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02-08-2012, 07:37 AM
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#76
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Location: ATL
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 847
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
Deceived by your eyes maybe? How can you tell? In truth you can't. You can only assume.
Most people say that 'when the time comes in real life' is the only true test.
Some people say that it's bigger than that, it's how you handle situations in life, including the one above.
Some people refer to 'war' and thus the test would be in battle only.
So what do you see? You don't see these real situations. You merely see a form of practice.
The bruised and bloodied or nth dan practitioner may meet a situation in life and all discipline flies out of the window, all calmness gone, get's a pasting.
Meanwhile the one you couldn't quite understand, in the same situation, no problem.
Do our eyes deceive? Mostly.
Regards.G.
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More wisdom from the mountain top. What you're suggesting is nothing more than blind faith. Anyone, regardless of training or skill can find themselves in a situation where they lose their focus and get in trouble. It's complete foolishness to suggest that a type of practice where the only real consequences are that someones hand might get caught in your gi as they run through you to the wall has equal chances of success as someone who has faced some level of real pressure and knows what it's like to be able to focus through that and get something done. One is blind faith and the other is actual preparation.
Aikido can be a lot of things, movement practice, fighting practice (kind of) or spiritual practice. There's nothing wrong with it being any of those things, but don't suggest that it's all or some of those things when it clearly is not. It's at best disingenuous and at worst dishonest.
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02-08-2012, 07:53 AM
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#77
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,248
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Well, Graham has his fans who consider him wise and enlightened, His approach has a market, so be it.
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02-08-2012, 08:29 AM
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#78
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote:
More wisdom from the mountain top. What you're suggesting is nothing more than blind faith. Anyone, regardless of training or skill can find themselves in a situation where they lose their focus and get in trouble. It's complete foolishness to suggest that a type of practice where the only real consequences are that someones hand might get caught in your gi as they run through you to the wall has equal chances of success as someone who has faced some level of real pressure and knows what it's like to be able to focus through that and get something done. One is blind faith and the other is actual preparation.
Aikido can be a lot of things, movement practice, fighting practice (kind of) or spiritual practice. There's nothing wrong with it being any of those things, but don't suggest that it's all or some of those things when it clearly is not. It's at best disingenuous and at worst dishonest.
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It can be all or some of those things.
Regards.G.
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02-08-2012, 08:31 AM
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#79
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
Well, Graham has his fans who consider him wise and enlightened, His approach has a market, so be it.
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Aha! Must be time for a seminar.....
G.
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02-08-2012, 08:35 AM
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#80
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Location: ATL
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 847
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
It can be all or some of those things.
Regards.G.
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But when it's not, it's ok to pretend it is?
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02-08-2012, 08:47 AM
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#81
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Location: Long Beach, CA
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 332
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
Aha! Must be time for a seminar.....
G.
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Graham
A a possible solution to all the misunderstanding of your approach and it's effectiveness. I am sure that if you hosted a seminar with you as the featured instructor folks would be beating down the doors to get on the mat with you. I think you should find a reasonably large space to accommodate everyone who would want to be involved....
just go straight
Gary
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02-08-2012, 08:50 AM
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#82
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Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
The bruised and bloodied or nth dan practitioner may meet a situation in life and all discipline flies out of the window, all calmness gone, get's a pasting.
Meanwhile the one you couldn't quite understand, in the same situation, no problem.
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Hey...nice self-crediting for an imaginary situation; nice self-promotion as being greater thant the bruised and bloodied or "nth dan practitioner."
Too bad it's purely imaginary.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
Do our eyes deceive? Mostly.
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Myself, I think it's words that deceive--and mostly those words we tell ourselves to justify some strange thing we're doing. That's why serious martial artists go into the community and measure themselves against established people whose place in the world of martial arts is well known. Others just give themselves credit for being wiser than the established people...and thus having nothing to prove.
But if there's nothing to prove....why keep coming back?
So sad, really. So sad.
David
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"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu
"Eternity forever!"
www.esotericorange.com
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02-08-2012, 08:54 AM
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#83
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote:
But when it's not, it's ok to pretend it is?
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Aikido always is. So is any martial art. Your point?
G.
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02-08-2012, 08:54 AM
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#84
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote:
More wisdom from the mountain top. What you're suggesting is nothing more than blind faith. Anyone, regardless of training or skill can find themselves in a situation where they lose their focus and get in trouble. It's complete foolishness to suggest that a type of practice where the only real consequences are that someones hand might get caught in your gi as they run through you to the wall has equal chances of success as someone who has faced some level of real pressure and knows what it's like to be able to focus through that and get something done. One is blind faith and the other is actual preparation.
Aikido can be a lot of things, movement practice, fighting practice (kind of) or spiritual practice. There's nothing wrong with it being any of those things, but don't suggest that it's all or some of those things when it clearly is not. It's at best disingenuous and at worst dishonest.
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That really cuts to the heart of the matter.
I don't think anyone has trouble with the gentle people who practice their spiritual aikido. Trouble only arises when....they...and it is always...them... who want to claim that which was unearned. Martial veracity.
And here is the rub
When they are challenged on that score
It is ...they..and it is always....them....who run away and hide.
Why?
Inside, they know you can't have something for free. There are no fighting skills that are unearned. The practice of the gentle people is fine and everyone has fun. Who has a beef with that? It is only when that practice is claimed... as a budo that trouble arises both from within the art, and from those outside watching. Most reasonable people know it is hollow and meaningless in any martial sense and I suspect those doing it know it too. From there you have to discern their motives in communicating their ideas to the martial community.
Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
Well, Graham has his fans who consider him wise and enlightened, His approach has a market, so be it.
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I disagree. To me this really isn't about Graham. It is about those practicing a so called spiritual aikido and stealing your arts hard earned reputation and work as a form of Budo.
Yup.
Stealing it, and then eventually destroying your arts reputation.
How's that?
When the gentle folk invaded aikido-- the numbers went up and the death of aikido began.
Now that the MMA craze hit and more and more people interested in Budo joined Koryu; the reality and demands of real budo sunk in to a broader range of aikido-ka due to the increased exposure. So now the numbers and that type of practice actually hurt Aikido. And when everyone complains about the numbers drastically falling off in dojos worldwide...one need only look right at those gentle folk out there staring at a smarter audience and trying to convince them (and themselves) that what they are doing actually works!
Of those who remain practicing the ultracooperative and spiritual side-watch carefully and you will see an underlying pretense in a host of these gentle folk.
1. If they are practicing a spiritual path, why are they dressed in budo clothing and brandishing weapons?
2. To what purpose?
3. Because they want to believe and want others to believe, they are a part of budo.
Yup, beyond all protestations and argument, that is all it really is. And they are borrowing someone else's good name and hard work to substantiate their own skills.
Don't believe me? Hang out with them. wait and see how long it takes before they talk about practical fighting and applications and...and...the feats of a "spiritual" Ueshiba to defeat all those bully boys. Now you just have to see who has the guts to step up and actually take part in that same practice with their budo attire and weapons..with people who actually suffered and trained hard to gain real skills.
What happens?
In person-they run away.
On the internet? Reams and reams of typing and fashioning excuses to explain away one simple fact.... why they ran away.
Movement aikido, and Spiritual Aikido are not and will never be Budo. The community needs to call people on it and let them know the reality of just what their practice really is. Otherwise you are staring into a further decline of your own making. Exposure and education is the only way for the art to move forward.
Dan
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02-08-2012, 08:56 AM
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#85
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
David Orange wrote:
Hey...nice self-crediting for an imaginary situation; nice self-promotion as being greater thant the bruised and bloodied or "nth dan practitioner."
Too bad it's purely imaginary.
Myself, I think it's words that deceive--and mostly those words we tell ourselves to justify some strange thing we're doing. That's why serious martial artists go into the community and measure themselves against established people whose place in the world of martial arts is well known. Others just give themselves credit for being wiser than the established people...and thus having nothing to prove.
But if there's nothing to prove....why keep coming back?
So sad, really. So sad.
David
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Your words.
G.
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02-08-2012, 09:02 AM
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#86
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,248
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
Aha! Must be time for a seminar.....
G.
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I suggest to invite someone who has not been involved in aikiweb discussions about you (or aiki or ki), to provide a neutral unbiased opinion.
I'm thinking in someone skilled in aikido and with a good sense of humor, for instance Mr. Dacosta. I believe everybody around here would accept his opinion about your aikido skills.
Just an idea to consider.
Last edited by Demetrio Cereijo : 02-08-2012 at 09:05 AM.
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02-08-2012, 09:13 AM
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#87
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote:
Graham
A a possible solution to all the misunderstanding of your approach and it's effectiveness. I am sure that if you hosted a seminar with you as the featured instructor folks would be beating down the doors to get on the mat with you. I think you should find a reasonably large space to accommodate everyone who would want to be involved....
just go straight
Gary
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A seminar. You mean one of those things hosted by Shihan with large followings. You mean one of those things where people who respect that teacher attend and feel honoured to do so. I see.
Don't seem to fit me somehow.
G.
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02-08-2012, 09:21 AM
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#88
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
I suggest to invite someone who has not been involved in aikiweb discussions about you (or aiki or ki), to provide a neutral unbiased opinion.
I'm thinking in someone skilled in aikido and with a good sense of humor, for instance Mr. Dacosta. I believe everybody around here would accept his opinion about your aikido skills.
Just an idea to consider.
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Ah, one of my old students. Well found.
G.
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02-08-2012, 09:25 AM
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#89
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Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
A seminar. You mean one of those things hosted by Shihan with large followings. You mean one of those things where people who respect that teacher attend and feel honoured to do so. I see.
Don't seem to fit me somehow.
G.
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Let's go to the dictionary:
sem·i·nar (sm-när)
n.
1.
a. A small group of advanced students in a college or graduate school engaged in original research or intensive study under the guidance of a professor who meets regularly with them to discuss their reports and findings.
b. A course of study so pursued.
c. A scheduled meeting of such a group.
2. A meeting for an exchange of ideas; a conference.
A seminar from you would fit the second definition. Many people who are not Shihan's and do not have large followings, hold seminars.
would you care to put out another reason as to why a seminar would not be appropriate?
Marc Abrams
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02-08-2012, 09:32 AM
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#90
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Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,476
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
This could be quite impossible because of us really believe in no competition.
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02-08-2012, 09:36 AM
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#91
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,248
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Competition? Who is talking about competition?
We are talking about competence. A different word with a different meaning.
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02-08-2012, 09:39 AM
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#92
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Graham
I want to come and train with you when I am in England and buy you dinner after.
How do we arrange that?
What is your location
What are your hours?
Dan
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02-08-2012, 09:49 AM
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#93
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote:
Let's go to the dictionary:
sem·i·nar (sm-när)
n.
1.
a. A small group of advanced students in a college or graduate school engaged in original research or intensive study under the guidance of a professor who meets regularly with them to discuss their reports and findings.
b. A course of study so pursued.
c. A scheduled meeting of such a group.
2. A meeting for an exchange of ideas; a conference.
A seminar from you would fit the second definition. Many people who are not Shihan's and do not have large followings, hold seminars.
would you care to put out another reason as to why a seminar would not be appropriate?
Marc Abrams
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Would you like to give me an example of one.
G.
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02-08-2012, 10:08 AM
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#94
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Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
Your words.
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I know.
But now that I've seen Master DaCosta, a red-and-white belt....I can see that, indeed, the masters do come and bow before you.
Incredible.
David
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"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu
"Eternity forever!"
www.esotericorange.com
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02-08-2012, 10:11 AM
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#95
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,248
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
Ah, one of my old students. Well found.
G.
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Could someone be so kind to contact Mr Da Costa on my behalf (my english is not good enough to adress a british judo legend and aikido high rank), and ask him about the veracity of this statement.
Mr. Da Costa website: http://www.shinjido.com/
Thanks in advance.
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02-08-2012, 10:12 AM
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#96
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Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
Ah, one of my old students. Well found.
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It's a treasure.
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"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu
"Eternity forever!"
www.esotericorange.com
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02-08-2012, 10:15 AM
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#97
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
Graham
I want to come and train with you when I am in England and buy you dinner after.
How do we arrange that?
What is your location
What are your hours?
Dan
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You want to? Why should I ''want to?'
G.
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02-08-2012, 10:17 AM
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#98
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,248
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
You want to? Why should I ''want to?'
G.
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He buys dinner. In today's times that's a very good offer.
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02-08-2012, 10:32 AM
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#99
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
He buys dinner. In today's times that's a very good offer.
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But I eat one grain of rice, brown, chewed 36 times and followed by a nice cup of Ki. Mmmmm, lovely.
Now if someone wants to buy me a house we could be in business.
G.
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02-08-2012, 11:15 AM
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#100
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Location: ATL
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 847
Offline
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Re: Aikido attacks.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
Aikido always is. So is any martial art. Your point?
G.
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My point is that it takes more than just saying that what you do is all those things to make it so. The practice has to change accordingly and the ways that it changes are things that you have clearly said aren't a part of your practice.
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