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Old 02-08-2012, 08:37 AM   #76
chillzATL
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Deceived by your eyes maybe? How can you tell? In truth you can't. You can only assume.

Most people say that 'when the time comes in real life' is the only true test.

Some people say that it's bigger than that, it's how you handle situations in life, including the one above.

Some people refer to 'war' and thus the test would be in battle only.

So what do you see? You don't see these real situations. You merely see a form of practice.

The bruised and bloodied or nth dan practitioner may meet a situation in life and all discipline flies out of the window, all calmness gone, get's a pasting.

Meanwhile the one you couldn't quite understand, in the same situation, no problem.

Do our eyes deceive? Mostly.

Regards.G.
More wisdom from the mountain top. What you're suggesting is nothing more than blind faith. Anyone, regardless of training or skill can find themselves in a situation where they lose their focus and get in trouble. It's complete foolishness to suggest that a type of practice where the only real consequences are that someones hand might get caught in your gi as they run through you to the wall has equal chances of success as someone who has faced some level of real pressure and knows what it's like to be able to focus through that and get something done. One is blind faith and the other is actual preparation.

Aikido can be a lot of things, movement practice, fighting practice (kind of) or spiritual practice. There's nothing wrong with it being any of those things, but don't suggest that it's all or some of those things when it clearly is not. It's at best disingenuous and at worst dishonest.
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:53 AM   #77
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Well, Graham has his fans who consider him wise and enlightened, His approach has a market, so be it.

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Old 02-08-2012, 09:29 AM   #78
graham christian
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
More wisdom from the mountain top. What you're suggesting is nothing more than blind faith. Anyone, regardless of training or skill can find themselves in a situation where they lose their focus and get in trouble. It's complete foolishness to suggest that a type of practice where the only real consequences are that someones hand might get caught in your gi as they run through you to the wall has equal chances of success as someone who has faced some level of real pressure and knows what it's like to be able to focus through that and get something done. One is blind faith and the other is actual preparation.

Aikido can be a lot of things, movement practice, fighting practice (kind of) or spiritual practice. There's nothing wrong with it being any of those things, but don't suggest that it's all or some of those things when it clearly is not. It's at best disingenuous and at worst dishonest.
It can be all or some of those things.

Regards.G.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:31 AM   #79
graham christian
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Well, Graham has his fans who consider him wise and enlightened, His approach has a market, so be it.
Aha! Must be time for a seminar.....

G.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:35 AM   #80
chillzATL
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
It can be all or some of those things.

Regards.G.
But when it's not, it's ok to pretend it is?
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:47 AM   #81
Gary David
 
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Aha! Must be time for a seminar.....

G.
Graham
A a possible solution to all the misunderstanding of your approach and it's effectiveness. I am sure that if you hosted a seminar with you as the featured instructor folks would be beating down the doors to get on the mat with you. I think you should find a reasonably large space to accommodate everyone who would want to be involved....

just go straight

Gary
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:50 AM   #82
David Orange
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
The bruised and bloodied or nth dan practitioner may meet a situation in life and all discipline flies out of the window, all calmness gone, get's a pasting.

Meanwhile the one you couldn't quite understand, in the same situation, no problem.
Hey...nice self-crediting for an imaginary situation; nice self-promotion as being greater thant the bruised and bloodied or "nth dan practitioner."

Too bad it's purely imaginary.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Do our eyes deceive? Mostly.
Myself, I think it's words that deceive--and mostly those words we tell ourselves to justify some strange thing we're doing. That's why serious martial artists go into the community and measure themselves against established people whose place in the world of martial arts is well known. Others just give themselves credit for being wiser than the established people...and thus having nothing to prove.

But if there's nothing to prove....why keep coming back?

So sad, really. So sad.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:54 AM   #83
graham christian
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
But when it's not, it's ok to pretend it is?
Aikido always is. So is any martial art. Your point?

G.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:54 AM   #84
DH
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
More wisdom from the mountain top. What you're suggesting is nothing more than blind faith. Anyone, regardless of training or skill can find themselves in a situation where they lose their focus and get in trouble. It's complete foolishness to suggest that a type of practice where the only real consequences are that someones hand might get caught in your gi as they run through you to the wall has equal chances of success as someone who has faced some level of real pressure and knows what it's like to be able to focus through that and get something done. One is blind faith and the other is actual preparation.

Aikido can be a lot of things, movement practice, fighting practice (kind of) or spiritual practice. There's nothing wrong with it being any of those things, but don't suggest that it's all or some of those things when it clearly is not. It's at best disingenuous and at worst dishonest.
That really cuts to the heart of the matter.
I don't think anyone has trouble with the gentle people who practice their spiritual aikido. Trouble only arises when....they...and it is always...them... who want to claim that which was unearned. Martial veracity.
And here is the rub
When they are challenged on that score
It is ...they..and it is always....them....who run away and hide.
Why?
Inside, they know you can't have something for free. There are no fighting skills that are unearned. The practice of the gentle people is fine and everyone has fun. Who has a beef with that? It is only when that practice is claimed...as a budo that trouble arises both from within the art, and from those outside watching. Most reasonable people know it is hollow and meaningless in any martial sense and I suspect those doing it know it too. From there you have to discern their motives in communicating their ideas to the martial community.

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Well, Graham has his fans who consider him wise and enlightened, His approach has a market, so be it.
I disagree. To me this really isn't about Graham. It is about those practicing a so called spiritual aikido and stealing your arts hard earned reputation and work as a form of Budo.
Yup.
Stealing it, and then eventually destroying your arts reputation.
How's that?
When the gentle folk invaded aikido-- the numbers went up and the death of aikido began.
Now that the MMA craze hit and more and more people interested in Budo joined Koryu; the reality and demands of real budo sunk in to a broader range of aikido-ka due to the increased exposure. So now the numbers and that type of practice actually hurt Aikido. And when everyone complains about the numbers drastically falling off in dojos worldwide...one need only look right at those gentle folk out there staring at a smarter audience and trying to convince them (and themselves) that what they are doing actually works!

Of those who remain practicing the ultracooperative and spiritual side-watch carefully and you will see an underlying pretense in a host of these gentle folk.
1. If they are practicing a spiritual path, why are they dressed in budo clothing and brandishing weapons?
2. To what purpose?
3. Because they want to believe and want others to believe, they are a part of budo.

Yup, beyond all protestations and argument, that is all it really is. And they are borrowing someone else's good name and hard work to substantiate their own skills.
Don't believe me? Hang out with them. wait and see how long it takes before they talk about practical fighting and applications and...and...the feats of a "spiritual" Ueshiba to defeat all those bully boys. Now you just have to see who has the guts to step up and actually take part in that same practice with their budo attire and weapons..with people who actually suffered and trained hard to gain real skills.
What happens?
In person-they run away.
On the internet? Reams and reams of typing and fashioning excuses to explain away one simple fact.... why they ran away.

Movement aikido, and Spiritual Aikido are not and will never be Budo. The community needs to call people on it and let them know the reality of just what their practice really is. Otherwise you are staring into a further decline of your own making. Exposure and education is the only way for the art to move forward.
Dan
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:56 AM   #85
graham christian
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
Hey...nice self-crediting for an imaginary situation; nice self-promotion as being greater thant the bruised and bloodied or "nth dan practitioner."

Too bad it's purely imaginary.

Myself, I think it's words that deceive--and mostly those words we tell ourselves to justify some strange thing we're doing. That's why serious martial artists go into the community and measure themselves against established people whose place in the world of martial arts is well known. Others just give themselves credit for being wiser than the established people...and thus having nothing to prove.

But if there's nothing to prove....why keep coming back?

So sad, really. So sad.

David
Your words.

G.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:02 AM   #86
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Aha! Must be time for a seminar.....

G.
I suggest to invite someone who has not been involved in aikiweb discussions about you (or aiki or ki), to provide a neutral unbiased opinion.

I'm thinking in someone skilled in aikido and with a good sense of humor, for instance Mr. Dacosta. I believe everybody around here would accept his opinion about your aikido skills.

Just an idea to consider.

Last edited by Demetrio Cereijo : 02-08-2012 at 10:05 AM.

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Old 02-08-2012, 10:13 AM   #87
graham christian
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Graham
A a possible solution to all the misunderstanding of your approach and it's effectiveness. I am sure that if you hosted a seminar with you as the featured instructor folks would be beating down the doors to get on the mat with you. I think you should find a reasonably large space to accommodate everyone who would want to be involved....

just go straight

Gary
A seminar. You mean one of those things hosted by Shihan with large followings. You mean one of those things where people who respect that teacher attend and feel honoured to do so. I see.

Don't seem to fit me somehow.

G.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:21 AM   #88
graham christian
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
I suggest to invite someone who has not been involved in aikiweb discussions about you (or aiki or ki), to provide a neutral unbiased opinion.

I'm thinking in someone skilled in aikido and with a good sense of humor, for instance Mr. Dacosta. I believe everybody around here would accept his opinion about your aikido skills.

Just an idea to consider.
Ah, one of my old students. Well found.

G.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:25 AM   #89
Marc Abrams
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
A seminar. You mean one of those things hosted by Shihan with large followings. You mean one of those things where people who respect that teacher attend and feel honoured to do so. I see.

Don't seem to fit me somehow.

G.
Let's go to the dictionary:

sem·i·nar (sm-när)
n.
1.
a. A small group of advanced students in a college or graduate school engaged in original research or intensive study under the guidance of a professor who meets regularly with them to discuss their reports and findings.
b. A course of study so pursued.
c. A scheduled meeting of such a group.
2. A meeting for an exchange of ideas; a conference.

A seminar from you would fit the second definition. Many people who are not Shihan's and do not have large followings, hold seminars.

would you care to put out another reason as to why a seminar would not be appropriate?

Marc Abrams
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:32 AM   #90
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Aikido attacks.

This could be quite impossible because of us really believe in no competition.

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Old 02-08-2012, 10:36 AM   #91
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Competition? Who is talking about competition?

We are talking about competence. A different word with a different meaning.

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Old 02-08-2012, 10:39 AM   #92
DH
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Graham
I want to come and train with you when I am in England and buy you dinner after.
How do we arrange that?
What is your location
What are your hours?
Dan
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:49 AM   #93
graham christian
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Let's go to the dictionary:

sem·i·nar (sm-när)
n.
1.
a. A small group of advanced students in a college or graduate school engaged in original research or intensive study under the guidance of a professor who meets regularly with them to discuss their reports and findings.
b. A course of study so pursued.
c. A scheduled meeting of such a group.
2. A meeting for an exchange of ideas; a conference.

A seminar from you would fit the second definition. Many people who are not Shihan's and do not have large followings, hold seminars.

would you care to put out another reason as to why a seminar would not be appropriate?

Marc Abrams
Would you like to give me an example of one.

G.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:08 AM   #94
David Orange
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Your words.
I know.

But now that I've seen Master DaCosta, a red-and-white belt....I can see that, indeed, the masters do come and bow before you.

Incredible.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:11 AM   #95
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Ah, one of my old students. Well found.

G.
Could someone be so kind to contact Mr Da Costa on my behalf (my english is not good enough to adress a british judo legend and aikido high rank), and ask him about the veracity of this statement.

Mr. Da Costa website: http://www.shinjido.com/

Thanks in advance.

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Old 02-08-2012, 11:12 AM   #96
David Orange
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Ah, one of my old students. Well found.
It's a treasure.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:15 AM   #97
graham christian
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Graham
I want to come and train with you when I am in England and buy you dinner after.
How do we arrange that?
What is your location
What are your hours?
Dan
You want to? Why should I ''want to?'

G.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:17 AM   #98
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
You want to? Why should I ''want to?'

G.
He buys dinner. In today's times that's a very good offer.

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Old 02-08-2012, 11:32 AM   #99
graham christian
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
He buys dinner. In today's times that's a very good offer.
But I eat one grain of rice, brown, chewed 36 times and followed by a nice cup of Ki. Mmmmm, lovely.

Now if someone wants to buy me a house we could be in business.

G.
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:15 PM   #100
chillzATL
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Re: Aikido attacks.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Aikido always is. So is any martial art. Your point?

G.
My point is that it takes more than just saying that what you do is all those things to make it so. The practice has to change accordingly and the ways that it changes are things that you have clearly said aren't a part of your practice.
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