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Old 10-21-2005, 10:45 AM   #1
"aiki-G"
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aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

Hello to all at aikiweb,

I'm a young aikidoka (in toronto) and I've been training for a few months more than one year. I haven't yet graded, but I'm planning to in the next month (many of the senior grades have told me I ought to double grade to 5th kyu, since I've been showing good progress and am proficient with 1-15 of my randori no-kata. I'm personally not so fussed; whichever grade I get doesn't affect the material I learn).

Aikido is going great, and I am really enjoying it but there's just one tiny thing that gets the better of me every lesson. There's another aikidoka who started a month after I did (so he's been training for 14 months), and he was ok for a while. There was a bit of a problem with training cause he's much larger than me, I think he's an amature body-builder, and I'm still in high school so I'm much smaller than him and had trouble doing techniques on him. As I was saying, he was ok before, but in the past half year I'd been training with other people who were of similar size so I can really focus on my technique (I understand it can be very good to train with larger people so my techniques are more effective, but I still class myself as a beginner so I think I should get a good handle on the techniques before worrying about their effectiveness on someone twice my size). Thing is I've had to pair up with him again cause were training for gradings and he's made it very well known that he want's to go for yellow, so we go through kata cause were doing the same things. Also I have little choice on whether I go with him for randori cause Sensei pretty much says 'you and you up, you two off'. You go with who you're given (which does have it's benefits, I know).

Ok, so to the heart of the matter, he was ok before but now he's become very aggresive. He put's techniques on way too hard (seriously he did a mae-otoshi and drove it through so hard it nearly tore the ligaments in my shoulder. I never got a chance to tell him it was too hard, and I tried to go into my ukemi slightly early so it wouldn't put the full force of it on my shoulder again, but he locked my arm so tightly in place I could only go when he let me). This could be seen as good technique, but only on the right people I think. Isn't part of this about restraint? I mean I'm only like 110 pounds so there's no need for this huge guy to throw me like I'm the next heavy weight champion. He likes to take this as he's a very good aikidoka who can throw anyone as hard as possible... maybe mistaking it for effectiveness. His techniques are effective on me, too effective, but I'm the smallest person in the class and he can't stay standing against many of the other aikidokas.
He's also very... inappropriate, for lack of a better word. He'll make a huge joke out of hikitategeiko (passive) with me; it's great to have a few laughs, sure, but this is more like he'll grab my wrist and just shake it around (which for a guy his size, fair enough it's good enough to get me off-balance) and then start laughing at me. Once in the middle of doing kata he actually tickled me for christ's sake... I had to use so much self-restraint to stop from slapping him one. He also acts a certain way with the small female population of the dojo; another girl at the dojo said she notice how his hands seem to 'have a mind of their own', and with me he just makes very inappropriate comments. One time I messed up hiki-taoshi and he said something like 'girls are meant to be better with their hips, but I guess you'll have to wait till you've had kids'.

Now, everytime I tell him to quit being such a jerk (ok not in those words) he just laughs it off and says he's doing no harm.. my shoulder would disagree. I'd go to sensei, I really would, but no one other than me and the other girl notice it as such a problem; a few middle ranked kyu grades have commented on him being rough, but they don't really complain cause they're similar sizes to him so they can take it. There are a lot of people in our dojo so it's not often noticed by the senior instructors.. I don't want to cause a huge hassle out of it, I'm sure he'll say I never once complained or some other moronic comment like that. I really just want some advice of how to get this issue out and open to the senior instructors. I can just see it as being something that most people wouldn't take seriously/wouldn't really get dealt with... It's not like people in the dojo don't take me seriously; they know I'm serious about it. It's just... a difficult issue to bring up for me; I'm not used to complaining.
Thanks for any help, aiki-G
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:07 PM   #2
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

If I were you, I would talk to the head instructor about it. If he's a smart man, he will talk to that fellow and tell him to lay off. He should do it without saying who said what. If he doesn't like it, then he should be shown the door. He should be given a chance though because some people are boors and don't know it.
Hope things work out for the best.
Sincerely,

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:40 PM   #3
Trish Greene
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

I would have the Sensei use him exclusively as his Uke for a while too... hee!

I have heard from others about how good of an ego check that is for arrogance.....
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Old 10-21-2005, 01:43 PM   #4
CaseyD
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

Sorry to hear about your situation. I'd say you need to confront him (in a calm, rational way). Tell him that you find his behavior very inappropriate, and that he needs to train with people in a cooperative manner. I think you will feel better about yourself if you try to handle it yourself first, and then speak to your sensei if you need to.
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Old 10-21-2005, 03:04 PM   #5
Qatana
 
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

Talk to Your Sensei. Now.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 10-21-2005, 04:23 PM   #6
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

Yes, go talk to your sensei. I know it might feel difficult, but all the teacher's I know, take safety in training VERY seriously. In the end, you'll be doing not only yourself, but also your sensei and even your bullying partner a favor.

kvaak
Pauliiina
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Old 10-21-2005, 04:24 PM   #7
aikidoc
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

From you post it appears you are a young female and he is older. The rough treatment is inappropriate and the behavior may be tantamont to sexual harrassment. I would talk to the sensei and let him know you would prefer not to be paired with him. Not making waves and getting yourself injured would be unfortunate. If he is roughing you up he is likely roughing up others.
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Old 10-21-2005, 05:50 PM   #8
Janet Rosen
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

This is another firm female voice saying Talk To Your Sensei Now.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:17 PM   #9
Qatana
 
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

And when you have straightened out the situation, its time to start training with Bigger People. so that if some other newbie comes into the dojo and tries to bully you, you will be able to chuck him across the room.
I'm the smallest person in my dojo and after three years I can handle a little resistance from the Big Guys, sometimes I can actually manage the technique!

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:22 PM   #10
Karen Wolek
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

I'm with the others. Talk to Sensei the very next time you see him. If not sooner.

Karen
"Try not. Do...or do not. There is no try." - Master Yoda
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:00 PM   #11
Simbo
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

I would say after the next incident write a letter to him and send a copy to your Sensei too. That way if it happens he wouldn't be able to say you've never mentioned it before. Just my personal philosophy on it that if something's in writing its harder to deny.
Also in my opinion, trying to fix a bad situation isn't complaining. Just like tapping out when you're having a technique applied to you. Now if somebody's tapping long after their arm's been let out of the pin and you're begining to bow out, that's more akin to the negative complaining
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Old 10-23-2005, 12:01 AM   #12
Lorien Lowe
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

Be brave. Let us all know what happens, if it's not too uncomfortable.
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Old 10-23-2005, 04:09 AM   #13
bogglefreak20
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

Considering you're serious about Aikido and all of your fellow students and your sensei know that plus given the fact you have already tried to settle the matter with the guy in question, you should IMO talk to your sensei. You have every right to raise an issue about someone who is not able or willing to realise the limits of his training partners. Being focused on one's partner and his/her limitations is essential - out of spirit of Aikido as much as out of the fact that ignoring your partner can cause injury.

Make it clear to your sensei that you have no problem taking ukemi from bigger people in general, it's just this particular person that seems to keen on getting things done his way regardless of the consequences. Also let your sensei know that you have already made an effort to resolve the matter one-on-one but to no avail.

As far as innapropriate comments and/or "hands having their own mind" go make sure you let this guy know clearly that he's stepping over the line and that you find his actions or words offensive. If not sooner, then at the next incident. If that doesn't work, naturally talk to your sensei.

Beatus Qui Venit In Nomine Domini!
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Old 10-23-2005, 07:23 AM   #14
merlynn
 
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

hun i think im with every one TALK TO YOUR SENSEI NOW ! on the other hand you could nikkiyo him in to admitting what a jerk he is

some things are so dear and so precious you have to let them go
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Old 10-23-2005, 07:24 AM   #15
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

Hello,

I assume you are training under the eye of your sensei, so I am surprised that he/she has not seen what is happening. Is this because there are many people training, or because your sensei is not 'hands-on' in his/her teaching, so to speak?

As a teacher, I would find it unbelievable that one of my own students would have to resort to the Internet for advice on how to solve a problem that should be staring me in the face.

Best regards,

P A Goldsbury
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Old 10-23-2005, 10:16 AM   #16
Andrew Espino Sr.
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

If you deem your sensei un-approachable, go to the asst. instructor or sempai. It may take another session for him to see the incident, and step in. Or, inform the cheif instructor of the behavior. Sound like a slice of humble pie is in order for that boy! Also tell him/her/them of the inapropreiate hands and comments. The sensei MUST be told about this kind of conduct. It is dis-respectfull,as well as unacceptable. Thats how law suits happen; and schools get a bad rep. Although I am not an aikdoka; I am an instructor in our style of m.a. (Hapkido). That is an instructors nightmare! Hopefully the incident can be resolved in a mutually acceptable manner. Also, learn to deal with a larger opponent. You can choose your uke sometimes; but never your attacker. Good luck, and keep practicing! A. E.
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Old 10-23-2005, 02:26 PM   #17
justin
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

i was thinking the same as peter strange this hasnt been spoted before, but agree with everyone else go to the top it will make your feel much better i am sure.

good luck happy training
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Old 10-23-2005, 03:28 PM   #18
giriasis
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

Quote:
He also acts a certain way with the small female population of the dojo; another girl at the dojo said she notice how his hands seem to 'have a mind of their own', and with me he just makes very inappropriate comments.
Say some thing, NOW. He is one of those Actual Very Real True Jerks (TM). That crosses the line. Trust your instincts on this one. You are getting a very real self-defense lesson on the mat, unfortunately.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 10-24-2005, 09:24 AM   #19
ian
 
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

to reiterate: Talk to your sensei now!

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 10-24-2005, 11:46 AM   #20
pezalinski
 
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Exclamation Re: aggressive and arrogant aikidoka

Talk to your sensei -- and start looking for another place to train.

This kind of behavior, in class, is easily observable -- if the teacher in question bothers to pay attention. As an instructor, you may not see the actual indiscretions, but you'll notice a pattern of behavior in how he parters up with people and how the females tend to avoid him or are reluctant to partner with him again. If his behavior is either acceptable, or in your teachers mental "blind spot," then it's not a healthy place for you to train. Find a less sexually-harassing place to learn Aikido.


A little danger is a knowledge thing...

"Helping the planet make an impact on people, since 1985"
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Old 10-25-2005, 01:56 PM   #21
roosvelt
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

Agree with others. Talk to your sensei but look for other jodo.

Your sensei must have known the aggressive aikidoka's behaviour unless he's blind.

I train in Aikikai style of Aikido. I know of a Toronto dojo of rough reputation. My sensei adviced us not to go to their free seminar with a Shihan unless you're real good at ukemi.

There many good dojo in Toronto. You don't have to feel being stuck with a unhappy one. There are also so many good femal instructors that you can go to like Yumi, Laura, and Fran.

Good luck.
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Old 10-25-2005, 02:34 PM   #22
Ron Tisdale
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

Quote:
I train in Aikikai style of Aikido. I know of a Toronto dojo of rough reputation. My sensei adviced us not to go to their free seminar with a Shihan unless you're real good at ukemi.
If it's the Yoshinkan dojo under Kimeda Sensei, they are tough, but as far as I know, they are a safe place to train. They teach very specific ukemi (like most Yoshinkan schools) so if you're not familiar with the ukemi, just let your partner know, and you should be fine. I've trained with many people from that school, and never had any problem what-so-ever.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
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Old 10-26-2005, 06:17 AM   #23
Susan Marie
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

I second what Ron has written. I trained at Kimeda Sensei's dojo for a year and a half when I lived in Toronto. Kimeda Sensei's students are very spirited in their training, but still conscious of each other's safety. He has expelled students for injuring others, even black belts have been told to leave.

Aiki G, talk to your sensei or if you're not comfortable with that talk to a senior instructor about these incidents. If it's not dealt with then move on to another dojo.

"Those who are possessed by nothing, possess everything."
O'Sensei
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Old 10-26-2005, 07:28 AM   #24
roosvelt
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Blush! Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
If it's the Yoshinkan dojo under Kimeda Sensei, they are tough, but as far as I know, they are a safe place to train.
Ron
It's not Yoshinkan dojo under Kimeda Sensei. It's a Aikikai style school. I don't have first hand experience with that dojo.

But my sensei told us that when he's a young white belt, the sensei from that dojo was rough with him. This year, a middle aged ungraded white belt from my dojo got similar treatment from his students.

Most people assume a white belt don't know hard ukemi unless prove otherwise. They assume you can do breakfall, you just don't know it yet yourself.

I have no question to doubt my sensei's remark. The aforementioned white belt is a Major from army. He's a sandan in Karate. He's involed in all the recent wars. His last stint was 3 years in Afganistan. If he complaints they're rough, I don't doubt him either.

But that dojo has some instructors (technically) and has produced many good aikidoka (technically). I guess it maybe a different approach to Aikido.

I know nothing about Yoshinkan dojo personally. Mabye this Aikikai dojo is a penut in term of roughness
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Old 10-26-2005, 09:18 AM   #25
Qatana
 
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Re: aggresive and arrogant aikidoka

[quote=Roosvelt Freeman]

Most people assume a white belt don't know hard ukemi unless prove otherwise. They assume you can do breakfall, you just don't know it yet yourself.

I have had the opposite experience. I visited my Sensei's "home dojo" to train. I am a 4th kyu & wear a blue belt. I was partnered with a man in a white belt who not only did not pay attention to my request to please let me Roll out of the throw, instead he continued to throw me into higher & higher breakfalls. All The While, beratrng me for "not taking care of HIS needs as uke".
Fortunatly I have no qualmsabout refusing to train with this
person ever again. I would rather simply bow off the mat and go get a bottle of water.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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