hit on the butt

~~I've seen kote geishi exicuted at different times by different people where they tenkan way behind uke and hit them on the butt before going on with technique. Why do they do that? Just wondering...

which foot do they use to kick? it's got to be the back foot, something like a round-house kick? Could be an infuence from hapkido.

Traditional aikijitsu style is to use the elbow of the spare arm to strike the kidneys before applying kote-gaeshi. Incidently kote-gaeshi can also utilise a pressure point in the hand.

Ian

They might use that to break the uke's posture so they could execute the kote geishi more effectively. It's more practical...

I'm one of those "butt slappers"; wish I could explain it (can show it, not explain it), but it really does work in taking balance even further and creating a good amount of distance between partners (stretching uke out as it were).

Whenever I do it, it's because uke has a cute butt.

It's done to make sure that you 'really' tenkan. If you can hit them on the butt then you did a fairly deep turn. It also helps posture because it's hard to do when leaning forward.

In other words, it's a learning tool. Some people probably did it so much that it became habit.

thanks Erik, there's a good explanation...

Opher Donchin (opherdonchin) wrote: Whenever I do it, it's because uke has a cute butt.

I was thinking that, but I wasn't going to say it.

Regards,

-Drew

IMHO, a quick hip/butt check can move their center and begin to take their balance. It can also be like an atemi that changes their mental focus from their hand to their butt making less resistance to the kote-gaeshi.

Hi Lynn,

...and begin to take their balance...

But shouldn't their balance be broken at first contact?

Ron (just currious)

Some people may be too stubborn

Like in a real life situation. They are very agressive and harder to take down with a kote geishi unlike in the dojo where you train with your friends. So the but slap can guide as an atemi like Lynn said.

Generally, the technique done properly works with or without friends, at least in my experience. When I've had problems with kotegaeshi (and I've had many, some in public), slapping them in the butt didn't help. And if I want to take someone's balance with atemi, I can think of better places to slap them (other than the butt). But none of that really helps my **kotegaeshi**. It might make me a better slapper though...

RT

PS this is not a rant against atemi...I'm just trying to focus on the technique for a moment...

Lynn Seiser (SeiserL) wrote: IMHO, a quick hip/butt check can move their center and begin to take their balance. It can also be like an atemi that changes their mental focus from their hand to their butt making less resistance to the kote-gaeshi.

I don't think this is what she's seeing but I understand your point. It's also useful in situations where you need to get uke to arch their back.

I always see minegeshi sensei do it. she's one of those old sprightly lady sensei's from osensei's time that smile the brightest when they throw sturdy young men on their butts.

i always thought she gets her kicks from spanking those butts.

"But shouldn't their balance be broken at first contact?"

In a perfect world, but sometimes you need backup plans.

I visited the Dojo of a Himeji based Shihan last month and we did the butt slapping in kotegaishi. Of course I did everything they did in absolute seriousness but frankly speaking I left that particualr variation in their dojo.

I had never seen or done that before however it seemed to me it was not so much balance taking but ensuring the tenkan was far enough that balance was taken. More for nage's reference than any great effect on uke.

I think it depends on how small your tenkan is. My sensei, who pulls the arm round in a tight turn, uses the butt slap to get uke moving forward first. I don't use it, but then I give uke a little forward movement from the wrist hold first, so they're moving anyway.

So whether its constructive or not depends on the way you're doing the tenkan. A lot of people do it because their sensei does it (which is the way it should be) whether they need it or not).

For what its worth, I never liked the elbow to the kidneys/uke's elbow - it seemed to break up the flow of the movement too much for my taste.

Tim

they do it because it's a different technique- the sukebe-nage. Ask your teacher about it

Paul Mihalik (Largo) wrote: they do it because it's a different technique- the sukebe-nage. Ask your teacher about it

I'd have classified it as a form of sawari waza myself...

-- Jun

I am glad we are all "shiri-ai!"

it seems like there are a lot of "mono-shiri" in here today...