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Old 09-26-2002, 11:08 PM   #1
Paula Lydon
Dojo: Aikido Shugenkai
Location: Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 427
Confused kokyu nage

~~ Okay, so there are roughly three billion techniques that seem to fall under the heading of 'kokyu nage'. Kokyu, I've been told, represents breath and the movement of ki. So, then, isn't every technique...kokyu? Does Aikido have techniques without breath and ki movement?
So what's the final definition? How can I differentiate between hiji nage and the ubiquitous kokyu nage? It's like, even a tenkan begins as an irimi motion..(?) Is this in that 'don't try to understand it just train' catagory I keep bumping up against?
All input welcome

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Old 09-27-2002, 12:01 AM   #2
MikeE's Avatar
Dojo: Midwest Center For Movement & Aikido Bukou Dojos
Location: Hudson, WI
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 407
Think less, train more.

You'll figure it out for yourself.

Mike Ellefson
Midwest Center
For Movement &
Aikido Bukou
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Old 09-27-2002, 01:40 AM   #3
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 498
I'll give this one a shot...

Kokyu, as you have pointed, is inherint in every aikido technique. What then is kokyu nage, and how does it differ than other techniques? Good Question!


The answer is more obvious then you would think. Kokyu nage techniques are just that, techniques that are based upon "Kokyu" only - rather than Kansetsu (joint locking) waza, Osei waza, Kaeshi (reversal) waza, ...etc. In simpler terms, you would execute the technique using only Kokyu (with irimi, tenkan, irimi-tenkan, or tenkan irimi...).

I hope this clears it up (a bit).

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
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Old 09-27-2002, 04:33 AM   #4
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
New Zealand
Most Aikido techniques consist of distinct phases. Zanshin, Ma'ai, getting off the line, taking the balance and then the actual "technique".

Many kokyu techniques I've found are kihon (basic) techniques, but where the timing and blending are emphasised to the point where the balance taking phase becomes the technique in and of itself - i.e. it projects uke far enough that the following up technique is not required.

Example - irimi nage. We cut uke down and when they recover and rise we blend with that upward motion to complete the throw. However if our intial cutting down of uke is powerful enough that he hits the deck like a sack of spuds and doesn't recover, that's a kokyu.

My 2c

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 09-27-2002, 06:00 AM   #5
JJF's Avatar
Dojo: Vestfyn Aikikai Denmark
Location: Vissenbjerg
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 780
This is a bit wierd, but my sensei once said that kokyu is that feeling of your chest expanding upwards and outwards, so while doing a kokyu-nage you focus on that feeling. This should make you better at using that intent and posture, so it can be added to everything else you do. In af strange way that explanation really helped me at the time

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
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Old 09-27-2002, 09:19 AM   #6
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
I wanted to resist writing this answer, but the pressure is just too much!

Eat more Garlic and Onions before class, then without touching your partner breath on them.

Kokyu nage.

As silly as this sounds, the essence of breath throw is indeed to sweep aside your opponent with the movement of your body and breath, with out manipulation, strikes, or other variations other than the movement of your body overwhelming the energy of the opponent like a wave.
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Old 09-27-2002, 09:59 AM   #7
tedehara's Avatar
Dojo: Evanston Ki-Aikido
Location: Evanston IL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 826
Paula Lydon wrote:
...So, then, isn't every technique...kokyu?...

If a technique is done correctly, it is a kokyu nage. This includes Ikkyo, Nikyo, Sankyo etc.

This is taking a grand view of all things as one. In actuality, "a rose by any other name..."

If people call a technique ikkyo irimi, then they can talk about it. If they call the technique Bob's Twist and Shout, then they can talk about it also.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
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Old 09-29-2002, 10:48 AM   #8
Jermaine Alley
Dojo: Aikido Of Richmond
Location: Richmond, VA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 63
Kokyu Nage


your reply hit it on the head for me...


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