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Old 08-30-2004, 11:25 AM   #1
Tatiana
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Question Ki Aikido

Hi guys!!
I've got a question, and it's really giving me a pain in the neck, beacuase I can't seem to find out... Does any one know the difference between Ki Aikido and normal Aikido, or is it the same thing??? Thanks in advance!!

Tat
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Old 08-30-2004, 11:50 AM   #2
DaveO
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Re: Ki Aikido

Ki-Aikido is the aikido performed by the Ki Society; founded by Kiochi Tohei. The actual style of aikido is called 'Shin-shin Toitsu'; or 'Mind and body co-ordinated'.
Performance-wise; all styles are considerably different from another so there's really nothing that separates it farther apart from any other style. Ki-aikido is much softer than other styles; much more emphasis is placed on unbalancing and leading uke than in other styles. Also; some techniques are different - for instance; we don't use the wrist manipulation kote-gaeshi; instead we use kote-oroshi. (The difference is kote-gaeshi twists the wrist outward along the line of the little finger; basically. Kote-oroshi bends the wrist straight down. A minor difference; a vast difference in movement dynamic.)
Hope that helps - cheers!

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 08-30-2004, 12:31 PM   #3
Tatiana
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Re: Ki Aikido

Thanks Dave!!
It was just that you weren't the first person to tell me about Ki Aikido when you answered to my intro, So I kinda got REALLY curiouse and just HAD to ask about Ki Aikido... Thanks a stack!!!

Tat
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Old 08-30-2004, 01:57 PM   #4
kironin
 
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Re: Ki Aikido

Ki Aikido is really sort of western slang for various styles heavily influenced by Koichi Tohei Sensei. Generally they are styles that have
some form of his Ki Development training. Mind and Body Coordination training really is more apt description given it's Japanese name Shin Shin Toitsu Do. Of the top of my head, this would include Ki Society, AAA, Shin Budo Kai, Kokikai, British Ki Federation, Yuishinkai, and various independent dojos.

Some Ki Society dojos in the west use it in their name but some dojos not affiliated with Ki Society also use it even though it tends to be most closely associated with Ki Society.

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Old 08-30-2004, 02:53 PM   #5
MaryKaye
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Re: Ki Aikido

One of the practical differences between dojo that identify themselves as Ki-Aikido and others is the heavy use of "ki tests" to help the student assess his/her balance, ki extension, and calmness. My dojo is affiliated with Ki Society International and we do separate ranking in Ki Development, parallel to the aikido ranking though with fewer ranks, and spend quite a lot of time on it. When I've visited non-Ki Society dojo, the ki tests have either been fewer and more informal, or omitted completely.

For my next testing I will need to pass third kyu aikido and chukyu ki development, and frankly I'm more worried about chukyu. The tests are so darned simple that you can't get through with cleverness or trickery; you really need the required degree of control. Sensei will just glance down, notice that my toes are turning white because I'm using them to dig into the mat, shake his head sadly and move on....

I used to wonder if this was a good use of our time, but I've come to feel that it is. I've been training with a first-kyu student who already has his shoden (ki-development black belt), and admiring the ways in which the ki training informs his aikido--he has a definite edge on the other first kyus in understanding some aspects of technique. Attempts to use muscle or speed on him invariably end with the perpetrator on the mat feeling quite confused.

Mary Kaye
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Old 08-30-2004, 03:00 PM   #6
tedehara
 
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Re: Ki Aikido

Not only does the Ki Society practice its own style of aikido, but it also does things that are usually outside of the average aikido school. Ki development exercises, ki testing, ki breathing, ki meditation and kiatshu-ho, a form of accupressure healing, are some non-aikido practices. It also has its own forms for short staff (jo) and wooden sword (bokken). They have also developed a taigi contest, where nage and uke are judged on points.

The ki-aikido techniques are dynamic, in that there are changes made yearly. These changes are made at the headquarters dojo in Japan and usually taught through the national instructors' meetings in various countries.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
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Old 08-30-2004, 03:06 PM   #7
shihonage
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Re: Ki Aikido

Ki Aikido practitioners have the ability to fly above trees, but usually only when inside an aircraft or, in less fortunate cases, after being shot from a catapult.
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Old 08-30-2004, 03:21 PM   #8
tedehara
 
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Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Aleksey Sundeyev wrote:
Ki Aikido practitioners have the ability to fly above trees, but usually only when inside an aircraft or, in less fortunate cases, after being shot from a catapult.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
About You
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Old 08-30-2004, 03:42 PM   #9
DaveO
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Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Aleksey Sundeyev wrote:
...after being shot from a catapult.
LOL - I always wanted to try that; get shot from a catapult (or better; a trebuchet) off Angel Falls wearing a parachute.

That'd be fun!!!

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 08-31-2004, 02:48 AM   #10
kironin
 
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Re: Ki Aikido

yep forgot about Shiohira Sensei.

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Old 08-31-2004, 02:53 AM   #11
kironin
 
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Re: Ki Aikido

to quote an essay from my former teacher, George Simcox Sensei,

Quote:
Ki training is the path to meeting the performance objectives of Aikido. As taught by O'Sensei, Ki was developed through diligent practice of Aikido. Koichi Tohei, founder of the Ki Society International and last Chief Instructor appointed by O'Sensei, found that, by employing a few simple principles which he developed during his teaching of others, he could speed the development of Ki awareness within students and show them how to improve the flow of Ki energy in their body. This revolutionized instruction in Aikido and is developing a group of Aikido students which start their training with relaxation and softness as a part of their "going in philosophy". This results in a martial artist who has their civilizing forces strengthened, rather than weakened, during training.

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Old 08-31-2004, 04:41 AM   #12
shihonage
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Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote:
yep forgot about Shiohira Sensei.
Shiohira Sensei (chief instructor of Pacific Aikido Federation) is Aikikai.
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Old 08-31-2004, 04:44 AM   #13
happysod
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Re: Ki Aikido

Are they, damn, I thought the great treaty of 1527 had annexed this sensei (as well as some outlying sensei who couldn't run fast enough), oh well.

Craig etc have been coy, they forget to mention how much prettier, intelligent and generally cooler us Ki-types are (well, possibly not DaveO, but there's always outliers) and you should really see us hop...
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Old 08-31-2004, 08:41 AM   #14
kironin
 
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Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Aleksey Sundeyev wrote:
Shiohira Sensei (chief instructor of Pacific Aikido Federation) is Aikikai.
so ?

have you read his bio ?

I have taken classes from him.


Ki Aikido is more a style with a lineage like Iwama Ryu is.

Aikikai is not a style - it's umbrella organization of many styles.

Last edited by kironin : 08-31-2004 at 08:48 AM.

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Old 08-31-2004, 11:00 AM   #15
Tatiana
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Talking Re: Ki Aikido

LOL! Ok..... Adrenalin 99,9%..... 100% on its way... LOL!

Quote:
Aleksey Sundeyev wrote:
Ki Aikido practitioners have the ability to fly above trees, but usually only when inside an aircraft or, in less fortunate cases, after being shot from a catapult.
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Old 08-31-2004, 11:08 AM   #16
Tatiana
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Eek! Re: Ki Aikido

OMG!!!! I've never been one for adrenalin... But that must be so much fun!!! Kool!!!

Quote:
Dave Organ wrote:
LOL - I always wanted to try that; get shot from a catapult (or better; a trebuchet) off Angel Falls wearing a parachute.

That'd be fun!!!
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Old 08-31-2004, 11:13 AM   #17
Tatiana
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Tongue Re: Ki Aikido

Hey Guys...! Thanks for the help!! I never thought that I would get so many replys!!!! Thanks to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

((hugzz))
Tat
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Old 08-31-2004, 12:10 PM   #18
Tatiana
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Question Re: Ki Aikido

One more question.. I know I should post this in the language forum... But... What is GI????? I've seen it all over the show, and I still don't know what it is... Thanks in advance guys!!!

((HUGZ))
Tat
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Old 08-31-2004, 01:35 PM   #19
DaveO
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Re: Ki Aikido

The Gi is the white uniform worn by students.

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 08-31-2004, 02:01 PM   #20
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Ki Aikido

Ok, actually, the gi doesn't exist...

We wear a DOGI when we train. Gi is the shortened (and really improper) version of dogi.

Pedantically yours,
Ron (saw Ellis sign one this way, couldn't help but imitate him )

Ron Tisdale
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Old 08-31-2004, 02:31 PM   #21
shihonage
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Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote:
so ?

have you read his bio ?

I have taken classes from him.


Ki Aikido is more a style with a lineage like Iwama Ryu is.

Aikikai is not a style - it's umbrella organization of many styles.
Judge a tree by the fruit it bears, not by the man who planted it.

There are no separate "ki exercises" during class.
There are no "ki tests" during exams.
"Ki" is hardly ever mentioned during training, which is pretty much 100% focused on technique.

Two people in this thread already mentioned the "ki practice" as the key trait by which Ki Aikido dojos can be identified.
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Old 08-31-2004, 03:06 PM   #22
DaveO
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Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Aleksey Sundeyev wrote:
Judge a tree by the fruit it bears, not by the man who planted it.

There are no separate "ki exercises" during class.
There are no "ki tests" during exams.
"Ki" is hardly ever mentioned during training, which is pretty much 100% focused on technique.

Two people in this thread already mentioned the "ki practice" as the key trait by which Ki Aikido dojos can be identified.
Errmm.............

I'm trying to figure out the focus of these messages - either Alexsey doesn't know much about ki-aikido or he's trying to make a point I missed.

There are separate ki exercises during class. There are also ki tests during examinations. Ki is discussed very heavily; since it is a critical component of how we train.

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 08-31-2004, 03:19 PM   #23
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Ki Aikido

Aleksey is speaking of Shiohira Sensei, and I have no idea whether or not he (Shiohira Sensei) teaches using the Shin Shin Toitsu methodology...perhaps Aleksey or Craig can clarify...

RT

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Old 08-31-2004, 03:24 PM   #24
Tatiana
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Re: Ki Aikido

AAAAAAANH!!!!!!!!!! So that's what gi is... here we call it a kimono.... Finally!!!!!! The mtseries of life - I mean, Aikido - are being reveald!!! LOL! Thanks!!!!!
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Old 08-31-2004, 03:25 PM   #25
Tatiana
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Re: Ki Aikido

Thanks Ron!! Really apreciated.. All this help that you've been giving me!

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Aleksey is speaking of Shiohira Sensei, and I have no idea whether or not he (Shiohira Sensei) teaches using the Shin Shin Toitsu methodology...perhaps Aleksey or Craig can clarify...

RT
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