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Old 03-16-2007, 05:56 PM   #76
Ecosamurai
 
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
1. Tohei pointing and even going elsewhere and then?
He left and started his own art.
Could you please explain to me how shin shin toitsu aikido is not aikido.

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
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Old 03-17-2007, 06:05 AM   #77
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

IMHO, I would have to agree that sometime we need to look external to find the internal, outside of Aikido to find what is inside of Aikido.

An outside perspective can see where our blind spots are as individuals and as an art.

I welcome to "content" comments and it has impacted by training and my search.

I am curious, there is a lot of mindreading and interpretation to support one's own view about why and for what reasons Pranin and Ikeda have invited Ushiro into our training. But, have they told anyone themselves, in their words, in their thinking, exactly why and for what reasons they did?

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 03-17-2007, 06:11 AM   #78
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Pranin, at least, has said he brought Ushiro in to improve striking in aikido. An explanation of why Ikeda has invited Ushiro can be found here.

Josh Reyer

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Old 03-17-2007, 07:30 AM   #79
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Ikeda Sensei prefaced the talk by explaining why he invited Ushiro Sensei to be an instructor this year. He said that aikido will stagnate if it is not open to many different points of view, and that Ushiro Sensei's approach to karate provides a valuable approach to the study of aikido. .....
....
Mr. Pranin pointed out that O Sensei studied other arts, as has Saotome Sensei, and suggested that students of aikido who avoid exposure to other arts are missing an important opportunity.


Interesting title of one of Ushiro's book. The Foundations of Budo and Knowledge and Practice of Karate as Bujutsu.

Ikeda states in the Japanese magazine "Do"

"The kind of power through kokyu that Ushiro sensei has been teaching is completely different from what is usually thought of as kokyu. All of the people who came to this camp experienced this. It may have been only an introduction to this kind of practice and this kind of power, but I think it was a real plus for people to be able to experience it.
As a teacher, one of the most important considerations is how we are bringing up new people in the art, both now and into the future. There will be no growth if we just repeat what is currently being done.
For ourselves and for the Aikido of the future, it is necessary to completely change the way aikido is practiced. I think we have come to this critical crossroads."


I found these worthy of note
1. "..There will be no growth if we just repeat what is currently being done. ....
2. "...For ourselves and for the Aikido of the future it is necessary to completely change the way aikido is practiced....

I've said it before "The picture of Ikeda at the Aiki expo putting on a white belt and taking a Systema class should accord him the deepest respect."

When I join these with others in Aikido looking outward it seems, that to say "Aikido needs nothing more." or, "Only those IN Aikido, can help Aikido." is a loosing proposition.
Cheers
Dan
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Old 03-17-2007, 09:31 AM   #80
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

"No matter how much they mimic their teachers, those who can't control the movement of their center of gravity are headed for disaster."
Gozo Shioda
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Old 03-17-2007, 10:01 AM   #81
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
I am curious, there is a lot of mindreading and interpretation to support one's own view about why and for what reasons Pranin and Ikeda have invited Ushiro into our training. But, have they told anyone themselves, in their words, in their thinking, exactly why and for what reasons they did?
Try here: https://bujindesign.com/seminar_revi...article_1.html
and here:
http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=11
Quote:
Seminar Review wrote:
Ikeda Sensei prefaced the talk by explaining why he invited Ushiro Sensei to be an instructor this year. He said that aikido will stagnate if it is not open to many different points of view, and that Ushiro Sensei's approach to karate provides a valuable approach to the study of aikido. He also reminded the students that Saotome Sensei has always promoted this idea. This point was supported a few minutes later, when Saotome Sensei made the light-hearted observation that he had been teaching karate and Ushiro Sensei had been teaching aikido, the point being that at the highest levels, there is little difference between the martial arts. Mr. Pranin pointed out that O Sensei studied other arts, as has Saotome Sensei, and suggested that students of aikido who avoid exposure to other arts are missing an important opportunity.

Ushiro Sensei related that he had never met Saotome Sensei before this week, and that he was very pleasantly surprised to learn how alike were their martial arts philosophies and practices. And when Mr. Pranin asked Ushiro Sensei what suggestions he might have that might help the students improve their aikido, he replied: "Things will change if you learn how to attack better. And that's pretty much it." The reaction of the audience to this discussion was one of appreciation, fascination and thoughtfulness. (An audio replay of the entire discussion may be heard at http://www.aikidojournal.com/downloa...dia=radio&id=7.)
(Audio link seems dead, sadly.)

Also Ushiro himself here: https://bujindesign.com/seminar_revi...article_1.html
and here:
Quote:
Ushiro wrote:
The overall issue was a disparity between the words that represent the ideal of aikido, "harmony" and "unification," and the technical aspect. This disparity was clearly evident in practice - specifically, the attacks were weak and not really attacks, and not only responded to the partner (nage) to accommodate or collude with them, but responded in such an extreme manner that they (uke) fell down or were thrown all by themselves.
I started in Saotome's lineage, with a lengthy tour through Saito's, and then returned. We, in our dojo, do not practice in the weakly compliant manner noted by Ushiro Sensei. Attacks are attacks and we correct bad attacks.

When I was training in San Diego, and in my deployments working solo during the first dust-up in Iraq, I began to see the exact same principle operating in both concentration and dissipation, I also saw that many people coming along in training do not always readily perceive that.

Ushiro and Saotome seem to have gone around the circle in opposite directions to come to much the same place. Ushiro's critical observation is on the lack of expression of the concentraion part of the principle, thus the serious risk of missing one half of the whole operating principle involved.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 03-17-2007, 10:13 AM   #82
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
When I join these with others in Aikido looking outward it seems, that to say "Aikido needs nothing more." or, "Only those IN Aikido, can help Aikido." is a loosing proposition.
I understand your point of view. I would like to ask why people outside of aikido are the ones to redeem aikido? Why not inside? What makes outside so much better than inside?

I suspect that when you say aikido you actually mean 'quite a lot of aikido but not all of it'.

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
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Old 03-17-2007, 10:17 AM   #83
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
This audio link is working fine for me right now.

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Old 03-17-2007, 10:30 AM   #84
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Thanks for the clarification on inclusion.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
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Old 03-17-2007, 10:32 AM   #85
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

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I understand your point of view. I would like to ask why people outside of aikido are the ones to redeem aikido? Why not inside? What makes outside so much better than inside?
Maybe these "outsiders" can provide an informed perspective that people inside the art can't have, being too "enmired" in the milieu. Keep in mind that these "outsiders" were once "inside" -- trained in aikido. Maybe as former-insiders, and now having found something that once was part of and crucial to aikido, they have a perspective that aikidoka do not.

I have worked as a communications professional, writer and editor for many years. One thing I've learned, is that you can read your own manuscript a dozen times and still miss typographical errors each time. But hand the 'script to another editor for peer review, and they immediately find the typos.

When we are too immersed in our own "thing," we lose the ability to see objectively. That's when these outsiders can be a help. Not just because they are a fresh set of eyes, but because they also were in your art, and know its history and function. I believe they bear listening to, even if you choose not to take their advice.

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 03-17-2007 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 03-17-2007, 10:34 AM   #86
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Dan:

Your point is well taken. I return to the issue of EGOS. There are a lot of instructors who view seeking knowledge from a variety of sources as some sort of insult and/or disloyalty. Some of those teachers can teach "internal" aspects and others cannot. Regardless of that ability to teach that essential element, the benefits of seeking knowledge from a variety of sources FAR out-weigh the costs (purely my opinion). I have found it remarkably helpful to see the "internal" aspects that I am learning from my teacher presented in another manner and another art. It is easy to become inured by the same training regime. Seeing the "idea" from another perspective can help to better understand and emulate that aspect. If the teacher is unable to convey certain important aspects, then (in my opinion) it is our obligation to ourselves and the art to find that component and incorporate it into our training and application of the art.

Dr. Seisert raised another critical component. An art studied in the vacuum created within itself stands the risk of becoming overly stylized and unrealistic. We should have an obligation within our art to see how it "fits" in the larger world. It comes as a surprise to many that what does work, typically does not resemble the waza, which is essence is kata practice, that happens with set attacks and responses.

marc abrams
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Old 03-17-2007, 01:04 PM   #87
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

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Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
Maybe these "outsiders" can provide an informed perspective that people inside the art can't have, being too "enmired" in the milieu. Keep in mind that these "outsiders" were once "inside" -- trained in aikido. Maybe as former-insiders, and now having found something that once was part of and crucial to aikido, they have a perspective that aikidoka do not.
Perhaps, but I've not seen anything they've said so far that is not still a part of aikido (admittedly not all of it perhaps, but its still here, hence the other thread I started). Having an outside perspective can be helpful but there seem to me to be plenty of insiders with a similar perspective. Given that I've not heard Dan or Mike say anything much more than what I already knew to be true and given that I am an aikidoka (i.e. an insider) I find myself once again wondering why they are here standing on the edge pissing in my pool. Just seems plain rude to me, even if they have good aim.

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
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Old 03-17-2007, 01:26 PM   #88
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Could it also be possible that what they are describing only sounds like what you are thinking of? It's natural for people to look for a common point of reference. Unfortunately, words are often limited in their ability to describe physical sensations and effects.
The cry that keeps coming up on these forums is "You really just have to feel it" to have a true common point of reference. There is a lot of veracity in that exhortation.

As for rudeness, these infernal internet forums are notorious for being poor vehicles of emotion and sentiment. Things said bluntly but without malice, often come out sounding hostile or rude. I have met people who seemed obnoxious online but, when I encountered them in person they were kind, pleasant people. Open and honest, pulling no punches in what they think, but never intentionally unkind or rude. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt until proven sorely mistaken and grossly naive.

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 03-17-2007 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 03-17-2007, 01:29 PM   #89
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Could it also be possible that what they are describing only sounds like what you are thinking of? It's natural for people to look for a common point of reference. Unfortunately, words are often limited in their ability to describe physical sensations and effects.
The cry that keeps coming up on these forums is "You really just have to feel it" to have a true common point of reference. There is a lot of veracity in that exhortation.

As for rudeness, these infernal internet forums are notorious for being poor vehicles of emotion and sentiment. Things said bluntly but without malice, often come out sounding hostile or rude. I have met people who seemed obnoxious online but, when I encountered them in person they were kind, pleasant people. Open and honest, pulling no punches in what they think, but never intentionally unkind or rude. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt until proven sorely mistaken and grossly naive.
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Old 03-17-2007, 01:45 PM   #90
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

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Given that I've not heard Dan or Mike say anything much more than what I already knew to be true and given that I am an aikidoka (i.e. an insider) I find myself once again wondering why they are here standing on the edge pissing in my pool. Just seems plain rude to me, even if they have good aim.

Mike
Sounds like you're taking their necessary generalizations far too personally.

If you understand what they say to be true, and you have the abilities they speak of, obviously they aren't talking about you when they say, "These skills aren't in Aikido like they should be." Frankly, Mike, even if these skills are common and developed throughout all of the KNK and its off-shoots, that still leaves the majority of aikido practioners: the lion's share of those under the Aikikai umbrella, Yoshinkan, and Shodokan. Respected practioners and teachers in those organizations have met Mike, Dan, Ark/Rob, Ushiro, and others, and said, "This is something that should be part of aikido, and is not as much as it should be." Does it matter that people ostensibly outside the fold do the convincing, as long as it's done? IMO, not really.

One could say that internal skills were always a part of the KNK, and so people in other organizations should have been looking there. But that's the beauty of outsiders. They are outside the politics. Tohei's been saying what Mike and Dan are saying for 35 years now. But the KNK and the Aikikai have essentially tuned each other out, each believing they were doing the "right" aikido. If Mike et al had never come on AikiWeb, and you said the same things that they have, do you think it would have been accepted? Some would have said, "Yeah, we already do that." Others would have said, "It's just parlor tricks; it's not martial enough." A lot would have said, "Well, it's all aikido; the only difference is the politics." Why is the KNK so conspicuously absent from the Aiki Expos/Friendship Demos, despite the presence of so many "outsiders"? I'm not casting blame there; I truly don't know why top KNK shihan weren't there. But I suspect whatever reason it is, is also why Mike, Dan, and other "outsiders" have proven to be the catalyst, at least in a small way, for many to re-examine their aikido, and what they should be able to do.

If you agree with Dan and Mike, and understand what they are talking about, then there should be no need to argue with them. You're in a position to help translate what they are saying into an aikido idiom. Blend and redirect, is that not the aikido philosophy?

Josh Reyer

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Old 03-17-2007, 01:49 PM   #91
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

That is of course entirely possible but please bear in mind that I did Tai Chi before aikido and am familiar with a lot of what has been described by Mike Sigman. I also cross train regularly so I'm not particularly inclined to think I'm misconstruing their words.

As to the rudeness issue I agree with you totally as I've had similar experiences meeting people in the real world who I've first encountered online. However I do still find myself wondering who appointed these guys as chief redeemers and saviours of aikido. My own teacher has said often enough that that task is one for Doshu really, until he leads the way the rest of us just have to muddle along as best we can.

Mike

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Old 03-17-2007, 02:26 PM   #92
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Quote:
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Perhaps, but I've not seen anything they've said so far that is not still a part of aikido (admittedly not all of it perhaps
So you once again agree

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
Having an outside perspective can be helpful but there seem to me to be plenty of insiders with a similar perspective. Given that I've not heard Dan or Mike say anything much more than what I already knew to be true.
It will be interesting to meet and see if that is indeed true. I've heard it before. So far, sadly, its always been dissapointing. I've not met anyone in Akido who -actually- has the level of skills I am pursuing. But I am hopeful. I'll research and find some Ki society people. Then see if they can use it in motion in full resistance, then with kicks, punches, chokes and body slams, and maintain it. You know Like you and I do with guys slamming us in MMA attacks and groundwork. You know, the level of understanding that you and I both share from experience.........
As I said , I'm excited. Any suggestions? Since you know everything I discuss- and really haven't heard anything new-
Can I start with you?
Do you know anyone over here in New England who trains like you and I, who also knows everything you know? Seeing how there are so many on the "inside" of Aikido -as you say- they must be all over the place. I was actually a bit shocked to hear this, but hey-good news for me. Do you know where they would be? I'm always up for good training.

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
I find myself once again wondering why they are here standing on the edge pissing in my pool. Just seems plain rude to me, even if they have good aim.
1.First you agreed that what we are discussing is not in all Aikido Meaning others do not know this
2. Then you argued that Tohei is in fact Aikido- not something different so that makes -all- in aikido your peers

As for me doing Aikido and discussing it.
Last time I checked you didn't own the pool. You're just a small fish in it. I find it interesting that so many of YOUR peers disagree with you. In fact we-are training together regularly.... doing Aikido.
I think I will continue to practice Aikido any time I wish, and with whomever I wish. I don't really think you have the authority to govern who trains here. Is that your function in Europe or the UK? I don't think these Aikido teachers who are your seniors do either. I'll have to check. I don't want to step on toes


You are a rather young man. Most of the Aikido practitioners training with me are older then you and many are teachers. You're speaking above your pay grade and being rude at that.
Again, thanks for the uplifting and postive interaction your Aikido teachers have instilled in you. Always nice to read your words about your knowledge and training. Thanks again for your positive contributions here at Aikiweb.
When do you think we can meet and you can show me your Aikido. I'd be happy- at my poor level to learn more of Aikido from you. In fact I look forward to it. There are more then a few fifteen years guys who train with me who would be thrilled with nay new information I can bring back from you Mike. Maybe they would like to come see your stuff and maybe even see us train together too.
Thanks again.
Dan

Last edited by DH : 03-17-2007 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 03-17-2007, 02:30 PM   #93
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Quote:
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I did Tai Chi before aikido and am familiar with a lot of what has been described by Mike Sigman. I also cross train regularly so I'm not particularly inclined to think I'm misconstruing their words.

As to the rudeness issue I agree with you totally as I've had similar experiences meeting people in the real world who I've first encountered online.
That's excellent! Have any of these folks posted reports of what they've felt from you? Would love to read them as well. Maybe you'll do what others have done and have folks come visit to get a hands on sense of what's been discussed.
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Old 03-17-2007, 02:35 PM   #94
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

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Sounds like you're taking their necessary generalizations far too personally.

SNIP

If you understand what they say to be true, and you have the abilities they speak of, obviously they aren't talking about you when
they say, "These skills aren't in Aikido like they should be." Frankly, Mike, even if these skills are common and developed throughout all of the KNK and its off-shoots, that still leaves the majority of aikido practioners: the lion's share of those under the Aikikai umbrella, Yoshinkan, and Shodokan.
Perhaps I am taking things too personally, but when I get PMs from people telling me that I simply don't understand, that Dan Harden is the worlds greatest living budo master I begin to question what exactly he is teaching people really.

As to the rest, as I said in my other post, my teacher has often said that these things are for Doshu to do. I agree with him too, it is the job of the leader of the way to lead. If the Aikikai hasn't listened to these things for the last 35 years what makes anyone think they'll start listening now?

As I said before this basically is just one more in a long series of Ki wars. Been done, many many many times before now.

Mike

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Old 03-17-2007, 02:47 PM   #95
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
It will be interesting to meet and see if that is indeed true. I've heard it before. So far, sadly, its always been dissapointing. I've not met anyone in Akido who -actually- has the level of skills I am pursuing. But I am hopeful. I'll research and find some Ki society people. Then see if they can use it in motion in full resistance, then with kicks, punches, chokes and body slams, and maintain it. You know Like you and I do with guys slamming us in MMA attacks and groundwork. You know, the level of understanding that you and I both share from experience.........
As I said , I'm excited. Any suggestions? Since you know everything I discuss- and really haven't heard anything new-
Can I start with you?
WTF? I've never actually said I can do all of this stuff. Only that I know what you are talking about. I'm trying, trying really hard to get better at it too, and like you say I'm not very old.

Why do you think that being sarcastic reflects well on yourself or your training? Do you think that such petty behaviour endears you and what you do to the people here? As to the rest, if you are as great as you and your supporters around here seem to think you are I've no doubt that you could beat the crap out of me, what would that prove? Only that I'm younger and less experienced than you. So again I ask what sort of ego driven ride you are on coming to an aikido forum to tell everyone that you practice the one true aiki way. That we should all be trying to do what you do (perhaps that is what I'm doing after all in my own way?)

If you really want to stretch yourself go to Exeter in south-west England, my teacher lives near there and I'm sure he'd be happy to show you what I'm talking about. I'll come and watch and hopefully learn something.

It is not an unreasonable question to ask why you are here and what you hope to achieve by being here. You have not answered those questions. Why? What has aikido done to you that you want to change the art to suit yourself? Like you said it's not my pool, but I'm pretty sure it ain't yours either, it's a public one and polite people don't piss in public baths.

Mike

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Old 03-17-2007, 02:48 PM   #96
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Mike
I've only been polite to you and you push and push.
Your words culled in response include-pissing, rude, petty ego-driven etc etc. I suggest you review your replies and the way you comport yourself.


As for the fellows writing you?
I've only ever said I'm a nobody. I talk about Aiki and what it can do. Then I show what I was talking about
I'm confused. You just said you know what Mike and I do.
Are you mad at folks for telling you they now agree with you?
Are you mad because what I have been saying for 12 years on the net is proven to be true?
Are you mad because these Aikido teachers who have trained with me miraculously agree it is Aiki-do?

Pick one issue to be mad at. You're all over the place.
I'm a white belt. Have pitty on us low lifes.

I'll try one more time
listen carefully Mike......
I....Do.....Aikido..
Slow down, slow down
I....Do.....Aikido..

With teachers... your senior... of many years.
We don't care what you think

Again, thanks for the uplifting and postive interaction your Aikido teachers have instilled in you. Always nice to read your words about your knowledge and training. Thanks again for your positive contributions here at Aikiweb.
And thanks for allowing us to do Aiki-do together and learn it.
Good on ya Mike.
Dan

Last edited by DH : 03-17-2007 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 03-17-2007, 03:11 PM   #97
Ecosamurai
 
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Huh?

What part of 'I agree with you on most points' failed to sink in?

Calling someone rude when they are being rude isn't rude in itself. It's honest. I've only really questioned your purpose in being here on an aikido forum. Never your ability. I've also never said I'm particularly great, never said that I can do all the things you guys say you can. I've only said that I understand what you are talking about. Some of which I can do, some I'm sure I can't do.

As to being uplifting and positive, you've not exactly been a beacon of light recently have you? Sarcastic and dismissive aren't exactly uplifitng and positive.

I'm tired of this crap to be honest with you. If you want to 'feel' what I'm talking about I'd suggest a holiday to south-west England in the near future. Like I said before, I'll come and meet you, by you a beer or two after we've trained and hopefully learn something to go along with it. I agree with you Dan in most ways, I also happen to think you're not the only one who can do this stuff and that your presence on an aikido forum smacks of ego driven need to tell everyone else they are doing things wrong and we should be doing it all the way you do it. Perhaps you'd like to post a sarcastic and dismissive response to my valid point about your need to tell the aikido world it is wrong and you are right? Perhaps some of your students and supporters would like to send me PMs indicating that I'm a lowlife and your the greatest martial artist in the world? Does what you teach them make them feel that such behaviour is acceptable? What ever happened to the importance of etiquette in budo? Do you teach that? If not why not?

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
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Old 03-17-2007, 03:18 PM   #98
Josh Reyer
 
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
As to the rest, as I said in my other post, my teacher has often said that these things are for Doshu to do. I agree with him too, it is the job of the leader of the way to lead. If the Aikikai hasn't listened to these things for the last 35 years what makes anyone think they'll start listening now?
Well, for one thing "Doshu" doesn't mean "leader of the way", and his job is not necessarily to lead. "Doshu" basically means "owner of the way". "Master of the Way" in the same sense as "master of the house". The nuance of the word is that he is at the center of the Way. In other words, his office is largely symbolic, and administerial. It's fairly obvious that Doshu does not set policy, at least not by himself beyond his own dojo. Looking to Doshu to make sure ki and aiki skills are properly transmitted is not likely to be a fruitful endeavor. Particularly when his own skills in this area are in doubt.

Quote:
As I said before this basically is just one more in a long series of Ki wars. Been done, many many many times before now.
And so, what's the problem? Let Mike, Dan, and others fight the ki war. Let them take the heat for bluntly saying the things that may need saying.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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Old 03-17-2007, 03:26 PM   #99
Ecosamurai
 
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
Well, for one thing "Doshu" doesn't mean "leader of the way", and his job is not necessarily to lead. "Doshu" basically means "owner of the way". "Master of the Way" in the same sense as "master of the house".
I stand corrected.

Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
And so, what's the problem? Let Mike, Dan, and others fight the ki war. Let them take the heat for bluntly saying the things that may need saying.
The problem is I'm a stubborn guy as is Dan. I still don't quite understand how this all happened when we basically agree. I do think that what Dan does is valuable, but I don't think it is aikido. I don't think that someone with the ego to tell others that what they are doing is wrong and that we should all be doing his stuff is doing aikido at all.

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
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Old 03-17-2007, 03:34 PM   #100
Ellis Amdur
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Re: Dan, Mike, and Aikido

Mike H. wrote:
Quote:
I don't think that someone with the ego to tell others that what they are doing is wrong and that we should all be doing his stuff is doing aikido at all.
Quote:
That's not my aikido!
Shimizu Kenji quoting Ueshiba Morihei yelling at the assembled uchi-deshi when he unexpectedly dropped by practice (and given time period - mid-sixties - your teacher's teacher - Murayama - would have been part of the assembled throng).

Now let's not get our knickers in a twist. I'm not saying Dan or Mike is Ueshiba. Who knows, they might be better.

Last edited by Ellis Amdur : 03-17-2007 at 03:39 PM.

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