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Old 08-02-2005, 07:21 AM   #1
Ilja Leonard Pfeijffer
Dojo: Shi Zen Ryu
Location: Leiden
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 11
Hachi no ji jo suburi

Before I pose my question, it seems polite to briefly introduce myself, for this is my first posting on these forums, although I have passively been enjoying these forums for quite some time and I am very grateful for everything I learned from all your contributions. My name is Ilja Leonard Pfeijffer. I have been doing aikido for about six years now, so I am very much a beginner. I train at Shi Zen Ryu dojo in Leiden, the Netherlands, with Tom Verhoeven sensei.

My question is about the name of the jo suburi called "hachi no ji", which would translate as "figure eight". As you know, the technique consists in holding the jo in one hand and making it swirl in vertical circles alternately along both sides of the body. Then, in fact, both ends of the jo describe a pattern similar to the figure 8 (one circle left of your body, one circle right, and the point where they meet exactly in front of you). So it seems quite obvious that this movement is called "figure eight", except that in Japanese eight is not written as 8. Yet, the description seems too perfect not to derived from the western figure 8. Alternatively, the name could have been derived from the Japanese character for eight, which consists of two oblique vertical strokes, somewhat like this: /\. I can imagine that hachi no ji refers to this pattern, because the vertical circles described by the jo follow the path of the two strokes in the character. However, this seems less fitting and less apropriate as a name than a reference to the western 8.

I am completely aware that there are more important things in life than this, but I am just curious. Does anyone know whether the name hachi no ji is derived from the Japanese character eight or the western figure 8?
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Old 08-02-2005, 09:39 AM   #2
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,224
Re: Hachi no ji jo suburi

When I read your description and then look at the kanji, if most certainly looks like the answer to your curious question is right there.
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Old 08-02-2005, 07:57 PM   #3
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 106
Re: Hachi no ji jo suburi

Maybe it is the secret bee swarm defence.
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Old 08-02-2005, 08:19 PM   #4
Michael Varin
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 567
Re: Hachi no ji jo suburi


The name 'katate hachi no ji gaeshi' comes from the movement's similarity to the kanji. Most people assume it has to do with an 8 turned on its side, but that is incorrect. Making fancy circles with the jo should not be the emphasis. The kanji is showing the lines of the two strikes that are delivered to the head and/or hands of an opponent.

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Old 08-04-2005, 06:59 AM   #5
Ilja Leonard Pfeijffer
Dojo: Shi Zen Ryu
Location: Leiden
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 11
Re: Hachi no ji jo suburi

Thanks very much indeed for the very illumating answers.
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Old 01-18-2016, 11:48 AM   #6
Dojo: Aiklikai of Philadelphia
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 89
Re: Hachi no ji jo suburi

Shihan's HenrySmith, Nizam Taleb and Paul Manogue taught me but for some reason reading Shihan Saito still reminds me about katate hachi no ji gaeshi and the five movements from hasso gaeshi...
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Old 01-22-2016, 10:01 PM   #7
Dojo: Kitsap Aikido, Poulsbo, WA
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 11
Re: Hachi no ji jo suburi

I'm curious, since the five Hasso (八相 - "八-appearance") Gaeshi movements immediately follow Katate Hachi-no-ji (八の字 - "八's shape") Gaeshi, did Saito-sensei name it this just to avoid confusion with the Hasso movements? Is there a linguistic reason that keeps hachi-no-ji and hasso from being used interchangeably? Finally, could he have intended a double entendre when naming the movement? (Would such a thing even fit his personality?)
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