Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Hi all,

George Ledyard sensei wrote about Aikido being in danger of losing any connection with what the Founder taught and did himself. I believe this has already happened. In most dojo websites we may find homage to the Founder, his biography and his creation of Aikido (or some may call it a re-invention or watered-down version of Daito-ryu Aikijujitsu) based on his personal philosophy and religious belief. Any good martial artist (not necessary in skill but in conviction) will know the differentiation of one martial art from another lays at core of the philosophy of its founder or initiator. In aikido websites, the art is always promoted as a unique martial art -- a martial art of benevolence, the art of peace.

A highly skill martial artist will acknowledge that aikido is a deadly art. A Daito-ryu practitioner will not look at aikido as a watered-down version of his art -- fundamentally, there is little difference between the two. Without the pollution factor, water is water whether in China or in India. What make these arts safe to practice is the art within the art itself -- the art of ukeme. Similarly in karate, while its practitioners train with kime (an explosive attack to the target using appropriate technique and maximum power in the shortest time possible), they are also required to perfect the art of sundome. In a sparring match where a punch or kick has penetrated a defense, what stops an injury by the punch or kick is practice of sundome -- stopping 3 centimeters from the intended target. Karate's sundome is an act of benevolence; similar to ukeme it has to be perfected -- 3 centimeters (circa) and no more.

Equivalent to a highly skilled stunt driver stopping his fast moving vehicle just inches in front of a brick wall, the act of benevolence by a martial artist requires perfection of his techniques. Can a swordsman avoid cutting a person if he cannot control his cuts? Can percussion martial artist avoid hitting vital organs if he cannot even aim his strike and kick?

Perfection of techniques can only be acquired by continuous training and repetition of the same core basic techniques.

What has happen to the connection to Founder? How/when/why did the connection cease? I can only put forth this analogy.

My eleven years old daughter brought home three of her mates to do a class assignment; baking a cake, just a simple butter cake. They are not required to show the cake in class just write a report as to how they did it and how the cake would turn out, comment on its taste and texture, etc. With the help of my wife who assisted with the required ingredients, instructions on kneading of dough, temperature of the oven, etc. the cake turned out pretty well. Not knowing the specifics of the assignment, my wife told the kids that they could decorate the cake with some icing and couple of them gleefully said, "Let's, let's do it!"

Again, my wife showed them how to make the icing and to spread it on the cake with a spreading knife. Then one of them, "Can we put some writing on it" So my wife mixed a coloring to some remaining icing, put the mixture into a icing gun and squeezed on the cake to form the letters of my daughter's name. "Cool" they exclaimed and each of them took turns to put their names using different colored icing on the cake. Next someone said, "I got some jelly beans, let's stick them on the cake". So they covered the cake with decorations until there wasn't any space left on its surface. "This is so cool", said my daughter, "Let's call Hazel, Jacky and Kit and we will do it again tomorrow"

And, so the next morning in the kitchen there were six more mates and three more cakes to be baked and decorated. The girls had a wonderful time in the kitchen and the cakes were taken home to show their parents. As for the assignment…"what assignment?"

At some dojo, the only connection to the Founder is the photograph of him and perhaps a copy of his calligraphy of Ai-Ki-Do written in kanji hanging on the dojo wall.

What has happened to his aikido? Well, you can say it has evolved, enhanced or should I say "decorated". The objective for training has changed -- students want to have a wonderful time; they are not interested in aiki principles. Students are awed by performance of the techniques -- not in the mechanics of the techniques. The teacher-student relationship of the old has become a vendor-buyer relationship and even a performer-audience relationship. There are teachers who have lost focus and strayed from the correct path but then there are others who have diverged from the path intentionally. In either case, they took along with them their ignorant and awe-struck students. Sad thing is that they are still identified with aikido.

Why do some people hate aikido? The answer to this thread is that the seasoned martial artists and intellectuals just could not reconcile the literature they have read on aikido and it's Founder with the teaching or the lack of it in these MMA Clubs.

Some people have pointed out what are lacking in present day aikido compared with the Founder's and that of early generations of deshi. They are asking what has happened to the plain simple cake; a cake so good that you can eat it on its own. I fail to see why certain people are so upset with this observation.

FWIW

David Y

A highly skill martial artist will acknowledge that aikido is a deadly art. A Daito-ryu practitioner will not look at aikido as a watered-down version of his art -- fundamentally, there is little difference between the two.

Dave, I whole heartedly agree. My school teaches both the "do" and "jutsu". We look at it like you can not have one without the other. Very good post!

David Yap wrote: Hi all, What has happened to his aikido? Well, you can say it has evolved, enhanced or should I say "decorated". The objective for training has changed -- students want to have a wonderful time; they are not interested in aiki principles. Students are awed by performance of the techniques -- not in the mechanics of the techniques. The teacher-student relationship of the old has become a vendor-buyer relationship and even a performer-audience relationship. FWIW David Y

Hi Dave,

A well written post. I am very interested in your thoughts.
I was trained as a theologian and the process of (1) finding the historical Jesus and (2) interpreting the meaning of the early church pastors is obviously of great importance to maintaining a consistent orthodox tradition as history moves on, and as Christianity spreads to different cultures. I am also raised in the U.S. and speak from that perspective as others will likely speak from their personal background in responding to this post.

Thesis

As times change, as time speeds up, as cross cultural influences impact a globalized Aikido, a trajectory must occur when reading the words of Founder. The trajectory takes the "intent" of the author and interprets it for a specific generation, culture, etc.

Challenge

How would you create and maintain an Aikido orthodoxy? Should it maintain a direct connection with Asian teaching methods? Asian thought processes? Should Americans (being pragmatists), for instance, find ways to shorten and improve the process to answer the challenge of how so few people have the kind of time to devote to the art like people did 60 years ago? Can Aikido have a family-bonding element that may not have been addressed by Founder?

Your thoughts would be most appreciated.

Good read, and thank you.

Simply put, why did O-Sensei choose to name his art Aikido, and not Aikijutsu or Aikibudo? The answer, I think, is pretty clear.

More importantly, who really cares what others do or do not do?

As long as you think what you are doing is what the founder said to do, then just do it. Others may come around and say "Yes! This is what O-Sensei meant!", great.

If they come around and say "Whoa! That is not Aikido!" that is fine too. It should not change your perception of O-Sensei's teachings. It should stimulate within you some curiosity, which might lead to a change in your perception, but not immediate change.

I have always maintained that if you were a student of O-Sensei the day before he attained his enlightenment, or the first month of his Aikido, or the first 5 years of his Aikido, or the last 2 years of his Aikido, in each of those time-frames you probably would not have been seeing the same thing. Yes, some basic principles likely remained the same, but just look at the pre-war videos and pictures, and compare those to just before his passing. Very, very different, in my eyes.

To minimize the polution over time, only train directly under his students, which raises a host of other issues. I attended a seminar given by Chiba sensei, and a couple of months later, Hagihara sensei. In my limited perception, one spoke to me far more than the other, yet they are both direct students. Go figure.

So, which Aikido are we talking about? I think we are talking about the one that speaks the most to you.

*NOTE* All above references to "you" are not aimed at Mr. Yap. It is the more generic "you."

MMMMMMM jelly beans!!!!!

Scrape the frosting off the cake, save the jelly beans.

David

Oh, get on with your bad 'ole killer self's.

If Mickey Mouse Aikido Clubs do Mouse Aikido, do Secret Squirrel Aikido Clubs do Squirrel Aikido? How about Rocky and Bullwinkle Clubs? Squirrel and Moose Aikido?
I shudder to think what Donald Duck and Goofy Aikido are like...

Cito Maramba wrote: If Mickey Mouse Aikido Clubs do Mouse Aikido, do Secret Squirrel Aikido Clubs do Squirrel Aikido? How about Rocky and Bullwinkle Clubs? Squirrel and Moose Aikido? I shudder to think what Donald Duck and Goofy Aikido are like...

Whatever the style of Aikido whether it is Mickey Mouse, Squirrel, Rocky & Bullwinkle, Donald Duck or goofy it is still basically Aikido. And if you scrape of the frosting (practice) you will find the cake. Save the jelly beans for me.

David

David Skaggs wrote: Whatever the style of Aikido whether it is Mickey Mouse, Squirrel, Rocky & Bullwinkle, Donald Duck or goofy it is still basically Aikido. And if you scrape of the frosting (practice) you will find the cake. Save the jelly beans for me. David

Sometimes the frosting gets scraped away to find that there's no cake underneath. Oh well...

Nick Pittson wrote: Simply put, why did O-Sensei choose to name his art Aikido, and not Aikijutsu or Aikibudo? The answer, I think, is pretty clear.

Just a point of clarification, Osensei didn't name the art "Aikido" he called it a few different things including "Aikibudo".

He accepted the term and ran with it, but didn't actually choose that name.

Christian Moses wrote: Just a point of clarification, Osensei didn't name the art "Aikido" he called it a few different things including "Aikibudo". He accepted the term and ran with it, but didn't actually choose that name.

Thats not how I understand it at all; Aikido was the name he chose for his art...
1. "Ueshiba decided on the name "Aikido" in 1942 (before that he called his martial art "aikibudo" and "aikinomichi")." from http://www.aikidofaq.com/history/index.html

2. pick any from here...http://www.aikiweb.com/general/

Also, running with the cake analogy, some would argue that if the cake was made using 3.5 eggs instead of 4, or worse, tofu instead of eggs, than it is no longer the same cake...or even considered cake at all.

Me? I'll eat whatever tastes tasty. Heated in an oven or not

From this article on AJ:

I believe you played major role in the name-change from aiki budo to aikido when you were a representative of the Kobukan Dojo to the Dai Nihon Butokukai (see side bar).

I was the Director of General Affairs of the Kobukan beginning around 1942 and I helped out Ueshiba Sensei in daily matters. “Aikido,” rather than being a specifically selected name, was the term used to refer to “Butokukai-Ryu” aiki budo within the Dai Nippon Butokukai. The headquarters of the Dai Nippon Butokukai was located in Kyoto and Butokuden centers were set up in all prefectures. Tatsuo Hisatomi from the Kodokan, and Shohei Fujinuma from kendo, were close friends of mine. The Butokukai was an independent, umbrella organization for the martial arts, and it also was in charge of martial arts in the police departments.

It was very difficult to create a new section in the Butokukai at that time. Mr. Hisatomi proposed the establishment of a new section including arts for actual fighting based on jujutsu techniques. The techniques of yawara (an alternate term for jujutsu) are comprehensive and also include the use of the ken and jo. I also made a number of suggestions and Mr. Fujinuma and Mr. Hisatomi understood my ideas. However, had I insisted on these things nothing would have been decided.

There was discussion within the Butokukai about the choice of a name for this new section. It was discussed many times in meetings of the Board of Directors, and particularly in the judo and kendo sections. We had to consider all of the different individual arts encompassed when we tried to come up with an all-inclusive name. It was decided to select an inoffensive name to avoid future friction among the different martial arts.

Mr. Hisatomi argued for his proposal energetically and explained that “aikido” would be a better name than aiki budo for this new section, because it would be better to stress the idea of “michi” or way. He proposed that the name “aikido” be used as term to designate an all-inclusive budo and I agreed with him.

In other words, the term “aikido” was a cover-all term that could include other things as well. Mr. Hisatomi’s idea was to intentionally select a name that would not be opposed by kendo or other martial arts, but rather an inoffensive, comprehensive term to group together all of the yawara schools. In the end, no one opposed this proposal.

Of course, this was certainly a big problem at the time. I can’t say anything more specific about it. Everyone should follow the path they believe in.

Cito Maramba wrote: If Mickey Mouse Aikido Clubs do Mouse Aikido, do Secret Squirrel Aikido Clubs do Squirrel Aikido? How about Rocky and Bullwinkle Clubs? Squirrel and Moose Aikido? I shudder to think what Donald Duck and Goofy Aikido are like...

I don't believe mickey, rocky, bullwinkle, donald duck and goofy have ever study martial arts much less aikido. on the other hand, there were strong evidents that daffy duck has studied various koryu, is an accomplished ki master. daffy has demonstrated kokyu power on a number of occasions along with a version of, possibly Iwama linage, aiki jo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehqaRvlo5pg

daffy also joined a new religion headed by porky pig the monk who has shown to be a hidden master of ki that can stop a direct attack with just a tooth pick.

The essential question remains for me...

What is the core of Aikido that will still be recognizable in another 60 years.

Will your dojo survive a major recession or serious depression?

Will your dojo survive a war that goes beyond terrorism and morphs into a war over things like "usable water"?

If Founder's ideas and practice went through changes before and after WWII, does it even matter that your's might as well?

What will there be that keeps it integrally "Aikido".

@ Mr Moses,

Compelling, but would we not interpret that to mean the choice the Butokukai chose to give it?
"A modern Japanese martial art developed by Morihei UESHIBA incorporating joint-lock and throwing techniques applied in self-defense with the intent of not injuring or causing only minimal damage to the attacker. The techniques of aikido derive mainly from the DAITO-RYU AIKIJUJUTSU of Sokaku TAKEDA. Philosophically, Ueshiba was greatly influenced by the views of Onisaburo DEGUCHI, leader of the OMOTO RELIGION. The art evolved gradually during the late 1920s and 30s under various names. Its modern name was officially adopted in 1942 as a result of the reorganization of Japanese martial arts by the DAI NIHON BUTOKUKAI. Its emergence as a major martial art and its spread outside of Japan took place after World War II." from http://www.aikidojournal.com/encyclopedia?entryID=18

Regardless, the difference between what name was chosen (aikibudo) or what name was relented to (aikido) by O-Sensei is, in my mind, rather small. The difference, not my mind....

I am almost certain I have seen a quote, somewhere, by Ueshiba Kisshomaru quoting his father as saying he had decided on this name...but at the moment am at a loss to produce it.

Nick Pittson wrote: Regardless, the difference between what name was chosen (aikibudo) or what name was relented to (aikido) by O-Sensei is, in my mind, rather small.

I perhaps miss your earlier point then, it seemed that you were drawing attention to OSensei's choice to move away from bu in his art?

Nick, Chris is correct. Very well documented. It may not be a huge difference in your mind, but since you brought up names like aikibudo, which he did choose at some point, and contrasted the two...an important difference.

Best,
Ron

David Skaggs wrote: Whatever the style of Aikido whether it is Mickey Mouse, Squirrel, Rocky & Bullwinkle, Donald Duck or goofy it is still basically Aikido. And if you scrape of the frosting (practice) you will find the cake. Save the jelly beans for me.

Cito Maramba wrote: Sometimes the frosting gets scraped away to find that there's no cake underneath

Nick Pittson wrote: …So, which Aikido are we talking about? I think we are talking about the one that speaks the most to you… …Also, running with the cake analogy, some would argue that if the cake was made using 3.5 eggs instead of 4, or worse, tofu instead of eggs, than it is no longer the same cake...or even considered cake at all. Me? I'll eat whatever tastes tasty. Heated in an oven or not

Hi gentlemen,

Precisely, the analogy is about how we practice the art. Most importantly, it is about the "shidoin" /"sensei" and his/her charges (students). It is said that Aikido means different things to different people. The key point is what it means to the "sensei".

Christian Moses wrote: I perhaps miss your earlier point then, it seemed that you were drawing attention to OSensei's choice to move away from bu in his art?

I think this is one of the reasons for the disconnection. Some people have the impression that O Sensei has moved away from the bu in his art. They think that his techniques are watered down versions of the ones he learned before. Perhaps this thinking caused them to add back frosting and icing. Dropping the kanji "bu" does not mean that he has moved away. He had said and his son had said, "Aikido is budo". IMHO, The key to "bu" is "aiki", hence "aiki" is "bu", hence aikido=budo. BU is always there.

Some think that aikido is not a martial art. In a sense, they are right -- "incomplete" aikido is too dangerous to be called a martial art. There is benevolence in all martial arts. The act of benevolence is art itself. Benevolence must be sincere then the resulting ukeme will be sincere and martial form will appear. "Incomplete" aikido are sometime viewed as a dance.

Everyone have the impression that O Sensei led the way, then his son and now his grandson. Then what are roles of the "shihan", "shidoin", "sensei" and the "senpai"?

Aiki Do is like a coin, it has two equal sides -- Bu and Do. The thing about coin is that you can view one side/face at a time; the only time that you can view both sides is when you put it in front of a mirror -- now that is reflection (pun intended). Another thing about a coin is that some prefer the view of one face more than the other face - that happens after knowing that there are two sides to a coin. Coins are just coins; you receive and dispense them with all their sides/faces in tact.

It is also said that one judges the quality of the teacher by the qualities of his/her students. If one professes to have the skill and qualification to teach or ‘sell' his art to others, then by all means pass on the art /skill in totality regardless whether the students choose to accept or not. One cannot give away half a coin or one cannot give away a coin that one does not possess in the first place. Lately, I have been receiving some "one-sided" coins from senior students with years of experience. So, where indeed did these coins come from?

Unlike cakes, coins cannot be decorated.

FWIW

David Y

Chris Parkerson wrote: Challenge 1. How would you create and maintain an Aikido orthodoxy? 2. Should it maintain a direct connection with Asian teaching methods? Asian thought processes? 3. Should Americans (being pragmatists), for instance, find ways to shorten and improve the process to answer the challenge of how so few people have the kind of time to devote to the art like people did 60 years ago? 4. Can Aikido have a family-bonding element that may not have been addressed by Founder?

Hi Chris,

To answer your questions:

1. I am not qualified to say what is or isn't the Founder's Aikido, let alone can create and maintain Aikido orthodoxy. As an aikido student, I am many generations remote from the Founder. Though my current teacher was a deshi at Hombu dojo in the 60s, he doesn't talk about the spiritual aspect of the art. He is a very reserve person, like his aikido, he is plain and simple. As for his waza, I would say that it's a kind that taste good on its own. Of course, for some who love "decorations" might find it bland..
As for Aikido orthodoxy, it is already existing -- lineages from Hikitsuchi, Shirata, Shioda, Saito and most of the first generation shihan in North America and Europe.
My latest musing about the state of aikido comes from my 37 years of martial art practice. As a "connoisseur", I can tell that some of the Aiki flavor and even Do flavor are gone due to over "decorations and icing".

2. Perhaps. I put it down to an EGO thing pertinent to martial art and the pitfall of the concept of Shu-Ha-Ri. During the night, some "sensei" may wake up to think that they have acquired satori and a purpose to re-invent the art. Some create MMA dojo and some, just McDojo. I wonder which are better dojo. [MMA dojo for definition are legitimate but most do not have direct supervision of a shihan or a specific lineage. Hence, the techniques and syllabus for grading are the dojo-cho's own creations]

3. My musings of aikido is from a small community in Malaysia. In Asia, we concede that all the superlatives are in America -- including ego. I believe there are more MMA Clubs in USA than anywhere else.

4. Aikido like all martial art already has the family-bonding element (I guess you mean the fraternity element). It is evident here in Aikiweb. In fact, my musings here can result in my death on the mats.

Thanks for listening.

David Y

David, can you give concrete examples of the "frosting and icing"? Without naming names of course.. wouldn't want to cause your "death on the mats"!

Cito Maramba wrote: David, can you give concrete examples of the "frosting and icing"? Without naming names of course.. wouldn't want to cause your "death on the mats"!

Hello Cito,

Well, let say a simple pin technique that requires 3~4 steps to complete, MMA will add in 3 more. Probably 2 atemi to the face and one shuto to the elbow or ribs.

For a simple irimi nage, say a tenkan version. as uke come up from the floor, nage atemi uke in the face instead of tilting uke's head to execute the throw. Uke now turns away from the atemi and do a forward roll/flip (normally a ushiro ukeme is done)

Just image using the following diagrams:

A technique that normally requires 3 steps

Add in a few atemi or turns you can create

The practice is not geared towards prefection of the waza. The ukeme is not just to avoid injury but designed to make the nage looked good. There is a element of chereography but be careful though, the nage might changed his routine half way the technique and smacked some extra atemi into uke's face or throw uke in a different way or angle. In a way it is martial but inconsistent. "This is how you fight in a real world" claimed a senior. Somehow, you get the feeling that you are preparing to do a public demo on aikido. A lot flips and swirls of the hakama. Nage will sometime "assist" with flow of Uke's hakama, for example,.in a kotegaeshi as just uke is flipping over, nage yank nage's arm upwards thus providing a spectacular lift up into the air for uke to decend downward.

The truth of the matter is that in a jiyu waza or nanin-gake, The nage will be crobbled by one uke while giving the extra atemi or turns or twists to the other

Because of the inconsistency, there is no immediate trust between the uke and nage. Trust is built up after familiarization with nage's behavior. Horsing around during and after class is common and so is injury.

So, Cita, anyone can do decorations. In Shoriji Kempo it is called "Embu" - prearranged sparring. When properly co-ordinated, Bu is present and when it is not, Do is absent.

FWIW

David Y

Hi David,
Thanks for the examples.
I agree that inclusion of unnecessary atemi is "frosting and decoration". Note that I said "unnecessary" because I subscribe to the following dicta:
1. In Aikido the outcome should be decided in the moment of contact
2. Throws and pins are done with the rhythm and feeling of atemi

In the example you gave, the atemi in the face is unnecessary and actually creates a "suki" (opening) for uke to counter the irimi-nage (with sankyo, for instance).

What I am also concerned with is people doing a form of Aikido that is all frosting and no cake beneath... It has the outward appearance of Aikido but has absolutely no martial intent or application.
Have a look at this video for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20-4zDQSO9k

Cito Maramba wrote: Hi David, ...What I am also concerned with is people doing a form of Aikido that is all frosting and no cake beneath... It has the outward appearance of Aikido but has absolutely no martial intent or application. Have a look at this video for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20-4zDQSO9k

Bad example, Cito.

Those were kids in yellow belts (9th kyu??). Show me two adults with black belts and wearing hakama doing the same thing and I will agree it is frosting with no cake.

Cheers

David Y

Nick Pittson wrote: I am almost certain I have seen a quote, somewhere, by Ueshiba Kisshomaru quoting his father as saying he had decided on this name...

Not flaming here, but this doesn't make it so. With all due respects, Kisshomaru Doshu also chose other things (and people, too) to be "selectively" remembered and forgotten.

Hi Cito,

This is a continuation of my last post:
From my last post, you didn't notice from the diagrams as to why the Nage could manage to execute those extra steps. Did he not break Uke's balance and posture? Or, did he lost control and allow Uke to regain his/her posture? Aikido is about intent. Did Nage intend to neutralise Uke's aggression in the shortest time or was it his intention to toy with the Uke? In the same context, where's the cake?

Cheers
david Y