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Old 04-13-2004, 10:14 PM   #1
*Aiki*Jimmy_yan
Dojo: Shudokan Australia (Glen Waverley Dojo)
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Freaky! Does believing in yourself work?

Recently, i have started getting worse and worse at aikido... i dont know why... but ever since i skipped 8th kyu, i have started not believing in myself... i dont know why!! can someone help me?

ps. i cant ask my sensei because on thursday, a different sensei is comming to teach us... Sensei Joe Thambu!!!

OSU!!
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:15 PM   #2
*Aiki*Jimmy_yan
Dojo: Shudokan Australia (Glen Waverley Dojo)
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im getting really really worried

OSU!!
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:28 PM   #3
Joezer M.
 
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One of my sempais told me that a lot of aikidokas (at least at the dojos where we train) go through a cycle of:

1) feeling that you know absolutely nothing

2) beginning to get confident about his/her techniques

3) beginning to loose confidence and feeling that none of your techniques work

4) go to 1

Could be your just going through a stage... DOn't know for sure tho...

Joezer
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:31 PM   #4
aikiSteve
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk
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Bah! Some days are easy, some days (like today) are painful. Just keep training.

Go swing your bokken 500 times. Meditation in motion makes everything better.

Steve
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:31 PM   #5
*Aiki*Jimmy_yan
Dojo: Shudokan Australia (Glen Waverley Dojo)
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Quote:
Joezer Mandagi (Joezer M.) wrote:
One of my sempais told me that a lot of aikidokas (at least at the dojos where we train) go through a cycle of:

1) feeling that you know absolutely nothing

2) beginning to get confident about his/her techniques

3) beginning to loose confidence and feeling that none of your techniques work

4) go to 1

Could be your just going through a stage... DOn't know for sure tho...

Joezer
um... step one doesnt apply to me... ive never felt like i know nothing.. i just felt like im getting worse and worse.. i used to be VERY confident.

OSU!!
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:33 PM   #6
*Aiki*Jimmy_yan
Dojo: Shudokan Australia (Glen Waverley Dojo)
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Quote:
Steve Nelson (aikiSteve) wrote:
Bah! Some days are easy, some days (like today) are painful. Just keep training.

Go swing your bokken 500 times. Meditation in motion makes everything better.

Steve
hehe i havnt started using the bokken yet. um... what does meditation in motion mean?

OSU!!
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Old 04-14-2004, 01:15 AM   #7
Bronson
 
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Re: Does believing in yourself work?

Quote:
Jimmy Yan (*Aiki*Jimmy_yan) wrote:
i cant ask my sensei because on thursday, a different sensei is comming to teach us...
You can still ask him. These are things that most everybody goes through. He may be able to help guide you through it as he has probably dealt with it many times himself.

Failing that I'd pick up a copy of "Mastery" by George Leonard. You can get it here.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 04-14-2004, 06:55 AM   #8
Ghost Fox
Dojo: Jikishinkan Dojo
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I'm a recent Shodan, and I still go through phases like this. Especially when I train at another dojo and/or organization where they do everything a little bit different. Just something you have to plod through I suppose. Sometime I wonder how much of the proper generation of 'Ki' depends on ones self confidence, and is 'proper' Aikido possible without that confidence.

Keep practicing.
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Old 04-14-2004, 08:04 AM   #9
Taliesin
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For myself my 'development' seems to follow this pattern.

1. Don't feel like I know anything. Have no

confidence.

2. Start getting the hang of techniques,

start feeling confident.

3. Grading

4. Go back to 1.

Seriously though I would say two things. Firstly that confidence in your technique is part of your technique (and a crucial one at that). Secondly to rebuild your confidence focus on what you CAN do and build on developing that.

I am sure that you and I are not the only people to have lost or misplaced our confidence after being brought down to earth with the realisation that we don't know as much as we think we do.

Still it does mean theres always more to learn.
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Old 04-14-2004, 09:06 AM   #10
Greg Jennings
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I read somewhere that anyone attempting to master anything goes through 4 phases:

1. Unconscious incompetence.

2. Conscious incompetence.

3. Unconscious competence.

4. Conscious competence.

FWIW,

Greg Jennings
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Old 04-14-2004, 09:10 AM   #11
SeiserL
 
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IMHO, whatever you believe you will manifest in your life. So yes, believing in yourself works. Believe that you will get better, just not today.

Each time we move forward we learn new things. You can tell they are new things because they make us feel like beginners again. I like it when I don't get it because it means I am learning something new. If I already get it and can do it, than I already know it.

Perhaps you are just looking at the short term class instead of your long term goal. Eventually you will get it if you keep training.

One of the things that distracts most from training and getting it is too much internal judgment and criticism about not getting it. Get out of the internal dialogs and into your training and you will have better progress because you are not fighting yourself.

Most importantly, just relax, breathe, and enjoy yourself.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 04-14-2004, 09:17 AM   #12
aikiSteve
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk
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Quote:
Jimmy Yan (*Aiki*Jimmy_yan) wrote:
what does meditation in motion mean?
I find that after about 45 minutes of doing aikido suddenly all my worries from that day/week disappear. I often come into a class with a million things on my mind and leave without a care in the world.

Steve Nelson
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Old 04-14-2004, 10:06 AM   #13
aikidocapecod
Dojo: Shobu Aikido Cape Cod
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Question.....when you say you are starting not to believe in yourself.....are you speaking strictly with your Aikido?

If the answer is yes....do not feel alone. We all have felt at times that we are not "getting" it. Or we feel like we have not progressed. But...we do keep going. If we step through the doors of our dojo, and to use a term from the "We Are the World" video, check our ego at the door.....we enter the dojo with Shoshin...beginner's mind. When one practices with shoshin, each moment on the mat is a learning experience. Each technique Sensei demonstrates is seen as if for the first time.

If the technique is one you feel some comfort with, watch only how Sensei moves her/his feet, or her/his center. Or, watch only how Uke takes ukemi. Learn each minute you are on the mat.

The point I am trying to make is...if you feel unsure of your Aikido...that is a wonderful thing. It means you know you have a lot to learn. Take that as an indication that you know you have to learn..and that you want to learn.
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Old 04-14-2004, 02:01 PM   #14
mantis
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Re: Does believing in yourself work?

Quote:
Jimmy Yan (*Aiki*Jimmy_yan) wrote:
Does believing in yourself work?
I'm pretty sure NOT believing in yourself doesn't make it any better either.

what is your rank? 7th kyu?

At that level, you probably don't fully understand what you are doing anyway. It will take many more hours before you hit the next plateau of understanding and confidence, so don't worry to much about it. Just go to class and it will come to you eventually.
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Old 04-14-2004, 02:57 PM   #15
Kensai
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I also get the very same feeling so you're not alone.

What I've found is, take shiho nage for example.... You start training in this throw and you see it for the first time and you try to recreate that throw. You dont, but you get the beginnings of it. As time passes you look at the throw deeper and begin to begin again... by looking at it on a new level you change your attitude to it and hence the THROW changes YOU.

Its like removing a layer of an onion, you dont know there is a layer beneth until you have removed the one above.

Just keep training and sticking at it, remember O Sensei took 20 years to perfect kokyunage, you have alot of time on your hands.

"Minimum Effort, Maximum Effciency."
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Old 04-14-2004, 06:13 PM   #16
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
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The more you train the more you realise how little you know, in my opinion.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 04-14-2004, 07:13 PM   #17
Jeanne Shepard
 
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Things take time...

Jeanne
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Old 04-14-2004, 08:40 PM   #18
Mary Eastland
 
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Senseis are just people who have been training longer than you.

Aikido is supposed to be fun...relax and enjoy.

Mir
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Old 04-15-2004, 12:36 AM   #19
*Aiki*Jimmy_yan
Dojo: Shudokan Australia (Glen Waverley Dojo)
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Quote:
Chris Gee (Kensai) wrote:
Just keep training and sticking at it, remember O Sensei took 20 years to perfect kokyunage, you have alot of time on your hands.
OH MY GOSH! well, since you put it that way.. it seems better.. by the way.. whats kokyunage?

OSU!!
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Old 04-15-2004, 01:02 AM   #20
Benjie Lu
Dojo: Don Galo, Parañaque
Location: Manila, Philippines
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Quote:
Jimmy Yan (*Aiki*Jimmy_yan) wrote:
OH MY GOSH! well, since you put it that way.. it seems better.. by the way.. whats kokyunage?
Yup, happens to me all the time, just when you think that your aikido is getting better, there's nothing quite like training with skilled people from other dojos to bring you back to earth. But then again, that's why we practice, right?

Kokyunage, literally means breath throw. It's applied to a series of throws that have no formal names, hehe... I still have to know of a throw where you don't breathe out while throwing, hehe

Benjie Lu
Manila, Philippines
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:16 AM   #21
Ghost Fox
Dojo: Jikishinkan Dojo
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Quote:
Greg Jennings wrote:
I read somewhere that anyone attempting to master anything goes through 4 phases:

1. Unconscious incompetence.

2. Conscious incompetence.

3. Unconscious competence.

4. Conscious competence.

FWIW,
Hey Greg,

I believe this is from Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) by Bandler and

Grinder. Although your have 3 and 4 switched. Its:

1. Unconscious incompetence

2. Conscious incompetence

3. Conscious competence

4. Unconscious competence

Good model of learning.
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Old 04-15-2004, 10:18 AM   #22
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
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When I was trying to become a chess master (got to one rank below it eventually) I found that the learning curve went like this:

(1) Decide that some aspect of my game needed improvement; start working hard on it (books, tutoring, analyzing games, etc).

(2) Play really badly for the next 6 months.

(3) Eventually improve and end up playing a bit better than when I started.

Step #2 caused a lot of consternation the first couple of times, but I eventually decided it was part of the process and couldn't be avoided. Maybe that's where you're at now.

I think that if you don't have moments of discouragement and disillusion it probably means you're stuck and won't improve, because part of improvement is seeing your own weakenesses, and another part is starting to do things differently--which almost never works the first time you try it.

Mary Kaye
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Old 04-15-2004, 12:08 PM   #23
aikiSteve
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Quote:
Damion Lost (Ghost Fox) wrote:
I believe this is from Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) by Bandler and Grinder
I'm not sure about Neuro-Linguistic Programming, but those 4 stages of learning tie directly to the budo concept Shu Ha Ri. The general idea is to first follow the rules as best you can (Shu). Then to try and break the rules or find exceptions to the rules (Ha). Finally it is realized that the general rules and the exceptions are all the same, ultimately the rules are unnecessary (Ri).

Steve Nelson
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:39 PM   #24
mj
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Quote:
Damion Lost (Ghost Fox) wrote:
Hey Greg,

I believe this is from Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) by Bandler and

Grinder. Although your have 3 and 4 switched. Its:

1. Unconscious incompetence

2. Conscious incompetence

3. Conscious competence

4. Unconscious competence

Good model of learning.
Greg's sounded more correct.

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Old 04-15-2004, 03:36 PM   #25
Qatana
 
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No, if you have to think about it, thats concious. Unconcious competence means Not having to think about it, its just *there*.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

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