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Old 05-11-2008, 11:03 PM   #1
tuturuhan
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Why Should I Learn from Her?

Racquet Ball

I've had several women teachers in my life. At 25, I took up Tai Chi Chuan from a woman. Interestingly, though she had learned from a very famous teacher...I later realized that her "soft" was the soft of a man's teaching.

In my linage, we often talk about the "blind Princess Josephine". She moved in circles and performed her technique using "sensitivity and rhythm.

Though, most interestingly for me, was the woman teacher I observed as she played racquet ball every night at Harmon Gym at UC Berkeley. Each night she played against a new challenger. She ate them up. She cleaned their clocks and she did no with little effort.

She stood in the middle of the court and placed the ball such accuracy and precision. With each stroke she would have them running from one end of the court to the other. With each stroke they run, the muscled and they shouted obscentities.

I learned much from that woman.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

Joseph T. Oliva Arriola
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Old 05-12-2008, 07:58 AM   #2
tuturuhan
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

In female martial arts, the concentration is on rhythm, sensitivity, detail, and deception. NOW, CAN MEN and should they learn female martial arts?

A prime example is O'Sensei. Look at him at 45. His body was incredible muscular. But, by the time he was in his 60's he had become "soft", and had developed his inner technique. It was not visible to the "eye".

His students couldn't see it because they were stuck in the box of "external physicality". He was most assuredly using "yin" in his practice as an old man.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

Joseph T. Oliva Arriola
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Old 05-12-2008, 08:08 AM   #3
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

Quote:
Joseph Arriola wrote: View Post
In female martial arts, the concentration is on rhythm, sensitivity, detail, and deception. NOW, CAN MEN and should they learn female martial arts?

A prime example is O'Sensei. Look at him at 45. His body was incredible muscular. But, by the time he was in his 60's he had become "soft", and had developed his inner technique. It was not visible to the "eye".

His students couldn't see it because they were stuck in the box of "external physicality". He was most assuredly using "yin" in his practice as an old man.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola
this might be a good cross-over to 'why teach women only classes'. this approach precisesly.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 05-12-2008, 08:42 AM   #4
tuturuhan
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
this might be a good cross-over to 'why teach women only classes'. this approach precisesly.
Miss Jennifer,

So pleased to meet you. I've enjoyed your posts.

Well, did you know physiologically we all started out as female fetus and that males change anatomically only after being flooded with the hormone testosterone.

Also, that when males become teenagers, they then start to be greatly influenced by the hormone adrenelin in their reactions to fight/flight.

Women on the other hand are less affected by the "emotional" consequences of adrenelin. This is why women are so much better at wielding the "hidden knife".

Fortunately, as old males, we men tend to revert. Unfortunately, we tend to lose a bit of our "gusto". As such, we have to make up for it by being smarter, kinder and a bit more humorous.

Since you are in Santa Cruz, I hope to some day meet you. Is it true that Maya Angelou teaches at the University?

Best
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

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Old 05-12-2008, 09:37 AM   #5
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
this might be a good cross-over to 'why teach women only classes'. this approach precisesly.
In my younger years, I followed the way of the tiger. My teacher was nicknamed the "Mauling Bear" and I followed his style. Take the punches to get in and maul your opponent.

Later, I studied Jujitsu. The Ju (soft, pliable, yeilding while filling holes) was a major change for me.

When I returned to fists, sticks and knives, I decided to learn the "little man's" fight. My teacher was 140 pounds but could break his opponent's ribs and forearms with his focussed strikes. His attitude was:

What is the first principle in a streetfight? Do not get hit/cut.
How do you do this? Do not be there.
How do you not be there? Move both feet. (Angling and Zoning).
Being a big guy, this style made me a dragon.

Now I do not have much exlosive muscle. I am learning the female's fight. Little to no strength. Pure sensitivity, elusiveness, decption and accuracy. Destabilize by appearing from nowhere by surprise. Now I am learning how to be water.

Jennifer, I have felt you elusiveness- In front of me, then behind and underneath my shoulder. I hope we can train together again as I will be in California.in a couple of weeks and will be there through the summer.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:08 PM   #6
tuturuhan
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

Evolutionary Anthropologists/Biologists

Where are the evolutionary anthropologists/biologists when you need them?

I find it extraordinary that pop/psychology has so fooled the mainstream population. At one time we knew that on average homo sapien women were smaller and less muscular. It was a matter of common sense. Then society told us that because of "equality" women are equal in every way. (Though, in the back of our minds we knew that their was something discordant.)

Nonetheless, ss such, beta males began believing that woman and man are "equal in every way". As such, there societal policy dicated that there were no longer any reasons for women and men to be separated or segregated in any way. (Even though we found that in many instances young girls thrived in "only girl" situations (e.g. the study of math in all girl classes.)

Fortunately, true alpha males have always known which gender is superior in nature. They are quite aware that the female in nature does "most" if not all of the hunting. They know that the female "choses" who she mates with. They know that the position of "apha male" is only predicated by the women of the pack.

The male is groomed by the female for his position and when he fails to uphold his position...the females will "unemotionally" choose a new position holder.

This is why when you expose "women martial artists" to their "dark, deep power"...they tend to be the "deadlier of the sexes".

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

Joseph T. Oliva Arriola
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:22 AM   #7
SeiserL
 
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

Is this one of those either/or scenarios?

IMHO, men and women are different. Yet, we have much to teach and learn from each other.

Everyone has something to teach us, offer us. Some on what to do, some as examples of what not to do. Stay open to the lesson, the gift.

Why? Why not?

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:44 AM   #8
tuturuhan
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
Is this one of those either/or scenarios?

IMHO, men and women are different. Yet, we have much to teach and learn from each other.

Everyone has something to teach us, offer us. Some on what to do, some as examples of what not to do. Stay open to the lesson, the gift.

Why? Why not?
SenseiL,

Agreed.

My point is that in nature there are no emotions. In nature, there is the cycle of life. You are born, you grow and then you die. In the process their is a food cycle. Females in nature tend to be the "hunters". They kill and feed their families without the demonstration of emotion. This is one of the evolutionary/psychological reasons women are more adept with the knife than men are.

Interestingly, we forget that in most species, the female is larger and stronger than the male. In homo sapiens, evolution made women more communicative and ingenius in her quest to feed her family. Instead of using her "fists and swords" she used her ability to guide and direct. Truly, the "hand that rocks the cradle..." is appropiate.

But, yes...I agree fully we learn from everyone.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

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Old 05-14-2008, 01:32 PM   #9
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
Is this one of those either/or scenarios?

IMHO, men and women are different. Yet, we have much to teach and learn from each other.

Everyone has something to teach us, offer us. Some on what to do, some as examples of what not to do. Stay open to the lesson, the gift.

Why? Why not?
I agree in theory. But it does amaze me how quickly a female question about having female-only aikido classes gets dominated by men arguing with eachother.

I have seen this pattern way too much. And you wonder why women want some space of their own... male white noise gets in the way.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:39 PM   #10
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

Female Question? How is a question male/female?

Why is there a limit on who can participate in a public discussion?

What is the difference between an arguement and a discussion?

Why would someone bring it up in an unrelated thread, and not address it in the thread in question?

All interesting questions. You decide. Male or Female?

Best,
Ron

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Old 05-14-2008, 03:39 PM   #11
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Female Question? How is a question male/female?

Why is there a limit on who can participate in a public discussion?

What is the difference between an arguement and a discussion?

Why would someone bring it up in an unrelated thread, and not address it in the thread in question?

All interesting questions. You decide. Male or Female?

Best,

Ron
Yes all good questions. I am not on that thread because when in Seminary, I took a course on sexual violence and violation. Little did I know this course was intended to be "womanspace".

I definitely felt unwelcome and learned to keep my mouth shut. I learned a lot. But I do wonder how much those women could have accomplished had I not been there in the first place.
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:11 PM   #12
tuturuhan
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

Sparta,

Though we are not living in Spartan times...these discussions are nothing new. Chris, thought is IMO correct. Why are all these guys getting riled about female martial arts.

I talk a lot about female martial arts because my linage is renown for the teacher known as the "Blind Princess Josephine".

I don't speak from speculation. I speak from concepts and practices that come from my linage. Interestingly, like O'Sensei many of the "masters" in our linage could still "take out" the youngsters even in their 60's and 70's.

This is quite unusual. In most "hard/external" methods, "you are done by the age of 25. I am certain, that for me as a man of 52, I have gotten better in technique and concept because of the "female" martial arts.

In the beginning" we teach our women students differently than we do our male students. Interestingly, from our videos you can probably tell that we attract many women.

Ron, some time ago you asked "How can I move like you. How can I do what you guys do?" Well, I have been speaking the answer in all my posts. We practice yin/female/internal as we become old men. We use are brains more than we use are muscle. We communicate and "discourse". We fight intellectually, spiritually and need be physically.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

Joseph T. Oliva Arriola
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Old 05-14-2008, 06:43 PM   #13
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

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Joseph Arriola wrote: View Post
Sparta,

Ron, some time ago you asked "How can I move like you. How can I do what you guys do?" Well, I have been speaking the answer in all my posts. We practice yin/female/internal as we become old men. We use are brains more than we use are muscle. We communicate and "discourse". We fight intellectually, spiritually and need be physically.
Hi Joseph, I don't remember asking that, but I do remember appreciating how your student moved. It seemed to me that she is very talented. I got the impression from some of the posts in this thread that you might feel that I was in some way disparaging the ideas in the other thread, or female martial arts, or female martial artists. I'm not. I still remember the first time in a ring a woman kicked my butt! It's still pretty fresh in my mind, even though 20 years or so ago. She had a really sweet round house. I felt it constantly, over and over...

I'm just trying to figure things out, same as always.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 05-14-2008, 06:46 PM   #14
tuturuhan
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Hi Joseph, I don't remember asking that, but I do remember appreciating how your student moved. It seemed to me that she is very talented. I got the impression from some of the posts in this thread that you might feel that I was in some way disparaging the ideas in the other thread, or female martial arts, or female martial artists. I'm not. I still remember the first time in a ring a woman kicked my butt! It's still pretty fresh in my mind, even though 20 years or so ago. She had a really sweet round house. I felt it constantly, over and over...

I'm just trying to figure things out, same as always.

Best,
Ron
Ron,

I appreciate you clearing up the mis-communications. My best to you.

Sincerely
Joe

Joseph T. Oliva Arriola
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Old 05-14-2008, 06:51 PM   #15
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

Quote:
I am not on that thread because when in Seminary, I took a course on sexual violence and violation. Little did I know this course was intended to be "womanspace".
I find that unfortunate, for them and for you. I have seen this from the other side. We had a Black Student Union where I went to school. Some of the participants where offended when some white students tried to participate. While I could understand "wanting a space for yourself", I couldn't justify the way it was expressed, and I thought achieving that space at such a cost was not worth while. Some people who could have contributed a great deal to the efforts underway were lost. Hopefully not forever.

Quote:
I definitely felt unwelcome and learned to keep my mouth shut. I learned a lot. But I do wonder how much those women could have accomplished had I not been there in the first place.
How much more could everyone have learned if they had listened once in while? And maybe accomplished, too.

I appreciate the civil discourse, thank you very much.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 05-14-2008, 07:22 PM   #16
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

in the 1980's women really were working hard to define their new enspscement. Male enflurnce in a class that was cutting edge, could easily spoil the pot of soup.
after all malesvdefined so much of female experience for thousands of years.

It had a different dynamic that race issues and always will. The two are just different animals alltigether.

Anyway, I havenow posted on that thread.
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Old 05-14-2008, 07:25 PM   #17
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

Different animals yes. But the lessons learned can often be related. Good chatting.

Best,
Ron

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Old 05-14-2008, 10:05 PM   #18
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Re: Why Should I Learn from Her?

good chatting with you as well.

Chris
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