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Old 12-26-2005, 02:43 PM   #1
mikem
 
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Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

I'm looking into finding Aikido school i have checked into Nihon Goshin it looks good but i am told it is not recognized as actual aikido and any rank you would receive would not be recognized in a traditional school. i am going to look at a traditional school tonight and am leaning towards it any input????
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Old 12-26-2005, 06:05 PM   #2
MaryKaye
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Answering a question with a question:

What are your goals? Aikido rank is not all that transferrable in general. I train at three dojo, ranking at only one, and neither of the others formally recognizes my rank--on the other hand, it doesn't make any difference in their willingness to teach me. If I wanted to hold rank with them I would have to re-test, which would take a long time--but I'd still be learning while I did it.

If your goal is to learn some aikido, choose the school whose teaching style and environment resonates with you, the teacher(s) whose aikido you admire and want to imitate.

If you have a more specific goal such as "I want to train at Aikikai Hombu in a few years" then the rank question becomes a lot more important. Or if you want to teach within a specific organization, then you need rank in that organization. It all depends on your goals.

Mary Kaye
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Old 12-26-2005, 08:43 PM   #3
mikem
 
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Thank you Mary i think I'm going with the traditional school i liked the instructor, i like the fact of the long tradition. the nihon goshin is not even practiced in japan any longer. i think at my older age I'm gonna go with the tradition. Thank you again
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Old 12-26-2005, 09:29 PM   #4
Sanshouaikikai
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

I tried Nihon Goshin out since there's a school not too far from my house...and let me tell you...I prefer my Wadokai Aikido which is pretty much a very pure and unadulterated style of aikido than Nihon Goshin Aikido. NGA is nice and all...but...I wouldn't call it "Aikido." In fact...it's really just Aikijujitsu mixed with Karate...so...in that regard...it's a lot more like Hapkido. It's cool...but...not my preference. : )
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Old 12-26-2005, 09:49 PM   #5
crbateman
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Nihon Goshin Aikido is a style which developed PARALLEL to O'Sensei's Aikido, rather than from it. Both styles take their origin from DaitoRyu, but little else is common. Nihon Goshin came to the US in the late sixties with Richard Bowe Sensei of New Jersey, a respected MA in his own right, who still teaches, and who has never implied a connection to Aikikai or any of its derivatives. NGA simply does their own thing.
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Old 01-02-2006, 01:19 PM   #6
BenjaminH
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

I've been studying with a traditional dojo for a little bit now.

Due to an inconvenient work schedule I thought I'd check out the other Aikido school in town.... Nihon Goshin.

There are similarities for sure but it has less" Aiki" and the sensei even admitted that. A benefit that I can see in N.G. is it has a quicker learning time than traditional Aikido because there is less a need to "blend" to pull of techniques.
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Old 01-04-2006, 05:00 AM   #7
Amir Krause
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Quote:
Alan M. Rodriguez wrote:
I tried Nihon Goshin out since there's a school not too far from my house...and let me tell you...I prefer my Wadokai Aikido which is pretty much a very pure and unadulterated style of aikido than Nihon Goshin Aikido. NGA is nice and all...but...I wouldn't call it "Aikido." In fact...it's really just Aikijujitsu mixed with Karate...so...in that regard...it's a lot more like Hapkido. It's cool...but...not my preference. : )

You could have written that NGA does not feel like Ueshiba Aikido, rather as something else, and reminds you of Aikijujitsu mixed with Karate. But you can not say it isn't Aikido, since NGA has decided his system is Aikido and he had every right to do that, just like Ueshiba did.
I never practiced NGA (to my best knowledge, there isn't a NGA dojo in Israel). And could not say anything about this system. But I can understand the frustration and feel of misunderstanding a message like yours, confusing Aikido and Ueshiba Aikido, would have created to a practitioner of NGA, since the system I practice (Korindo Aikido) does not consider itself related to Ueshiba either.

Amir
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Old 01-04-2006, 08:47 AM   #8
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Sure I have every right to take everything I have learned from different arts, invent some of my own moves - write my own
system and collection of techniques, open a school and call
it Self-defense Judo.

Hey, I decided to call it Judo so it's Judo.
It's just not Kano's Judo.

--------------------

If you are going to expand the definition of a label to suit your marketing to the public, you can expect that you will encounter others who will disagree with your arbitrary relabeling and feel you are misleading the public.

The thing is, there already is a broad category label for Japanese derived arts that would create no disagreement - "jujutsu"

Nihon Goshin Jujutsu
Korindo Jujutsu

and then

Aikido == Ueshiba derived jujutsu
Judo == Kano derived jujutsu
Daito Ryu == Takeda derived jujutsu
etc.

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Old 01-04-2006, 09:19 AM   #9
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote:
Nihon Goshin Aikido is a style which developed PARALLEL to O'Sensei's Aikido, rather than from it. Both styles take their origin from DaitoRyu, but little else is common. Nihon Goshin came to the US in the late sixties with Richard Bowe Sensei of New Jersey, a respected MA in his own right, who still teaches, and who has never implied a connection to Aikikai or any of its derivatives. NGA simply does their own thing.
This is simply wrong.

Richard Bowe attended seminars by Koichi Tohei Sensei in the 1960's. When he invented his own school, he was told not to call it Aikido. In the sixties, Black Belt magazine was young, it had many favorable articles on Aikido. Aikido was new and mysterious. It's not surprising why he marketed his school as Aikido. You can look at their testing syllabus today and see things that were clearly derived from Tohei Senseis style of teaching. The idea that Richard Bowe had any contact with anything called Aikido in Japan is very doubtful.

Now, does this mean that as a form of jujutsu after 30 years of devoted development by Bowe and his students, NG could not be a great martial art. Absolutely not.

Is it Aikido ?

If Bowe was honest about the history, maybe you could argue that.

Something parallel to Ueshiba. No.

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Old 01-04-2006, 09:49 AM   #10
mikem
 
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Well this thread started off slow but is picking up now lol i when with a traditional school Akidio of Rockland it is affiliated with AAA. any othe AAA affiliated schools on here ???? thanks for all the posts
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Old 01-05-2006, 07:20 AM   #11
Amir Krause
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote:
Sure I have every right to take everything I have learned from different arts, invent some of my own moves - write my own
system and collection of techniques, open a school and call
it Self-defense Judo.

Hey, I decided to call it Judo so it's Judo.
It's just not Kano's Judo.

--------------------

If you are going to expand the definition of a label to suit your marketing to the public, you can expect that you will encounter others who will disagree with your arbitrary relabeling and feel you are misleading the public.

The thing is, there already is a broad category label for Japanese derived arts that would create no disagreement - "jujutsu"

Nihon Goshin Jujutsu
Korindo Jujutsu

and then

Aikido == Ueshiba derived jujutsu
Judo == Kano derived jujutsu
Daito Ryu == Takeda derived jujutsu
etc.

Craig

Historically speaking, Ueshiba does NOT have any ownership on the label Aikido. The name Aikido was invented by the Dai-Nihon-Butokukai for Practical Yawara, or Ju-jutsu if you prefer, and Ueshiba adopted it, not the other way around. Hence:
"Aikido == Ueshiba derived jujutsu" is simply untrue, It's not an identity, rather just labeling.

As far as Korindo Aikido, Hirai had every right to use the label Aikido. Neither you nor me could argue with him with regard to the meaning of the term Aikido since Hirai was the chair of the committee that coined the term "Aikido".
I don't know about the history of NGA, nor why did the founder of this system decide to use the term Aikido. But having read an interview with Hirai about the meaning of the name, it was meant as a category definition, not just a single M.A. Hence, Hirai would probably have welcomed other M.A. with "Aikido" as part of their name.

By the way, if you will look more closely at it, you will find that Kano called his art "Kodokan Judo" and Judo was a more general term (It particularly referred to Jikishin Ryu, at least a century before Kano, see: http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14342). Would you like to blame Kano for being "misleading" ?


P.S. I have taken a look at a NGA web site and they consider their founder to be Shodo Morita, not Richard Bowe. I have never studied this issue, and could not attest to the credibility of the history written there.


Amir
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Old 01-05-2006, 07:36 AM   #12
beanchild
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

FWIW, I study NGA, and yes we do consider the founder to be Shodo Morita, rather than Sensai Bowe.

And Benjamin, there is a surprising amount of blending associated with NGA. Perhaps not quite the circles as large as in, say Tomiki, which I have also studied, but blending is an integral part of our mindset.
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Old 01-05-2006, 08:31 AM   #13
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Hello Craig. Although I always find your posts very useful, I have to disagree with you here. Richard Bowe did not invent NGA, never has claimed to. He was simply the first American to bring it to the U.S. He claims lineage from extensive training in Japan under Shodo Morita, who is credited as the founder of NGA, as well as the one who sanctioned the use of the term "aikido". Shodo Morita derived his art from aspects of his training in Daito-Ryu, Judo, Karate, Kobudo and other "esoteric" arts. His Daito-Ryu training came from Yoshita Kotaro, direct student of Sokaku Takeda.

The connection you make to O'Sensei through Richard Bowe's attendance at some of Koichi Tohei's seminars is, in my opinion, superficial, and simply can't be used to define NGA. It was certainly not uncommon in Japan in those days for budoka to be curious about, and seek training in, many other arts. Bowe was probably influenced on some level by Tohei Sensei (how could one not be?), but Bowe's presence at Tohei seminars probably had little effect on what Shodo Morita was doing in his NGA system.

Rather than seizing an opportunity to exploit even the slightest connection to O'Sensei, NGA has steadfastly disavowed any such references, and continued to point to their lineage from many of the same sources that O'Sensei happened to use for his own development. I can respect that, have seen nothing substantive to refute it, and that is why I used the world "parallel" to describe the development of NGA. FWIW.
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Old 01-05-2006, 07:17 PM   #14
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

While it may be true that the Nihon Goshin Founder trained under the elder Yoshida, from what I have seen of Nihon Goshin Aikido, there is very little left of that influence left in what passes for Nihon Goshin Aikido now. My only direct exposure to what Yoshida taught comes from my training with Angier Sensei who trained under the younger Yoshia when he came to the States. If what Angier Sensei is doing is in any way related to what the elder Yoshida taught (which I believe it is), then Nihon Goshin Aikido retained almost none of it. I have see some Nihon Goshin Aikido here, including some video footage of one of their senior instructors, and it just looks like a simplified, more physical Aikido, with very little Aiki. They like to bill themselves as doing a more martial version of Aikido but from what I have seen it's simply not true, at least not when compared to what I've been taught as Aikido. As for the kind of almost magical subtlety you'd get from training with Angier Sensei doing Yanagi Ryu, his former students like Richard Elias etc. teaching the Yoshida derived system, or even Toby Threadgill Sensei who teaches Takamura Ha Shindo Ryu but trained extensively with Angier Sensei, it's completely missing from Nihon Goshin Aikido as it's generally presented now. It may have had that when it was founded in Japan, it may even have still had it as taught by the senior American who brought it from Japan... I don't know because I have never seen him. But what I have seen is a fairly simplified system of jiu jutsu with very little Aiki and in that sense its use of the term Aikido is open to question in my opinion.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
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Old 01-06-2006, 04:05 AM   #15
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Looks like an Aikido to me - not my Aikido, maybe not anyone else's on this thread either - but an Aikido:

http://www.ngaikido.com/video.asp

Last edited by senshincenter : 01-06-2006 at 04:08 AM.

David M. Valadez
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Old 01-06-2006, 04:53 AM   #16
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Another FWIW, I studied Nihon Goshin intensely for about a year and a half, then moved a few times and have been studying Aikikai for the past... maybe two years.

I remember that the techniques were a lot harder on the joints and their presentation was very different from what I am studying now. Also, we did some kind of self-defense drill almost every class; we defended against a line of attackers or a group, with random weapons and any attack allowed. The latter difference could very well be due to my former Sensei.

Although I probably lack the experience in both... styles, whatever... to really compare them, I have described Nihon Goshin as being 'more jiu-jitsuish' to some friends at my current dojo. But it did seem like the 'magic', the aiki, was there.

Ledyard Sensei certainly has the experience to make a sound evaluation, so I'm going to keep the question open for myself.

What I can say is that my former Sensei gave me a love of "aikido", and I continue to train and intend to until old age or injury forces me to stop. Since you have chosen a traditional style, I recommend visiting the Nihon Goshin dojo when you can. The different perspectives will definitely add depth to your aikido.

Good luck, and have fun!

BTW, nice vids - good find!

Last edited by sullivanw : 01-06-2006 at 05:06 AM. Reason: addendum
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Old 01-06-2006, 05:44 AM   #17
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote:
P.S. I have taken a look at a NGA web site and they consider their founder to be Shodo Morita, not Richard Bowe. I have never studied this issue, and could not attest to the credibility of the history written there.
Amir

I know what is claimed on their website.

This is old news. Has been hashed out many times years ago
as to what Bowe claims.

As to whatever rationalization you want to use for calling something Aikido, obviously you can do it. Would you be using it if Ueshiba had not adopted it and then his students spread the name world wide ? I have my opinion. May not be P.C. but ...

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Old 01-06-2006, 06:34 AM   #18
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote:
Rather than seizing an opportunity to exploit even the slightest connection to O'Sensei, NGA has steadfastly disavowed any such references, and continued to point to their lineage from many of the same sources that O'Sensei happened to use for his own development. I can respect that, have seen nothing substantive to refute it, and that is why I used the world "parallel" to describe the development of NGA. FWIW.
To believe what you wrote you have to know almost nothing about the history of Aikido on the east coast. I respect that coming in and looking at the picture several decades later, you may feel that you have to take claims at face value, however the memories of old men and the deceased paint a very very different picture.

Let me be clear. I am not saying Bowe claimed to invent NGA, I am saying that he did invent it and then invented a lineage back to Japan for it upon opening his school in his small town in the late 60's - early 70's period. How common is that story in the martial arts ? (rhetorical question). Fast forward a few decades to the world wide web where anything passes for fact if dressed up enough. Whether or not it would stand up to the kind of careful historical research Stanely Pranin does is another matter.

again says nothing about NGA as an effective martial art, that is not at issue.

but passing it off as having some kind of direct parallel connection to Daito Ryu and therefore being an example non-Ueshiba related "aikido",

please.

only generational amnesia allows that to be taken seriously.

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Old 01-06-2006, 08:56 AM   #19
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Quote:
Maxine Henry wrote:
FWIW, I study NGA, and yes we do consider the founder to be Shodo Morita, rather than Sensai Bowe.

And Benjamin, there is a surprising amount of blending associated with NGA. Perhaps not quite the circles as large as in, say Tomiki, which I have also studied, but blending is an integral part of our mindset.
Sorry, I made assumptions based on a small period of observations. I also went on the sensei saying they do less of a blend than traditional Aikido, still blending just less I supposes. (Also I might add that the Sensei was a very nice person, and I have no intention of misrepresenting his words.) I'll take your word for it
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Old 01-06-2006, 09:20 AM   #20
Derek Gaudet
 
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

My old Dojo was a mix between Aikikai and Nihon Goshin, O sensei was in our shomen area... My instructor just called it Goshin Aikido. We were mixed because my Sensei's teacher had ranks in both Aikikai and Nihon Goshin, both organizations got word of this I believe (If memory serves) and he was dismissed from both, due to the fact he was teaching a blend. So he changed from writing Nihon goshin on everything to Goshin... I've seen other styles around, Other then the way the attacks are preformed the techniques seemed to remain the same. But grain of salt, for we may be one of those Nihon Goshin styles that moved away from it's origins, therefore we may have been more influenced by O Sensei. Really though it's been mentioned Aikido is a label, much like Karate. Some schools of karate punch with a vertical fist others horizontal, does it mean one should give up the name karate... If you want to get particular you put a name in front of it. I.E. Chito Ryu Karate, Shorin Ryu Karate. Same with Aikido, Nihon Goshin Aikido, Aikikai Aikido, Yoshinkan Aikido. It's in my opinion The name in front of the label that allows you to distinguish between them. Different founders are gonna cause little differences, doesn't mean one's better, or right more than the other. It's a matter of preference. Remember, GRAIN OF SALT.

Kind Regards,
Derek Gaudet
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Old 01-06-2006, 12:28 PM   #21
John Carter
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

I am a 20 year practitioner of Nihon Goshin Aikido. I currently teach the art in Columbia, SC. My sensei is Steven Weber, Go-Dan, who trained directly under Shihan Bowe during the 70's. Sensei Weber is Shihan Bowe's senior student and instructor in the United States. Over the years many of our instructors have either trained in other styles of Aikido, seen technique of high ranking Aikido-ka, or have taught students from other dojos. Speaking for myself, I have obviously seen and felt the technique of Mr. Weber and Shihan Bowe. I have also seen and felt the technique of the late Toyoda Sensei of the Aikido Association of America. Additionally, Mr. Weber was invited by him to go to Japan and train at the Hombu dojo. His experiences with Toyoda Sensei were numerous. I also have seen and experienced the technique of John Waite of the British Aikido Association. Being located in South Carolina, I have seen Suenaka's technique and have worked with some of his former students. We also have two Aikido clubs here that represent Aikikai, and Seidokan. In all of my experiences thus far, I have to say even though all the styles have differences, including Nihon Goshin, they all have common threads. Irimi, tenkan, ki, immobilization's, projections, joint-locks etc. Developing an opinion from certain practitioners of any art, cannot always be applied to all practitioners of an art. Some may be more jiu-jitsu oriented, or judo, larger circles, smaller, more atemi.... That doesn't mean the art Shihan Bowe learned in Japan wasn't Aikido. Those claiming that he invented the art and utilized the word "Aikido" for what he was teaching in New Jersey, probably have not been through his historical documents, certificates, and pictures, etc. from Hokkaido, Japan.
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Old 01-06-2006, 01:48 PM   #22
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Quote:
John Carter wrote:
I am a 20 year practitioner of Nihon Goshin Aikido. I currently teach the art in Columbia, SC. My sensei is Steven Weber, Go-Dan, who trained directly under Shihan Bowe during the 70's. Sensei Weber is Shihan Bowe's senior student and instructor in the United States. Over the years many of our instructors have either trained in other styles of Aikido, seen technique of high ranking Aikido-ka, or have taught students from other dojos. Speaking for myself, I have obviously seen and felt the technique of Mr. Weber and Shihan Bowe. I have also seen and felt the technique of the late Toyoda Sensei of the Aikido Association of America. Additionally, Mr. Weber was invited by him to go to Japan and train at the Hombu dojo. His experiences with Toyoda Sensei were numerous. I also have seen and experienced the technique of John Waite of the British Aikido Association. Being located in South Carolina, I have seen Suenaka's technique and have worked with some of his former students. We also have two Aikido clubs here that represent Aikikai, and Seidokan. In all of my experiences thus far, I have to say even though all the styles have differences, including Nihon Goshin, they all have common threads. Irimi, tenkan, ki, immobilization's, projections, joint-locks etc. Developing an opinion from certain practitioners of any art, cannot always be applied to all practitioners of an art. Some may be more jiu-jitsu oriented, or judo, larger circles, smaller, more atemi.... That doesn't mean the art Shihan Bowe learned in Japan wasn't Aikido. Those claiming that he invented the art and utilized the word "Aikido" for what he was teaching in New Jersey, probably have not been through his historical documents, certificates, and pictures, etc. from Hokkaido, Japan.
Actually, what I have seen is similar to generic Aikido but with less movement. I am intrigued more by the story of the founding in Japan which seems to tie into Yoshida Sensei. Of course the Yoshida family had their own style and the senior Yoshida was also a teacher of Daito Ryu... From what I have seen of the art. I can't see much evidence of the Yanagi Ryu nor would I say much of the more sophisticated, more aiki aspect of Daito Ryu made the transition to the States. Someone who knows more about Daito Ryu might be able to see the relationship since Daito Ryu has a number of levels which have to be worked through. It's possible the Japanese founder of Nihon Goshin Aikido only had a limited exposure to the Daito Ryu techniques taught by Yoshida Sensei although that would be simply conjecture on my part since I am not knowledegeable enough about Daito ryu to say what part of their curriculum something might have come out of.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 01-06-2006, 02:24 PM   #23
crbateman
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Bowing out...
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Old 01-06-2006, 04:41 PM   #24
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote:
To believe what you wrote you have to know almost nothing about the history of Aikido on the east coast. I respect that coming in and looking at the picture several decades later, you may feel that you have to take claims at face value, however the memories of old men and the deceased paint a very very different picture.

Let me be clear. I am not saying Bowe claimed to invent NGA, I am saying that he did invent it and then invented a lineage back to Japan for it upon opening his school in his small town in the late 60's - early 70's period. How common is that story in the martial arts ? (rhetorical question). Fast forward a few decades to the world wide web where anything passes for fact if dressed up enough. Whether or not it would stand up to the kind of careful historical research Stanely Pranin does is another matter.

again says nothing about NGA as an effective martial art, that is not at issue.

but passing it off as having some kind of direct parallel connection to Daito Ryu and therefore being an example non-Ueshiba related "aikido",

please.

only generational amnesia allows that to be taken seriously.

Hi Craig,

Are you saying that Bowe never ever trained with Shodo Morita? Or, are you saying that there is no such person as "Shodo Morita"?

I have no affiliation here - just curious about this lineage stuff.
Interesting.

thanks,
dmv

David M. Valadez
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Old 01-09-2006, 08:47 AM   #25
Amir Krause
Dojo: Shirokan Dojo / Tel Aviv Israel
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Re: Traditional Aikido vs Nihon Goshin

Quote:
John Carter wrote:
I am a 20 year practitioner of Nihon Goshin Aikido. I currently teach the art in Columbia, SC. My sensei is Steven Weber, Go-Dan, who trained directly under Shihan Bowe during the 70's. Sensei Weber is Shihan Bowe's senior student and instructor in the United States. Over the years many of our instructors have either trained in other styles of Aikido, seen technique of high ranking Aikido-ka, or have taught students from other dojos. Speaking for myself, I have obviously seen and felt the technique of Mr. Weber and Shihan Bowe. I have also seen and felt the technique of the late Toyoda Sensei of the Aikido Association of America. Additionally, Mr. Weber was invited by him to go to Japan and train at the Hombu dojo. His experiences with Toyoda Sensei were numerous. I also have seen and experienced the technique of John Waite of the British Aikido Association. Being located in South Carolina, I have seen Suenaka's technique and have worked with some of his former students. We also have two Aikido clubs here that represent Aikikai, and Seidokan. In all of my experiences thus far, I have to say even though all the styles have differences, including Nihon Goshin, they all have common threads. Irimi, tenkan, ki, immobilization's, projections, joint-locks etc. Developing an opinion from certain practitioners of any art, cannot always be applied to all practitioners of an art. Some may be more jiu-jitsu oriented, or judo, larger circles, smaller, more atemi.... That doesn't mean the art Shihan Bowe learned in Japan wasn't Aikido. Those claiming that he invented the art and utilized the word "Aikido" for what he was teaching in New Jersey, probably have not been through his historical documents, certificates, and pictures, etc. from Hokkaido, Japan.

One Question, that is essential in view of Craig statements in this thread with regard to NGA:
Did you, your sensei or another of student aside from your teacher, ever train NGA in Japan ? Or did you have any seminar with Japanese teachers of your style ?
Do you know of other students of Shodo Morita ?


Myself, and several other vetran students of Korindo Aikido have gone to train in Japan for short periods of time (wish I could train for longer) and our dojo did bring one of the Shihan to teach here. I have also met students of other dojo's around the world, all connected trough the Japanese "Hombu dojo" and organization.
Did you have any similar experiance in NGA ?


Amir
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