Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Anonymous

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-21-2002, 01:33 PM   #1
"Unregistered"
IP Hash: 2adbc8cb
Anonymous User
Getting High On The Mat!

What are your feelings on smoking marijuana and doing Aikido? At a seminar a student came up to a group of us and asked if anyone wanted to go smoke a joint. One student agreed. They asked the sensei if he wanted to join them and he left with them. They all came back for the next class which the sensei taught.

All thoughts, help and ideas appreciated.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2002, 01:44 PM   #2
"Unregistered"
IP Hash: baab6973
Anonymous User
Irresponsible and dangerous to you and the other students. This is a martial art with a suprisingly high injury rate considerng how gently it is often practised.

Students should get high AFTER class. Senseis should set a better exapmle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2002, 02:26 PM   #3
Katie Jennings
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 14
Offline
Blush! RE: Gettin' High

I think that he certainly shouldnt have taught. Whether he wanted to get high or not is up to him
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2002, 03:12 PM   #4
Lyle Bogin
Dojo: Shin Budo Kai
Location: Manhattan
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 588
United_States
Offline
Being high or drunk on the mat is dangerous and inconsiderate (and very common...I had one instructor who used to walk up to his stoned students and say "practicing sleeping style?").

If you want to train high or drunk, do so on your own time.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2002, 04:04 PM   #5
"Unregistered"
IP Hash: 25b629ca
Anonymous User
Freaky! high on the mat

Hmm. I am maybe biased but I think practicing drunk is worse that practicing stoned - more loss of motor and impulse control, also drunks smell bad. What about people who reek of cigarette smoke on the mat? - or does that go in the same category as BO?

Some people function adequately stoned, some don't function at all. I once watched a dance audition performed by a stoned dancer chick and she did well and got the part.

Teaching either way is not exactly admirable. So? you want me to look up to you as an example? I dont think so!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2002, 04:45 PM   #6
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,719
United_States
Offline
Practicing Aikido in any state of altered consciousness is very dangerous and extremely inconsiderate of those you train with! I would refuse to train with you.

Until again (if you're clean and sober),

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2002, 04:47 PM   #7
"Unregistered"
IP Hash: ccdbc9d0
Anonymous User
What happened during the lesson afterwards? Did you watch the class? Was the lesson degraded, did the teacher lose coherency? Was the rest of the seminar a waste? Were people injured? Did the students ruin the lesson for people who were on the mat? Were people aware of what happened who didn't witness the conversation?

what about going to class sick, or injured? what about angry or emotionally distraught? what about taking cough syrup, or methadone?
what about HIV in the dojo?

What happened concretely?

personally I think it's waste of pot to smoke pot and go train. Focus in practice will anull the high .. you get to a different space; one which anyone who practices regularly reaches without being stoned anyway. Practice without focus and you're wasting your training time.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2002, 05:14 PM   #8
"Unregistered"
IP Hash: 83af7e46
Anonymous User
How about this:

Most folks on the mat are altered in some way or another -- pharmaceutically, "para"-pharmaceutically and otherwise. We aikido folks are all a bit whacky.

I'd say that stuff like the neophyte's fear, the inflated egos of way too many senior students, the parochialism and attendant crappy mental hygeine (not to mention crappy technique) in many dojo all pose similar dangers to those posed by a stoned student or instructor.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2002, 05:25 PM   #9
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,950
Offline
There are people for whom smoking marijuana will make them stoned and they will be impaired and should not do aikido, drive a car, operate machinery, use a saw, etc...
There are people who smoke daily and have smoked daily for decades; they function very well in their careers and personal lives and you don't know it because you can't tell.
I cannot say what category these students and teacher fit into.
I can say that either way they were incredibly indiscreet and set a bad example though.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2002, 05:54 PM   #10
ChristianBoddum
 
ChristianBoddum's Avatar
Dojo: Aarhus AiKiKai
Location: Aarhus,Denmark
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 263
Offline
Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Hi there !
I have to say that i have been a smoker
and embarrassing moments have occured on the mat,I very much appreciate my fellow trainee's
and senseis for putting up with me and now
I realise how lucky I am.
As earlier mentioned strange but nice people
are in the aikido community ,and patience is a virtue that in my case has made me even more
caring because of the lack of judgement I've met.
Yours - Chr.B.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2002, 06:34 PM   #11
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
Offline
There is a name for anyone who walks on the mat high - Arse hole!!!!!

Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2002, 06:47 PM   #12
"Unregistered"
IP Hash: 5a6a48b3
Anonymous User
Re: Re: Getting High On The Mat!

In the part of the aikido world I come from pot-smoking is pretty common by both instructors and students. I was part of this number for a while, but have come to eschew drugs. I agree with Janet in that much of the time you can't tell if someone is loaded or not, especially if they are habitues. While lots of folks (NORML and so forth) would like the world to think that pot-smoking is a lifestyle choice, I tend to think that it is really an addiction or dependency...or develops that way. There is a certain autism or self-centeredness to being a pothead. There is already enough navel-gazing in aikido (I know, people just want to visualize their tandens more readily). For me it all proved to be insidously deceptive. Really, I'd rather smoke a bowl and watch Ren and Stimpy than smoke a bowl and practice.

Drinking is pretty common, too. I've been around -- as, no doubt a lot of other people senior instructors who've just reeked. I'd probably win the award for the most hungover on Saturday mornings award at a place where I used to practice. But then I don't practice there anymore and am no longer hungover on Saturday mornings. Connection? Hmmmm....

Let's start a new topic about the use of Red Bull and how it affects breakfalls.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2002, 08:33 AM   #13
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 915
Offline
This is how I would rate all that everyone has been mentioning, and my rationale: worst offense to least

intoxication of any form (drugs legal and not, etoh)--no matter how good you are and used to the effects, you ARE NOT. period. studies have been done of reaction times. you endanger yourself and others. irresponsible beyond belief.

HIV, Hep C---ONLY a problem if you get blood on someone. and if you do, you owe them a warning. otherwise not a factor. irresponsible only if you indisciminately bleed on others and don't warn them.

Tobacco smoke/perfume--these can trigger asthma attacks in some people...wash off the odor before you walk on the mat.

Other communicable diseases (cold, flu, etc)--stay off the mat, you'll make others sick---a lot more likely than spreading HIV, just not as deadly, but still not nice.

Long nails (toe or otherwise)---obvious reasons, along with jewelry.

Questionable hygiene--odors can distract others, outright dirt is almost as risky if not more as the known cold... here I'd also put the women who wear makeup that rubs off on my gi...

It is sad that people doing Aikido care so little for other in the dojo that they would put their own selfish pleasure or desires over the health and safety of others.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2002, 11:12 AM   #14
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
Offline
Freaky! once upon a time

When I was a college student, a very long time ago, I dropped some acid with a classmate, and then, I guess, partly out of a sense of dedication and partly out of a sense of adventure, I went to aikido practice. My classmate went elsewhere.

About half way through the practice the drug began to take effect. Although I didn't want anyone to know what was going on, especially my teacher, I found myself becoming extra-ordinarilly careful with my uke. I was a brown belt at the time and among the highest ranking students in the class. I felt such an overwhelming sense of responsibility for the welfare of my partner that I almost became petrified with fear.

Although I learned something spiritually from the experience, I also vowed to never practice aikido in an altered state again, because to do so, I feel, would be very self centered.

If my partner were ever to become injured while I was on drugs or even medication, I think that the level of the sense of guilt would be very high.

I would also find it difficult to respect a teacher that used any kind of drug during class. I think that it would be an expression of self centeredness that indicates that the teacher is not giving the students the attention that they deserve. It demonstrates a lack of a sense of responsibility to him or her self, the students and the art.

There's a time and place for everything. I recommend habitually keeping the aikido dojo a place that remains basically pure.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 12:02 PM   #15
"Unregistered"
IP Hash: 47461b72
Anonymous User
Confused high on the mat - not!

This is for Lynn S, whose post ran immediately after mine. I AM clean and sober! I don't drink, don't smoke, and don't do drugs.

My comments about pot being less obnoxious/dangerous than drinking are not a rationalization for my personal consumption but rather are based on observations of others' behavior. I was trying to make the same point as Janet - certain individuals (who are usually QUITE habituated to daily marijuana use) function pretty well stoned.

Or perhaps you were using the "you" in "I would refuse to train with you" to refer to the stoner described in the first post?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 12:24 PM   #16
"Unregistered"
IP Hash: 2908256f
Anonymous User
Thanks for the replies so far.

This is only my second post. Hope if there was confusion this clears any of it up.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 08:33 PM   #17
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,719
United_States
Offline
Re: high on the mat - not!

Quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered

Or perhaps you were using the "you" in "I would refuse to train with you" to refer to the stoner described in the first post?
Thanks for understanding. It was not a personal attack on "you", but a personal statement about myself. I do not train with people I do not trust. I cannot trust anyone in an altered state of consciousness to train with enough awareness to do it safely. I too live clean and sober.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2002, 03:46 AM   #18
JJF
 
JJF's Avatar
Dojo: Vestfyn Aikikai Denmark
Location: Vissenbjerg
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 780
Denmark
Offline
I know people who have been smoking a lot - also before practicing. I have never actually experience any of them harming anyone while under influence - however it IS illegal and I don't think it's up to each person to decide wether he or she can practice under the influence of drugs. Just don't do it!!! I very much second Colleen's mail.

Of course we all have flaws and strange habits (I myself CRAVE coffee in the morning ) and we should - to a certain extend - be lenient to each other while we are going through our individual development. However deliberately manipulating your senses before practicing seems to me to be too much of a risk taken on behalf of your class-mates.

As every one might have guessed by now I have no personal experience with getting high on any illegal substance. And the only thing that get me high on the mat is when the practice is going really well. Actually I would prefer that 'natural high' over any form of substance-produced high (yes - even over the buzz of a good single-malt whisky )

In my opinion Aikido practice is not 'an experience' but more like time and effort dedicated to progress. Therefore we should walk the path with firm steps and awareness and not try to fly down it while hovering on a cloud - no matter what color it might have.

Rigidly yours

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2002, 08:06 AM   #19
Genex
 
Genex's Avatar
Dojo: Warrington Seishin Kai
Location: Warrington, England
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 155
Offline
i've got to agree only get high AFTER class
before is silly you'll try and concentrate and do stuff which undermines the point of getting high your meant to relax or play games see, not do aikido
besides where the hell do you keep your stash in your gi? ppl been sowing pockets in them or sommat?
pete

like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick. - The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy on the Pan-galactic Gargleblaster!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2002, 10:45 AM   #20
Jim ashby
Dojo: Phoenix Coventry
Location: Coventry, England
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 303
Offline
Just enough

Just being on the mat is enough of a high for me. Our Thursday night class is a privilege, not a right and i smile every time I go on and leave.
Have fun.

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2002, 01:57 PM   #21
jimvance
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 199
Offline
This is a messy topic. Messy for so many reasons, one being that cannabis is illegal in most of the Western world, and admitting to usage effectively convicts you of committing a crime (which in the Western world still carries the stigma of "sin", or a breaking of a divine commandment). I greatly respected Ellis Amdur's autobiographical accounts of training with Terry Dobson, if for nothing else, the naive honesty conveyed within the story. I am also reminded of stories, like in the book "Crooked Cucumber" by David Chadwick, of (limited) drug use within Zen Buddhist circles in the 1960s and 1970s. The people interested in the usage coupled with "a practice" (if it is not just plain habit or addiction) are normally looking for greater spiritual insight, much akin to shamanistic practices. There is a social contract within budo, and to bring an unknown variable into the practice of budo does a dis-service to those you practice with. Whether or not you want to use cannabis or LSD is for you to decide, but if you want to train with someone while you are under its effects is irresponsible. Perhaps just telling them will be enough, perhaps abstaining only before class is not enough (they may refuse to train with you based on the information you give them). My own personal feelings on the matter are that if you want to use any substance, you should do it responsibly. Training in budo is an education (amongst other things) and being intoxicated lessens my capability for proper education. I also don't want to rely on external stimuli to break through internal barriers. These are recreational substances, unnecessary to everyday interaction and survival, and to me, budo is not playtime.

Jim Vance

Last edited by jimvance : 07-04-2002 at 02:02 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2002, 07:13 AM   #22
Genex
 
Genex's Avatar
Dojo: Warrington Seishin Kai
Location: Warrington, England
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 155
Offline
Cool

Actualy very coincidentaly whilst me and a friend were walking to class last night we walked past the Y.M.C.A and all we could smell was weed it was thick in the atmosphere, i swear you could almost see the smoke in the air the bong must have been two story's high because even when we went to the school where we practice we could still smell it thick in the air (school is over 100 yrds away from the Y.M.C.A) unfortunatly when we left it had dissapated, but there ya go
pete

like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick. - The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy on the Pan-galactic Gargleblaster!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2002, 04:58 PM   #23
Leslie Parks
Dojo: Tenshinkan Dojo
Location: Chicago
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 41
Offline
Thumbs up Getting High on the Mat

Do you really want to put your body, no matter how good your ukemi, in someone's hands who has deliberately and knowingly compromised their own consciousness, reaction time and control??
It is challenging enough to maintain awareness and safety on the mat without introducing marijuana, alcohol, or others.

No thank you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2002, 06:24 PM   #24
Pretoriano
 
Pretoriano's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Santa Fe
Location: Aragua Venezuela
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 130
Venezuela
Offline
Talking Pretoriano

Oh men, I just can stop laughing a this funny post, I just want to see somebody entering the dojo to train in altered states, shit, that's what I CALL AN INMEDIATELY KICK ASS OUT of the dojo.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2002, 05:39 PM   #25
JPT
Dojo: trad
Location: UK
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 69
Offline
Quote:
At a seminar a student came up to a group of us and asked if anyone wanted to go smoke a joint. One student agreed. They asked the sensei if he wanted to join them and he left with them. They all came back for the next class which the sensei taught
What if this Sensei purposely went outside with the students, so that he could tell them off in private and not embarrass them infront of the rest of the class ?
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"super" high ranking yudansha? David Racho General 50 07-10-2007 09:26 AM
High kicking DaveS Non-Aikido Martial Traditions 58 03-20-2007 07:29 PM
Taking the high road Casey Martinson General 50 01-23-2005 07:42 PM
Aikido against very high kicking (like in tae kwon do) Jeremy Gelman Techniques 44 10-13-2004 11:39 PM
high repititions in training Bruce Baker Training 5 10-09-2002 01:37 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:18 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate