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Old 03-02-2013, 06:43 AM   #1
Deppart
Location: Athens
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Greece
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Question Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Hello members of AikiWeb!

I'll try to be as brief as possible.Im a male,24 years old and i have just started learning Aikido in a local dojo in Athens,Greece.My sensei is 4th Dan,student of Tissie.

I have been living a very unhealthy lifestyle in the past 5-6 years,sitting most of the time studying or watching TV,internet etc.I never paid any attention to what i was eating,i am a smoker and i always have 3-4 drinks in a week.I guess the only good physical trait that i have is a normal weight of 75kg with 183cm height.

I was fed up watching my physical strength and stamina deteriorate and in the last 2 years i think it has also had a mental effect,contributing to a constant feeling of boredom and mild depression.At first a thought i should start visitng a gym but then,knowing a bit about myself,i was sure that that kind of "training for the sake of training" would be uninteresting and i would quit.

So i researched martial arts,at first thinking i wont be suitable because i have a genuine dislike for violence,but then i saw Aikido!I found it extremely beautiful and i also read a few things about its creator and its philosophy which made it even more beautiful in my eyes.

So here i am,after my first training yesterday where i did seiza and ukemi and my knees ache,my buttocks are extremely sore,my abdominal muscles the same,the front of my feet the same,my legs the same,my back the same and both my shoulders are bruised at the exact same spot making even a slight pressure on them quite painfull!

To be honest i loved it! I felt alive after exiting the dojo! But im a bit nervous about my bodys condition.Are these results normal?Should i get bruised sometimes to learn?Will the pain go away before my next training on Monday,then Wednesday,then Friday etc?I mean,if try to do Ukemi now with my nonexistent technique,i'll want to scream from pain!

I am not afraid of some punishment or some pain,i only ask these questions to know what i should and shouldnt do,to always be able to train and get the most out of it.

I thank anyone who took the time to read this in advance!Any advice is much aprecciated!
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:15 AM   #2
tlk52
Dojo: Aikido of Park Slope/NY Aikikai
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

some discomfort and muscle soreness is completely normal
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:25 AM   #3
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Quote:
John Chrisoulis wrote: View Post
Hello members of AikiWeb!

I'll try to be as brief as possible.Im a male,24 years old and i have just started learning Aikido in a local dojo in Athens,Greece.My sensei is 4th Dan,student of Tissie.

I have been living a very unhealthy lifestyle in the past 5-6 years,sitting most of the time studying or watching TV,internet etc.I never paid any attention to what i was eating,i am a smoker and i always have 3-4 drinks in a week.I guess the only good physical trait that i have is a normal weight of 75kg with 183cm height.

I was fed up watching my physical strength and stamina deteriorate and in the last 2 years i think it has also had a mental effect,contributing to a constant feeling of boredom and mild depression.At first a thought i should start visitng a gym but then,knowing a bit about myself,i was sure that that kind of "training for the sake of training" would be uninteresting and i would quit.

So i researched martial arts,at first thinking i wont be suitable because i have a genuine dislike for violence,but then i saw Aikido!I found it extremely beautiful and i also read a few things about its creator and its philosophy which made it even more beautiful in my eyes.

So here i am,after my first training yesterday where i did seiza and ukemi and my knees ache,my buttocks are extremely sore,my abdominal muscles the same,the front of my feet the same,my legs the same,my back the same and both my shoulders are bruised at the exact same spot making even a slight pressure on them quite painfull!

To be honest i loved it! I felt alive after exiting the dojo! But im a bit nervous about my bodys condition.Are these results normal?Should i get bruised sometimes to learn?Will the pain go away before my next training on Monday,then Wednesday,then Friday etc?I mean,if try to do Ukemi now with my nonexistent technique,i'll want to scream from pain!

I am not afraid of some punishment or some pain,i only ask these questions to know what i should and shouldnt do,to always be able to train and get the most out of it.

I thank anyone who took the time to read this in advance!Any advice is much aprecciated!
Dear John,
If you have not been active for some time after exercise I would expect you to have some muscle ache.
However you have to be sensible.Do not over exert yourself.Build up your capacity to train slowly and surely.
Pay close attention to detail, see clear;y what is being shown by the teacher.
As far as Athens is concerned I have a number of fellow aikidoka who have classes/teach there.Good luck with the training. Cheers, Joe
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:27 PM   #4
Dan Richards
 
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Hey, John, welcome. What's you're experiencing is pretty typical for people, especially guys, in their mid-twenties, after they've been out on their own for a for years. The diet is mostly carbohydrates - pizza, pasta, cake, etc. - and not a lot of real nutrition. Get some more protein and fats, many with no carbs - meats, cheese, eggs, cream. Get at least some veggies, especially dark green leafy, and some tomatoes. A Greek salad is good stuff. : ) And take a multi-vitamin. If you can eat rice and beans a couple of times a week, that combination contains all the amino acids (proteins) that the body doesn't produce.

3-4 drinks a week can actually be healthier than no drinks. So, enjoy yourself. What you're dealing with is more of a vitamin and mineral deficiency - which is one of the reasons you're bruising more easily. It also account for the mild depression you've experienced. And it's very typical for people your age. What's also typical at your age, is that you start feeling the effects of being sedentary and a crap diet, and you clue in to the idea that it's time to do something about it.

The rest of it is just because a lot of the movements are new, and you're moving inefficiently. Take it easy, and give your body time to repair between training. 2-3 times a week is perfect in the beginning.

Good to see you discovered aikido - which can keep you body, as well as your mind, nice and active. You'll also notice as you use your body more in the trainings, that your desire for different foods will change. Start by looking at food more as "fuel" and get the right kinds. Listen to your body. It's surprisingly intelligent, and will give you cravings and signal you to eat different foods at different times. Listen to it.

Good luck in your aikido journey, and the exploration of new levels of your life.

Dan Richards - Aiki Research

"Budo must always reflect its surroundings. If it isn't newer and stronger, it isn't valid." - Shoji Nishio
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Old 03-02-2013, 04:58 PM   #5
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Onegaishimasu, if you train once a week no matter what, you will build up a practice
and you won't be sorry.
In gassho,

Mark

- Right combination works wonders -
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:56 PM   #6
hughrbeyer
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Sounds about exactly right to me, for after a first day. Wouldn't really be much better if you were in shape.

Evolution doesn't prove God doesn't exist, any more than hammers prove carpenters don't exist.
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:24 PM   #7
Dan Richards
 
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
Sounds about exactly right to me, for after a first day. Wouldn't really be much better if you were in shape.
That's a good point, Hugh. I think it's more a matter of initially being surprised that you're getting your ass kicked. And then the surprise of acceptance, and then the sheer enjoyment of getting your ass kicked.
Quote:
John Chrisoulis wrote: View Post
To be honest i loved it! I felt alive after exiting the dojo!
John, I think you've already got the bug. You'll fit right in.

Last edited by Dan Richards : 03-02-2013 at 10:26 PM.

Dan Richards - Aiki Research

"Budo must always reflect its surroundings. If it isn't newer and stronger, it isn't valid." - Shoji Nishio
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Old 03-03-2013, 07:14 AM   #8
Millsy
Dojo: AikiCenter(Aus)/SOMD Aikido(US)
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote: View Post
That's a good point, Hugh. I think it's more a matter of initially being surprised that you're getting your ass kicked. And then the surprise of acceptance, and then the sheer enjoyment of getting your ass kicked.
Yep that pretty much sums up Aikido
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:01 AM   #9
Walter Martindale
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

What you're experiencing is called "Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness" - (DOMS). Whenever you start exercising after a long time away, your muscles haven't been doing much, and they get sore, usually about 24-36 hours later. The good thing is that it goes away. It might not go away by Monday, but it will go away.

Another good thing is that if you continue training (and stretching) your muscles WILL adapt, you will get stronger, more flexible, and you won't feel all beaten up the day after practice.

If you get into good shape from several months of gradually increased training, you'll find yourself able to do more and more (you may even quit smoking).

If, after getting into shape by doing aikido, you try another activity, such as going for a run, lifting weights, or a different sport/art, you'll find yourself getting the DOMS again, but not for as long, not as severe, and mainly in the muscles that are involved in the new movements.

Welcome to Aikido. Have fun.

Walter
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:19 PM   #10
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

To add to what Walter said: there are ways to manage/mitigate the effects of DOMS (here's a good article), but discomfort is part of having an active body that is subjected to physical challenges. The trick is to develop a sense for when "discomfort" means "this is something I should just ignore", and when it means "this is something I can safely ignore, but I can help it by doing something", and when it means "this means I'm doing something wrong and need to change it", and when it means "this is an injury that needs medical attention". I'm afraid that the only way to develop that sense is to learn by doing, and of course by asking others who are doing the same activity. So keep asking, and keep training!
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:40 AM   #11
ryback
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 191
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Quote:
John Chrisoulis wrote: View Post
Hello members of AikiWeb!

I'll try to be as brief as possible.Im a male,24 years old and i have just started learning Aikido in a local dojo in Athens,Greece.My sensei is 4th Dan,student of Tissie.

I have been living a very unhealthy lifestyle in the past 5-6 years,sitting most of the time studying or watching TV,internet etc.I never paid any attention to what i was eating,i am a smoker and i always have 3-4 drinks in a week.I guess the only good physical trait that i have is a normal weight of 75kg with 183cm height.

I was fed up watching my physical strength and stamina deteriorate and in the last 2 years i think it has also had a mental effect,contributing to a constant feeling of boredom and mild depression.At first a thought i should start visitng a gym but then,knowing a bit about myself,i was sure that that kind of "training for the sake of training" would be uninteresting and i would quit.

So i researched martial arts,at first thinking i wont be suitable because i have a genuine dislike for violence,but then i saw Aikido!I found it extremely beautiful and i also read a few things about its creator and its philosophy which made it even more beautiful in my eyes.

So here i am,after my first training yesterday where i did seiza and ukemi and my knees ache,my buttocks are extremely sore,my abdominal muscles the same,the front of my feet the same,my legs the same,my back the same and both my shoulders are bruised at the exact same spot making even a slight pressure on them quite painfull!

To be honest i loved it! I felt alive after exiting the dojo! But im a bit nervous about my bodys condition.Are these results normal?Should i get bruised sometimes to learn?Will the pain go away before my next training on Monday,then Wednesday,then Friday etc?I mean,if try to do Ukemi now with my nonexistent technique,i'll want to scream from pain!

I am not afraid of some punishment or some pain,i only ask these questions to know what i should and shouldnt do,to always be able to train and get the most out of it.

I thank anyone who took the time to read this in advance!Any advice is much aprecciated!
Hi there John!It seems like we have the same name and the same country of origin.
It's always nice to know that a new person started studying Aikido because to me it's the most important aspect of my life and it affects everything else.
You don't have to worry about the, somewhat painful, results of your first day of practice, just keep on practicing and after a while everything will be normal. You see, as Steven Seagal sensei often states "in aikido you have to unlearn first", meaning to unlearn all the things that you used to do (being tense, using muscle strength e.t.c) before you started Aikido. Pretty soon you'll realise that aikido is the natural way, and you will start to see the way people stand, sit, move, e.t.c from a new perspective.
As for your up-till-now way of life, aikido will help you change your daily routine for the better but only if you want it to!
I made my choices almost since day one, i was very determined and i have a great teacher.Nutritional habits like quit eatting meat, change the way you cook, change the quantity and quality of what you eat might sound difficult in the beginning, but the way of the warrior is a way of life.
I hope that my post is helpful at least in inspiring you to keep on studying aikido, and developing your physical, mental and spiritual self along the way.Welcome!
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:38 AM   #12
Deppart
Location: Athens
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3
Greece
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Thank you all for your encouraging and informative replies!Training in Monday felt even better and i have a feeling that this is going to be the case every time!Im lucky to have experienced students alongside me in my dojo!The "least" experienced is 3rd kyu and you can imagine how it feels to be shown and trained by all of them in circles!They are all in their thirties-forties and really nice,calm and mature characters!
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:25 AM   #13
Krystal Locke
Location: Phoenix, Oregon
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Be good to your knees. You are going to want them back, later.
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:49 PM   #14
SparkErosion
Dojo: 6th Kyu (yellow belt) rank/ Five Rings Aikido/ Seidokan hybrid style
Location: Arizona
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

On my first day of Aikido almost a year ago, it was the flopping ukemi (forward rolls) that got me in pain the most, heh. I was afraid to go over my head, stopped mid way and flopped over. It hurt so bad. About 7 months later in a zempo kaiten nage technique, (I was still white belt), I hadn't realized I was going to have to do a forward roll, and as I put my hand out to roll, it was too late, I stopped mid air and landed in my roll straigt, vertically with all the pressure on my shoulder. I had gotten an a/c seperation of the shoulder. Was in a sling and on pain meds for a month. The major pain went away, and after 5 months there still is a bump there. However, doing foward rolls on that shoulder still does hurt a bit sometimes, even though the a/c seperation has healed. I keep wondering why I still have pain there sometimes and if it will ever go away.

Another thing that was hard to get used to was the joint locks. Those hurt so bad at first. I intially didn't know I had to kneel in nikyou, it hurt real bad then they told me to kneel to relief the pressure.

Another thing is respect for students I learned and also in how I saw things. when I first joined, I'd say the first 3 months, everything looked completely different. All the techniques looked different. I was frusterated and a bit upset we did a different variation of a technique each day. (I didn't even know they were the same techniques, or variations of them, they just looked different). I just tested a couple weeks ago for my first colored belt, Rokkyu, yellow belt.

It's amazing how things open up. Suddenly the terminology all makes sense.I understand "ki" better, energy, getting off line, redirecting attacks, dropping your center, unbalancing, distance from nage/proxmition, when to do atemi, etc.

I also am beginning to understand that those techniques are all the same. They all use circular movements. Every technique just seems to redirect the attack where it came. If someone is doing yokomenuchi strike to my head, and I do undo furi choyaku undo, I blend with the movement, becoming part of it, in a circle, instead of fighting it. All of this seems to be the same, small, big, circular movements. None of it is different really. They all use the same controls (nikyo, sankyo,kototeasa, kotegaeshi, etc) Ikkyou, iriminage, kyokyunage, techni nage, koyukdosa, shino nage, all the same techques just expressed differently.

It's amazing how my perceptions changed so much over that time period. At first each class was frusterating, I couldn't do any of the tecnhnique. Now it's alot more fun, I can do ukemi, some breakfalls, have the gross motor skills to do most of the techniques.

6th Kyu in Aikido. (Yellow belt). Been training consistently for 10 months.
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:17 PM   #15
Rob Watson
Location: CA
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Quote:
John Chrisoulis wrote: View Post
Thank you all for your encouraging and informative replies!Training in Monday felt even better and i have a feeling that this is going to be the case every time!Im lucky to have experienced students alongside me in my dojo!The "least" experienced is 3rd kyu and you can imagine how it feels to be shown and trained by all of them in circles!They are all in their thirties-forties and really nice,calm and mature characters!
Sounds like a good place to learn.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:54 AM   #16
MarkWatson
 
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Yep, totally normal John.
Your body will build up a tolerance to certain parts of your training, ukemi, atemi's (partner dependant ) and stretches.
Although there are some techniques that will always be delightfully painful. Yonkyo being the main one, and nikkyo being the main two that hurt the most.

Your gonna love it bud.

N.B, eating the right things makes all the difference to training, hard or light. You will probably wont see a dramatic increase in your fitness with Aikido practice, unless your Sensei does conditioning training, however you will be much healthier with the right diet and regular exercise.
Have fun.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:24 PM   #17
SparkErosion
Dojo: 6th Kyu (yellow belt) rank/ Five Rings Aikido/ Seidokan hybrid style
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

For me, katateosa (spelling?) always hurt the most.

Steven Seagal likes to do this one alot, I like it since we actually never do it. We do the stretch, but we've only done the technique once in class before. Perhaps its not too popular in the style I train in.

Last time we did it in a grab. Gonkyo, yonkyo (same thing I guess) yeah those hurt alot for me too.

We do slight cardio with running and lunges in the beginning of the class for 2 minutes. but that isn't enough to burn many calories. I lost 104 lbs biking and weight lifting and eating a proper diet. here's a tip. If you don't like eating veggies, get there gradually. I couldn't eat anything green when I was obese. I always liked the junk food, the fried stuff better. I started out slow, got a jack in the box oriental salad (colored with the very high calorie sesame dressing, but there was lettuce in there none the less!) and got started that way. It may not have been the best option, but it worked for me. I started with frozen dinners that were "lite" verisons of the others. although they still had alot of the salt.

Eventually I stopped eating those and just went to whole foods.

It took me 2 years. But so far, I've maintained it for 4 years.

Good luck!

6th Kyu in Aikido. (Yellow belt). Been training consistently for 10 months.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:34 PM   #18
JP3
 
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

The only piece in the original post that made my eyebrows go up was the bruising on the shoulders, which I would guess was handled in earlier responses as the vitamin deficiency. Sounds plausible.

My ... concern .. if it is such, would be for the ukemi, as another earlier poster said. I'd be wondering if ukemi is actually "taught," or just demonstrated in the silent way of some schools.

In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, that's a dangerous way to do things. From a totally selfish point of view, a student who could be the next "Wow! Look at how good that guy/gal is!" person gets broken in their first couple of months of aikido practice, and never comes back. No good.

But, that doesn't look like it happened here, so Bully for you!

I find it interesting that the kanji character for kuzushi illustrates a mountain falling on a house.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:19 AM   #19
ChrisMikk
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Quote:
John Chrisoulis wrote: View Post
I have been living a very unhealthy lifestyle in the past 5-6 years,sitting most of the time studying or watching TV,internet etc.I never paid any attention to what i was eating,i am a smoker and i always have 3-4 drinks in a week.I guess the only good physical trait that i have is a normal weight of 75kg with 183cm height.
Smoking definitely needs to go, but your alcohol intake not so bad. Apparently, men do quite well on 1.5-2 drinks per day. Take alcohol with food, however.

My advice--throw out your TV. Once you stop watching it, you won't miss it. And don't use the computer unless you are icing your joints or muscles after aikido practice and need to distract your mind...

クリス の 合気ブログ Kyoto Kenshusei
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:24 PM   #20
crbateman
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Re: Questions after first day of training in Aikido

Muscles not typically used will usually protest in the fashion you have described. Don't worry about it; it usually goes away as you continue to train. Just remember the old adage "No pain, no gain..."

Best of luck to you!
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