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Old 02-09-2009, 11:27 PM   #51
Dan O'Day
 
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Aikido is non-competitive. I would hope those in positions to speak for large amounts of practitioners of the art feel the same way about the various organizations of aikido.

As a whole and in relation to the many other martial arts.

With regard to the original point of this thread...the no-touch exercise I have found very useful on the few occasions I have experienced it. As with eyes closed exercises, etc.

It's all training.

If I wanted to fight I'd be doing something else.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:23 AM   #52
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
I think the big question for Aikikai people is why is this sort of thing tolerated by the senior Shihan? What are the Doshu. Tada, Tamura et al thinking when this stuff is publicly demonstrated? Are the type of people likely to be attracted by this kind of demonstration really the people to carry Aikido forward?
I think there are several answers to these questions. First, it is certainly not for want of being told. In meetings I myself have told the present Doshu that such demonstrations are actually a source of scandal (I did not put it quite like this), to be told, in turn, about the unique features of the All-Japan Demonstration. It is, first and foremost, a 'gathering of the clans' (again, Doshu did not put it quite like this), showing the general strength of the Aikikai. (I also think, as a matter of fact, that some sections of the Aikikai would be angered by such opinions coming from a foreigner, who is not supposed to know about the deeper aspects of Japanese wa).

This is actually the second answer. For the Aikikai appears to think in numbers and likes to proclaim the steady increase in the number of participants in each successive year. I think there are always well over 5,000 people actually demonstrating. Even at the IAF Congress last year, what struck the Aikikai most was that 1,500 people had gone down to Tanabe (including 700 from overseas). Actually, I met your own teacher at the farewell reception. I know him from a previous meeting at one of Stanley Pranin's demonstrations in Tokyo. I think his own teacher was demonstrating Daito-ryu on that occasion. So, questions about the actual demonstrations are not usually considered.

The third answer is a corollary of the second. The Aikikai is still a major binding force, in the sense that it has retained nationwide allegiances since the departure of Koichi Tohei, by offering a vast measure of freedom to individual shihans. Tamura Shihan has no say whatever in the workings of Japanese aikido, but neither Doshu nor Tada Shihan would ever presume to tell someone of Mr Takeda's stature how or how not to perform a demonstration. It simply would never enter their heads to do so.

Of course, some people vote with their feet. I have fond memories of Arikawa Sadateru Shihan, who gave up giving such demonstrations many years ago, coming and sitting next to me and giving his own trenchant opinions about the demonstrations, including those of the 7th and 8th dan shihans.

Best wishes,

PAG

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Old 02-10-2009, 01:12 AM   #53
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Dan O'Day wrote: View Post
Aikido is non-competitive. I would hope those in positions to speak for large amounts of practitioners of the art feel the same way about the various organizations of aikido.

As a whole and in relation to the many other martial arts.

With regard to the original point of this thread...the no-touch exercise I have found very useful on the few occasions I have experienced it. As with eyes closed exercises, etc.

It's all training.

If I wanted to fight I'd be doing something else.
Hello Dan,

FWIW, the style of Daito Ryu I practice is a "soft" style. I'm well aware that it's considered in some quarters to be overly cooperative and likewise we also value developing sensitivity etc.
Equally, I regard Kyudo, Iaido and Naginata as fine forms of Budo and self cultivation, so I don't value Budo according to fighting ability per se. I do think that Budo should involve some level of Shugyo, which I define as training that challenges your limitations and the delusions we all harbour. No touch throws from across the mat demos by Shihan doesn't fit into my idea of Shugyo, I'm afraid.
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Old 02-10-2009, 01:20 AM   #54
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
I think there are several answers to these questions. First, it is certainly not for want of being told. In meetings I myself have told the present Doshu that such demonstrations are actually a source of scandal (I did not put it quite like this), to be told, in turn, about the unique features of the All-Japan Demonstration. It is, first and foremost, a 'gathering of the clans' (again, Doshu did not put it quite like this), showing the general strength of the Aikikai. (I also think, as a matter of fact, that some sections of the Aikikai would be angered by such opinions coming from a foreigner, who is not supposed to know about the deeper aspects of Japanese wa).

This is actually the second answer. For the Aikikai appears to think in numbers and likes to proclaim the steady increase in the number of participants in each successive year. I think there are always well over 5,000 people actually demonstrating. Even at the IAF Congress last year, what struck the Aikikai most was that 1,500 people had gone down to Tanabe (including 700 from overseas). Actually, I met your own teacher at the farewell reception. I know him from a previous meeting at one of Stanley Pranin's demonstrations in Tokyo. I think his own teacher was demonstrating Daito-ryu on that occasion. So, questions about the actual demonstrations are not usually considered.

The third answer is a corollary of the second. The Aikikai is still a major binding force, in the sense that it has retained nationwide allegiances since the departure of Koichi Tohei, by offering a vast measure of freedom to individual shihans. Tamura Shihan has no say whatever in the workings of Japanese aikido, but neither Doshu nor Tada Shihan would ever presume to tell someone of Mr Takeda's stature how or how not to perform a demonstration. It simply would never enter their heads to do so.

Of course, some people vote with their feet. I have fond memories of Arikawa Sadateru Shihan, who gave up giving such demonstrations many years ago, coming and sitting next to me and giving his own trenchant opinions about the demonstrations, including those of the 7th and 8th dan shihans.

Best wishes,

PAG
Hello Peter,

Iida Sensei has told me about meeting yourself and spoke very warmly about you. I look forward to meeting you someday.

Just to be clear, the views posted are purely my own and don't reflect my Sensei's views whatsoever

I also appreciate, it's easier to be critical from the outside. Still, this is a phenomenon that I've seen in Aikido, DR, Karate and other arts. I personally think it's a growing problem and I find it depressing.

My best regards,

Oisin Bourke

Last edited by oisin bourke : 02-10-2009 at 01:20 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-10-2009, 02:18 AM   #55
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
The third answer is a corollary of the second. The Aikikai is still a major binding force, in the sense that it has retained nationwide allegiances since the departure of Koichi Tohei, by offering a vast measure of freedom to individual shihans.

Best wishes,

PAG
I have spent the past couple of days doing quite a bit of research about the origins of Aikido and the development of its 6 main branches. (Shodokan, Yoseikan, Yoshinkan, Shin Shin, Iwama, & Aikiai.)

Each of the listed branches above, bring a unique aspect to Aikido.
Aikikai is now trying to give a unified face to Aikido - and as you appeared to put it, is letting the shihans who remain within their umbrella the freedom to do as they see fit.

I would say that this should have been done with Tohei, but in researching, they did retract and offer him to teach his 'ki', but he said it was, 'to late'. (Was good to read some of the interviews with him...some insight into the inner workings of the founding of Aikido and its establishment, and blowing past a bunch of the mystical stuff. Even Tohei said people that learned from him took the practical aspects of 'ki' and tried to make something mystical out of it.)

O Sensei taught something, and it changed over the years.
He didnt start with a finalized style, which is why it is so split to this day. (But that is stating the obvious.)

Personally I find that each of the branches have aspects that I would want to incorporate into my training: And Aikikai are in the unique position, (perhaps), to still be able to unify the strengths within each of these to unify Aikido.

Truth be said, it probably will not go beyond its efforts it is now - yet, if it is 'clumsy' it can backfire. (i.e., is the 'ki' your teaching got a point? If so can you be clear what is being done in the demo so it can be reproduced by anyone, as Tohei pointed out?)

There is merit in Iwamas weapons training, and Toheis version of 'ki' - if understood out of its mystical mumbo jumbo.

There is merit in placing correct emphasis on footwork, etc. like in Yoshinkan - while keeping your flow. (It will improve flow.)

There is merit in mixing martial arts as with Yoseikan, and even a place for Shodokan...even if its not sport, but some heavier Randori, etc.

Aikikai could do what they are now - have a basic outline for testing empty hand. Then have modulars that people can choose to add to their training.

In a way that is what should have happened with Tohei, and could have happened with ki. Perhaps, slowly the strengths of all the above would become part of the basics as it evolves.

Same with weapons...have a weapons as extra, yet ironically - doing weapons can help with your form...Even 'ki' Tohei said weapons is part of Aikido.

I dont think many people, at least from the outside, get Toheis version of ki - but it definitely is something a lot more practical, albeit misunderstood.

So there is great potential here...but for now, it is as it is - and this potential of unification exist in us individually.

More and more people seem to be crossing aspects of the various Aikido styles. (At least from what I have seen.)
And eventually this will show itself in the collective organization.

True change starts within, so I guess that is the way it happens.

peace

dAlen

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Old 02-10-2009, 03:43 AM   #56
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
I have spent the past couple of days doing quite a bit of research about the origins of Aikido and the development of its 6 main branches. (Shodokan, Yoseikan, Yoshinkan, Shin Shin, Iwama, & Aikiai.)

Each of the listed branches above, bring a unique aspect to Aikido.
Aikikai is now trying to give a unified face to Aikido - and as you appeared to put it, is letting the shihans who remain within their umbrella the freedom to do as they see fit.
Your post prompted me to make clearer here something that perhaps I took too much for granted in my earlier post.

Nearly all the videos of Mr Takeda and Mr Watanabe doing their so-called 'no-touch' throws are taken from the All-Japan Aikido Demonstration held every year in May at the Nippon Budokan in Tokyo.

Although foreigners occasionally appear at this event, it is a gathering of Japanese Aikikai aikido clans and primarily intended for Japanese aikidoists. It is sponsored by the All-Japan Aikido Federation (which is the Aikikai with a democratic fig-leaf) and the Kancho of Yoshinkan and a major shihan of Daito-ryu occasionally participate as guest spectators.

Apart from this, there is no interest whatever in other aikido organizations. I stated that the Aikikai is a major binding force (not, as you put it, attempting to give a 'unified face to aikido'), but I meant this purely within Japan. Japanese Aikikai aikido is still a large and variegated entity, with some groups tracing a lineage right back to the Omoto Dai Nippon Budo Senyokai, of 1932. The Aikikai has a major interest in keeping these clans together. So the All-Japan Demonstration is meant to enhance the 'feel-good' factor about belonging to the Aikikai--and not becoming independent.

The state of aikido abroad is quite another matter and here the Aikikai really does not consider that it has the role of a binding force (except among the organizations and shihans affiliated to the Aikikai). There was a demonstration at the recent IAF Congress. Speaking personally, I do not like aikido demonstrations, since the purpose is usually misunderstood (by the demonstrators, as much as by the spectators). However, on this occasion the setting was truly spectacular--and there was not a single 'no-touch' throw. I was sitting in the front row and was watching very carefully.

Best wishes,

Last edited by Peter Goldsbury : 02-10-2009 at 03:48 AM.

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Old 02-10-2009, 04:01 AM   #57
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Japanese Aikikai aikido is still a large and variegated entity, with some groups tracing a lineage right back to the Omoto Dai Nippon Budo Senyokai, of 1932. The Aikikai has a major interest in keeping these clans together. So the All-Japan Demonstration is meant to enhance the 'feel-good' factor about belonging to the Aikikai--and not becoming independent.
This would make the split with Tohei seem like it should never have happened? No?
Although, after reading the interview, it does seem like after his first 'rejection' it was his choice to separate.

(Just trying to make heads and tales of all this...and Im not even going to bother going past the japanese Shihans and their 'split'...enough to see the root)

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
By unified face, I was implying what you were saying by 'binding force' of the Japanese Aikido organizations...(all the ones I mentioned were Japanese...) Although Im not all that clear of the history of the development of the Aikikai outside of the fact there was O Sensei...and then the second Doshu offered to Tohei initially.
(Who are the different people that popped up suddenly to make these choices?) Anyway, a complex web.

Hope that clarifies a bit more where I was coming from.

p.s.s.
Never mind...your right, there is a subtle difference - they are not trying to unify anything...just keep the club together. Got where your coming from now I think.

Last edited by dalen7 : 02-10-2009 at 04:06 AM.

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Old 02-10-2009, 10:28 PM   #58
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Chris Farnham wrote: View Post
I am after all a no consequence white belted ikkyu
I wouldn't agree with that.

I do agree with your summary of the Watanabe class though. Just to add, from what I recall from the student of Sawada Shihan who took ukemi from Watanabe, there was talk of the uke being the deciding factor in how these things look.

Quote:
Manuel Aldunate wrote: View Post
Firts we start with the SOLID way, then you technique become LIQUID and then GASEOUS.
There's an interesting description of the katai / kotai, yawarakai (solid), ki-no-nagare (liquid) and kitai (gaseous) forms here:

http://www.iwama-aikido.com/resist.html
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Old 02-11-2009, 03:48 AM   #59
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

In summary, Aikido does require little muscular strength if it is learned correctly, and resistance is not harmonious if it is applied counterproductively. However, muscular power and constructive resistance are vital elements in Aikido training, and constitute stepping stones to higher levels.

Amen!!!!

Tony
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Old 02-11-2009, 06:47 AM   #60
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
There's an interesting description of the katai / kotai, yawarakai (solid), ki-no-nagare (liquid) and kitai (gaseous) forms here:

http://www.iwama-aikido.com/resist.html
Good article. That progression is how it has been explained to me as well. Getting there is another story.

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Old 02-11-2009, 07:24 AM   #61
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

I was reading yesterday Saotome sensei book,
he said that O sensei didt pay many attention to the form, he pass from a empty handed techniques to a bokken demostration easily, just to show what was the principle, If he wasn't teaching a form what was teaching?

He used aikido as a tool to teach something else.

After all he was trying to make us better human been.

So, why stop and start to criticize a way of aikido, intead of looking at any form and try to open the heart , mind and body and reach the very meanning of it.

Kannagara no michi

I will said that to unified with GOD you dont need any particular form.

Many road lead to rome.
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:22 AM   #62
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Manuel Aldunate wrote: View Post
...Many road lead to rome.
and even more, don't.

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Old 02-11-2009, 08:47 AM   #63
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Just to toss in my 2 cents.

There's a lot of confusion about the term "ki" because it's really an umbrella term that covers a number of phenomena that are interrelated. But in terms of an attack by an Uke, his force, whether normal strength or "internal" strength can be considered his ki. His intended direction of force, if you can read it well enough in advance, is also his ki.

In the old Asian arts, a legitimate facet of study was that of reading the intended direction of an opponent's attack and then making some feint or other gambit at some distance (not great) before closing in order to "affect Uke's ki". A legitimate "no touch" throw is based around taking advantage of Uke's valid anticipatory response to a maneuver.

If you look at Watanabe's throws, he essentially appears to be working with the legitimate premise of "no touch, lead his ki" methodology, but some of his students appear to overreact and to be looking for an excuse to fall (imagine that! ).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaLmelkgyrw

I don't know anything about Watanabe, but his skills look pretty good; i.e., to me he's within the 'legitimate' bounds, all in all. Some of his students too-eagerly overreact for him and personally I think there's too much emphasis on this "anticipatory Aikido" facet, but he appears to try to work valid responses (as much as you can with students who are too used to playing the game and so play along too much).

Where "no touch" becomes illegitimate is when it drifts into the realm of fantastic manipulation at great distances or with maneuvers that shift from accurate attempts to induce movement toward simple psychological cueing from teacher to student. Endo Sensei's demonstrations appear to drift into the fantastic and this sort of stuff grates on one's perceptions. It does degrade an art to see practitioners do this sort of stuff unchallenged. But then, this thread is a bona fide type of challenge to some of the fantasy-Aikido that indeed takes from the overall worth of the art. So all is well.

Best.

Mike Sigman
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:32 AM   #64
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
There's an interesting description of the katai / kotai, yawarakai (solid), ki-no-nagare (liquid) and kitai (gaseous) forms here:

http://www.iwama-aikido.com/resist.html
That's an excellent article, Carl. It's basically about the development from normal strength to ki/kokyu skills and going from static to moving techniques.

There is an interesting implication that a student is expected to go from resistance and muscle toward using correct strength (kokyu ryoku) and then developing technique and correct-strength toward using no-strength (that's a very classical statement). What's interesting about the stated ideas in that article is that a person more or less has to find his own way out of the muscle-puzzle. Too many people never do, so they wind up adjusting their use of muscle to techniques... and that's the common scenario in Aikido (and a number of other arts).

The power of the ki/kokyu skills is very much tied to the power that an Uke/opponent puts out in an attack. There is an old, old saying that essentially says "I cannot beat a wooden man or a brass man, but if he is human I can beat him". The essential idea is that using ki/kokyu skills I can blend with the various generated forces of an opponent, blend my forces with his forces and the combination will defeat the opponent. Since a wooden man and a brass man generate no forces, my ki/kokyu forces offer no real advantage.

Reading of an opponent's forces becomes critical. It goes beyond having a response up your sleeve that is an omote shiho-nage to a shomenuchi. You have to be able to see or feel the actual direction of general-movement force in the opponent and adjust your own internal forces in such a way the the attacking force is neutralized or, better yet, used to initiate the throw/technique that actually defeats Uke.

The body can be trained to instantly analyse and react to an incoming force, even if the force comes from behind. Tohei's "ki tricks" are actually basic training for always being in balance and letting the body "adjust" to any incoming force. At first in your training you just "ground" incoming forces... hence all the "immoveable" aspects of most "ki tests". But the Iwama comments imply the same things that Tohei's ki-tests do. Iwama just uses a different approach to the same core goals.

And of course doing some manipulations to affect Uke's forces before they actually reach Nage is a valid corollary of legitimate Aikido (and many other arts).

I often read old translations about various famous sword duels in the past and it's easy to see how much attention was paid to not giving away your general force directions, controlling the opponent's "ki" by generating your own force/kokyu/ki intentions in certain areas, and so on. "No touch" and "ki throws" are meant to be in these legitimate categories, but once you understand the idea it's pretty easy to spot the people who are making a parody of the legitimate skill, and so on.

FWIW

Mike Sigman
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:10 AM   #65
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Endo Sensei's demonstrations appear to drift into the fantastic and this sort of stuff grates on one's perceptions.
Just a quick correction that the demos in question are of Takeda Sensei not Endo Sensei. I think his name was mistakenly brought up earlier when the OP meant Watanabe Sensei.

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Old 02-11-2009, 10:44 AM   #66
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Mike Sigman
If you look at Watanabe's throws, he essentially appears to be working with the legitimate premise of "no touch, lead his ki" methodology, but some of his students appear to overreact and to be looking for an excuse to fall (imagine that! ).

Mike Sigman makes a valid point, there is often a over reaction from enthusiastic uki's, which is not appreciated by the Sensei.
I recall doing this myself when TK Chiba and I were on Anglia TV 1968 doing an Aikido demonstration. As Sensei threw me, I `took off ` making a l o n g ukemi, As I approached Sensei he just glowered at me and hissed quietly " Mr Ellis, I am most capable of throwing you myself without your help ! " With the next technique I knew exactly what he meant.

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Old 02-15-2009, 10:29 AM   #67
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
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Ahmad:

You make assumptions about people you have never met. I am not shooting down the importance of solid Ki training and the ability of both nage and uke to be continuously sensitized to each other's energy. What we are responding to is a manner of taking ukemi that develops habits that would result in somebody getting hurt if he/she were to do that in a real-life attack situation. HOW YOU PRACTICE IS HOW YOU WILL AUTOMATICALLY RESPOND IF YOU REALLY HAD TO USE YOUR STUFF TO PROTECT YOURSELF. There are a good number of us who train and teach in a manner that emphasizes good energy (soft is a bad description in my book), yet do not allow habits to form that can really be dangerous.

I will sum it up simply. Apply the "school of hard knocks test" to your Aikido. Have somebody really try and strike you. If your Aikido works fine, if it does not, you have a wealth of information that you can use to help make your Aikido really work, regardless of the useless tags (eg. "soft", "hard", "medium rare".....)

Marc Abrams
Marc,

I did not intend to make any assumptions about anyone in my last post. Just intended it to be taken as a generalisation if you will.

As for training realistically so that your body ingrains it into a natural habit, I agree wholeheartedly.

Testing your aikido with the school of hard knocks test, I suppose some of us will try regardless and that's ok.

Some people though are not that clever or that intuitive or naturally talented to pick up the knowledge gained from intense practice and mat experience. After all, learning to move is a chore much more when you're trying to harmonise with someone. That can almost be impossible if you don't know what you're doing. So in a way, structured practice is a dumbdowned version of what you should be doing. Practically so because not everyone can do it from the get go. As for Shihan's seminars, I doubt he wanted any greenhorn there, to be unduly influenced by his training methodology. I believe most shihans wants us to start off with the hard form first before moving on to the soft and the invisible.

My sensei himself advised his students to start with daito ryu or yoshinkan first. And Gozo shioda remains one of my key aikido idols. His aikido waza is incredibly 'soft' yet very much practical. His uke's can attest to the serious injuries they take when they're not alive enough to accept his waza. I also believe that without understanding harmony, your body won't be fast or flexible enough to accept his waza even if you've done serious hard and practical training.

I suppose we'll leave it at that and see where our training takes us this next couple of decades.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 04-23-2010, 07:32 AM   #68
sorokod
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

I know that is is an old thread, but the "no touch throws" in this video are pertinent to the discussion. In particular the "uke"s are not fake as I understand the word.

They do want to believe.

Very much.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNMC19X9EXo

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Old 04-23-2010, 07:41 AM   #69
Mike Sigman
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
I know that is is an old thread, but the "no touch throws" in this video are pertinent to the discussion. In particular the "uke"s are not fake as I understand the word.

They do want to believe.

Very much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNMC19X9EXo
I use the term "Wannabelieves" quite frequently. A part-time magician friend of mine pointed out once that many of the martial arts are very prime candidates for wannabelieve and cult behavior: uniforms, authority figures you want to please, exotic words, ritualized behavior, fervent peer group pressure to conform, and so on. It's very true and things go out of whack very quickly in many dojos in many arts.

FWIW

Mike Sigman
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:20 AM   #70
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
I know that is is an old thread, but the "no touch throws" in this video are pertinent to the discussion. In particular the "uke"s are not fake as I understand the word.

They do want to believe.

Very much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNMC19X9EXo
That guy is GOOD! LOL

William Hazen
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:29 PM   #71
Abasan
Dojo: Aiki Shoshinkan, Aiki Kenkyukai
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJr2B...eature=related

Its in newcastle for you northern brits to try out. Aikido doesn't have a monopoly on fantastic bouncing uke's. Personally I would love to try him out because I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing even if a lot of people will say his students are exaggerating a bit.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:49 PM   #72
Mike Sigman
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Ahmad Abas wrote: View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJr2B...eature=related

Its in newcastle for you northern brits to try out. Aikido doesn't have a monopoly on fantastic bouncing uke's. Personally I would love to try him out because I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing even if a lot of people will say his students are exaggerating a bit.
Hmmmm... I've met this guy. Used to call himself Peter Young or Yang, etc. Wore sunglasses because he said if he didn't his qi power might overcome you, or some-such. Think he came to a workshop I did in Houston in the 1990's. Ask him if he's ever been to Houston.

What he's doing is proof of my theory of "Martial-arts instructors as filters; Schools as filters". Roughly speaking, my theory states that a school (or martial-art) takes in large numbers of people and spits out all but the ones who agree with the concepts that are sold to them (valid, invalid, or BS). I.e., over time, a school becomes full of people that 'believe' a particular line (although of course sometimes the line is actually invested in reality).

I would love to try that stuff out, too, Ahmad, although I wouldn't do a Dan Docherty and just walk in and dump water on the guy's head in order to see if he could stop the water with his qi.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:52 PM   #73
RED
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Nah, this is the real deal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W1ym3yggR4

MM
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:05 PM   #74
Mike Sigman
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
Nah, this is the real deal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W1ym3yggR4
OMG Maggie... that one is so old that it's unbelievable. Back in the 90's I think. Reminds me of the old joke about a couple who was mugged by a Tai Chi gang: took 'em forty minutes to do it.

Mike
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:12 PM   #75
RED
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Re: No touching aikido, ki extention, fakes ukes?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
OMG Maggie... that one is so old that it's unbelievable. Back in the 90's I think. Reminds me of the old joke about a couple who was mugged by a Tai Chi gang: took 'em forty minutes to do it.

Mike
wakka wakka

MM
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