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Old 04-28-2001, 07:59 PM   #1
flamekiller
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What is the difference in Aikido styles?

What is the difference in the different Aikido styles. I am currently a Yoshinkan student, but once was an Aikikai student. I have been told that there are yet even more styles. Can anyone explain the differences. Not so much the origins, but how they differ in teaching, technique, usefullness etc. I have heard Yoshinkan called "Hard Aikido". What is the meaning of this? Thank You.

Last edited by flamekiller : 04-28-2001 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 04-28-2001, 11:19 PM   #2
lt-rentaroo
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Hello,

I'm not going to go into details about the differences between the different styles of Aikido. You will find though, that what I believe to be the main difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai is in the hanmi stances. Yoshinkan is considered to be a "hard style" because Gozo Shioda was a student of Morihei Ueshiba in the pre-WW II days of Aikido, when the training was considered by some to be more "intense" or rough. After WW II, Aikido seems to have changed slightly, focusing more on circular movements (Yoshinkan techniques are generally more linear in nature).

Usefulness depends entirely upon the student. If you train well and learn how to apply the techniques in an effective and efficient manner, then you will have useful Aikido. If you just hang around the dojo and don't commit yourself to the art and training, your aikido will be useless. It really is that simple.

Differences in teaching are really dependent upon the instructor. Some may emphasize one aspect of Aikido more than others, such as the use of atemi.

I'm not sure how many different styles of Aikido exist today. There are several styles out there such as Aikikai, Yoshinkan, Tomiki, Ki Society, Iwama, and others. There is information on Aikiweb about the different styles, but I'm not sure exactly where. Your best bet would be to browse through this site and see what you can find.

I hope that I've helped some, have a good day!

LOUIS A. SHARPE, JR.
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Old 04-29-2001, 12:05 AM   #3
lt-rentaroo
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Hello,

Me again, I found a site that may help answer some of your questions.

http://www.ki-aikido.com/astyles.htm

I hope that helps, have a good day!




LOUIS A. SHARPE, JR.
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Old 04-29-2001, 11:10 AM   #4
Greg Jennings
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Just my 2 cents

Just to add to what Louis has already said, I think that the individual teacher has far more to do with their students' aikido than the style or organization that they belong to.

The important in my mind is to find a situation that you can hang with for the long haul. No one is going to find their aikido in a couple of years.

Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 07-21-2004, 10:24 AM   #5
Devin McDowell
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Yoseikan is between hard and soft, encorporating the circular movements of aikido, as well as karate, judo, and some others.
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Old 07-21-2004, 11:36 AM   #6
Ron Tisdale
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

I wouldn't call aikikai a style, it is an umbrella organization with many shihan teaching their own personal take on aikido (that's not meant to be negative at all).

I wouldn't necessarily call yoshinkan hard...more like precise. The biggest common factor amoung yoshinkan dojo would probably be the kihon dosa or basic movements, and the resulting attention to a specific way of moving. This is a pedigogical method as much as anything else. I'd recommend getting out to a few seminars put on by other organizations, see what they do, adapt and adopt what is usefull, keep your eyes open, and train hard in your chosen style/dojo.

Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 07-21-2004, 02:32 PM   #7
Steven
 
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Quote:
Jason Kent wrote:
What is the difference in the different Aikido styles. I am currently a Yoshinkan student, but once was an Aikikai student. I have been told that there are yet even more styles. Can anyone explain the differences. Not so much the origins, but how they differ in teaching, technique, usefullness etc. I have heard Yoshinkan called "Hard Aikido". What is the meaning of this? Thank You.

These are all excellent questions for Shewman Sensei. Have you tried asking him?
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Old 07-25-2004, 08:56 PM   #8
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

In my opinion the difference between the various aikido styles is the way each student, who becomes a teacher or teaches in any capacity, interprets what is taught to them in conjunction with their understanding of what life is and should be. There are a lot of variations, none of which is necessarily wrong, just different.

Lyle Laizure
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Deru kugi wa uta reru
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Old 07-28-2004, 07:26 PM   #9
Darren_Friend
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Quote:
Jason Kent wrote:
What is the difference in the different Aikido styles. I am currently a Yoshinkan student, but once was an Aikikai student. I have been told that there are yet even more styles. Can anyone explain the differences. Not so much the origins, but how they differ in teaching, technique, usefullness etc. I have heard Yoshinkan called "Hard Aikido". What is the meaning of this? Thank You.
I can only speak on Yoshinkan aikido.

Yoshinkan's main difference is that it has developed a kata style to teaching aikido. Each technique is broken down and analyzed, basic angles, shapes developed. This is kata training and is refeered to as kihon dosa (basic movements) and kihon waza (basic techniques). Students practice these basics and finally can apply them smoothly and strongly as a real waza. The advantage is that students learn basics, develop their power and can better channel energy into uke. However in the beginning it looks a little stiff and non flowing.

Yoshinkan has a reputation as a hard style, but that really depends on the individual teacher. I have seen hard and soft Yoshinkan as well as hard and soft aikikai. There is no doubt though, that Yoshinkan founder, Shioda Gozo, was a real hard guy.
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Old 03-11-2007, 09:07 AM   #10
KamiKaze_Evolution
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Inoue Kyoichi Kancho's performance seens like quite relax while peoples consider that Yoshinkan is hard Aikido, Yoshinkan is actually can being gentleness like other Aikido. BTW, Joe Thambu Sensei says that Yoshinkan Aikido is a method of selfp-improvement not an Aikido style. Yoshinkan isn't hard Aikido, my personal opinion is Yoshinkan can be both soft and hard. Soft Aikido, only Ki Society i think.

KamiKaze
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:37 AM   #11
Amir Krause
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Perhaps the floolwing discussion in E-bodo would be of help:
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17385

And, I am sure a search in this forum would bring you quite a few additional threads on this topic.

Amir
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Old 03-12-2007, 01:04 PM   #12
odudog
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

There are a lot of differences in the styles. Some are very sutile while others are drastic. The best way to learn is to watch a class or video enough times to be able to pick up some of the hints. Yoshinkan has slightly stiff/different kamae and pecular way of doing ukemi as an example. Iwama bows in a certain ritual order and seems to kiai on everything. These two examples are just something that I have tended to notice and not a tale tell signs but they will point you in a certain direction. I once read an interview from a very old Sensei that in the old days you could tell from whom someone studied under by the way that he/she moved, manners, or applied techniques. He said that it is harder to figure this out now a days but it is still possible.
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Old 04-18-2007, 09:17 PM   #13
Nikopol
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

I had hoped there would be more on this thread. I have been training in Yoshinkan at the Hombu Dojo in Tokyo, but want to begin training in Aikikai, while continuing in Yoshinkan. I myself have confidence that I can switch between the two styles. However some teachers have suggested I must choose between the two.

I would like to hear from anyone who is practicing or has practiced in both styles.
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Old 04-18-2007, 11:37 PM   #14
xuzen
 
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Quote:
Vincent Nikopol wrote: View Post
I had hoped there would be more on this thread. I have been training in Yoshinkan at the Hombu Dojo in Tokyo, but want to begin training in Aikikai, while continuing in Yoshinkan. I myself have confidence that I can switch between the two styles. However some teachers have suggested I must choose between the two.

I would like to hear from anyone who is practicing or has practiced in both styles.
I have tried both school,,, what exactly would you like to know?

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:41 AM   #15
Armin Quast
 
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Unhappy Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Hi!
I wanted to tell you that ki-aikido has moved to

http://www.shugenkai.com/

That also means that the link above doesn't work anymore. - I' ve found that out a minute ago.
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Old 04-19-2007, 07:41 AM   #16
Ron Tisdale
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Quote:
Vincent Nikopol wrote: View Post
I had hoped there would be more on this thread. I have been training in Yoshinkan at the Hombu Dojo in Tokyo, but want to begin training in Aikikai, while continuing in Yoshinkan. I myself have confidence that I can switch between the two styles. However some teachers have suggested I must choose between the two.

I would like to hear from anyone who is practicing or has practiced in both styles.
Hi Vincent,

I train under Yukio Utada Sensei (7th dan from Gozo Shioda) in Philadelphia, Pa. I also get out and about quite a bit in Aikikai dojo both in this area, around the US, and occationally in other countries. If you look at my Aiki Blog you'll find some reviews of my training in different Aikikai dojo, and some of my Yoshinkan training as well.

I think those writings will give you more of an idea about some of the differences. I also think that going back and forth between the two depends very much on the individual. I do know that many Yoshinkan instructors tend to lean toward 'staying in the fold'...and they do have their own (often quite good) reasons for that. If you branch out too early, it can be quite confusing going between the two. There are also sometimes valid safety concerns. I have found certain Aikikai waza and ukemi (esp. shihonage done as a high fall with the arm bent behind the shoulder) challenging to adapt to. And I have also noticed that some of my Aikikai partners aren't happy with the nature of some of the Yoshinkan locks (again, shiho comes to mind) throws and strikes (not to mention the rather serious attitude )..

Personally, I strive to learn and grow from the differences, to understand the reasons for the differences (in both technique and ettiquite), and to do as they do in what ever dojo I train. Even if I might personally disagree with the reasons. For that moment, in that place, fitting in is more important to me than being right.

I think if you have a solid base in your preferred style (1st kyu, 1st dan?), and if you maintain the attitude I described, you will have little trouble fitting in to both places. Howvever, I must note that my own teacher has been very understanding and accomodating of my maverick ways and I'm not sure I could have done these types of 'outings' without that support.

As you are training in Japan under Japanese instructors, I think you must also consider the "traditional" viewpoint of one Sensei / one instructor. Some people will actually lock you out from certain instruction if they do not consider you loyal by those standards.

Best,
Ron (osu!)

Ron Tisdale
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St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:16 AM   #17
Erick Mead
 
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Quote:
Jason Kent wrote: View Post
What is the difference in the different Aikido styles.
By my calculation, the difference is approximately 17.

Approximately.


Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 04-19-2007, 02:19 PM   #18
kironin
 
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Quote:
Louis A. Sharpe, Jr. wrote: View Post
After WW II, Aikido seems to have changed slightly, focusing more on circular movements (Yoshinkan techniques are generally more linear in nature).
Actually, that would characterize Ki Society aikido also in many ways.

and at higher levels they all are pretty soft if choose to especially in free flow sessions.

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Old 04-19-2007, 04:16 PM   #19
Steven
 
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Quote:
Vincent Nikopol wrote: View Post
I would like to hear from anyone who is practicing or has practiced in both styles.
Vincent,

Two excellent resources from within the Yoshinkan you might consider speaking with are Terada Sensei and/or Ando Sensei. Terada Sensei was training in aikido before the formation of the Yoshinkan and Ando Sensei is an Aikikai Sandan.

Good luck
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Old 04-19-2007, 08:39 PM   #20
Nikopol
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Boon, I would like to know how far you were able to test in each of the two schools, and how you percieved the process of keeping them seperate during testing, and how you percieved one benefited the other in testing/jiyuu waza. ?

Steve, I assume you are referring to Kiyoyuki Terada? I am presently practicing at the Tenshinkan Dojo in Zushi where our Kancho Sensei was a student of Terata Sensei, and Terata Sensei came to our last testing. Perhaps next time there is a testing I might have a chance to ask something, but I wouldn't know if or how to approach it. Could you tell me more about Ando Sensei?

Ron, its good to know someone else is on the same path. I am attracted to Aikikai because of the fluidity and adaptability of its movements. It seems Yoshinkans atemi are good for training (especially for the uke) but not legally or I suppose compassionately applicable. There seems to be an opportunity to practice fluid AIkido with minimal atemi in Aikikai.

I also notice that I have never heard Ki mentioned in the Yoshinkan dojo. I think it is approaching from the opposite direction. We do certain moves with emphasis on foot position, body position, but lately I have begun to feel the center, and that Aikido's power comes from Ten and Chi.... not sure how to explain it. It seems that I want to come at this from both ends and meet up in the center.
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:37 PM   #21
xuzen
 
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Quote:
Vincent Nikopol wrote: View Post
Boon, I would like to know how far you were able to test in each of the two schools, and how you percieved the process of keeping them seperate during testing, and how you percieved one benefited the other in testing/jiyuu waza. ?
I reached 4th Kyu in Aikikai style, had to discontinue because I moved.
I had a 3 yrs break before starting Yoshinkan because that was the only aikido school available to me at my new location. It is now 7 yrs now doing the Yoshinkan style.

Vincent, I initially had some difficulty switching from the Hombu (Aikikai) way of doing things. Comparatively, the Hombu style I did was very circular and flowy... and Yoshinkan well... you know their style, no need for me to elaborate.

In my current dojo during jiyu-waza, we do not advocate uke to go don't on its own... I mean, if my technique does not work, don't just fall down. With that regard, if I were to do the flowy and circular stuff on my fellow uke's, I would get clobbered very quickly.

I have to rely on timing, off balancing and the all important atemi. There are just no time time for big circular movement in a multiple uke jiyu-waza. BTW, I find that irimi (entering or proactive) technique works better in than tenkan (circular or reactive) techinque in these highly stress situation.

In a nut shell, I think, my aikikai training would not be applicable to the type of jiyu waza we do now in my Yoshinkan dojo. I hope that answer your question, Vincent.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 04-20-2007, 03:09 AM   #22
Charles Hill
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Hi Vincent,

There is a British guy named Brent who is currently training at both the Yoshinkan Honbu and an Aikikai dojo(not honbu.) I believe he is not a yudansha. You might try seeking him out and asking him.

Charles
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Old 04-23-2007, 03:27 AM   #23
Charles Hill
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Oops, his name is Brett, not Brent.
Charles
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Old 04-23-2007, 05:58 AM   #24
tedehara
 
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Quote:
Louis A. Sharpe, Jr. wrote: View Post
Hello,

Me again, I found a site that may help answer some of your questions.

http://www.ki-aikido.com/astyles.htm

I hope that helps, have a good day!
http://www.shugenkai.com/styles.htm Web page has moved since the original date of posting.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:58 PM   #25
Tijani1150
 
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Re: What is the difference in Aikido styles?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
I wouldn't call aikikai a style, it is an umbrella organization with many shihan teaching their own personal take on aikido

I wouldn't necessarily call yoshinkan hard...more like precise.

Ron
Well said Ron

Yoshinkan is precise and there is ONE way to do the technique (at least in the early stages) which makes it clear for the beginner as apposed to Aikikai where the different ways of doing a technique can be confusing to the learner.

The wonderful thing about Yoshinkan is the Kihon Dosa Kata which reflects on the techniques, if the Kihon Dosa is learnt and applied correctly the techniques will follow in the same way and vice versa,

Another beauty about Yoshinkan in my opinion is that there is a gauge you can use to check wether a technique is being executed correctly or not for example one's Kamae (stance) is gauged by placing the knee on the floor and seeing wether it is parallel with the heel all in all YOSHINKAN RULES.

Last edited by Tijani1150 : 04-24-2007 at 12:02 AM.
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