position" is as follows:

o Your inside knee down but your outside knee up.

o Your inside foot should be up on the toes (i.e., keiza not seiza), your outside foot should be flat on the sole.

o Your outside shin should be vertical and your outside thigh parallel to the mat.

o Your overall position should be turned a little toward uke.

o Keep your inside hand firmly grasped around uke's elbow and your outside hand around the back of their hand (for the x-dori and tsuki attacks) or wrist (the x-uchi attacks).

In that position, rather than go on down to the finished ikkyo position, stay up and use uke's arm as a spear, plunging it into the mat. The more vertical, the better.

Uke, even very flexible ones, have trouble getting out of this pin. For the folks not on the "Left Coast" there is, of course, also the threat of breaking their elbow.

There are also possibilities of nage pinning uke's arm in the fold of his thigh and having both hands free to apply handcuffs or whatever.

If you can get a copy of The Founder's book "Budo" or Aikido Journal's remake with Morihiro Saito Sensei, you'll see some of the positions I'm speaking of and the older, more effective version of the ikkyo pin.

Best Regards,

Last edited by Greg Jennings : 10-22-2002 at 11:07 AM.

Greg Jennings
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Old 10-24-2002, 01:13 AM   #9
aries admin
Dojo: Aikikai Philippines
Location: Philippines
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Thank you all for the replies and advice. BTW my sparring partner enrolled in our Aikido class. Probably he liked what he saw during the friendly sparring.
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