Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-28-2008, 04:07 AM   #1
Guillaume Erard
Dojo: Aikikai Hombu Dojo
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 150
France
Offline
Post New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Hi everyone,

I just translated into English an interview I did last month with Christian Tissier Shihan for Aikidoka Magazine. I thought an interview of Sensei available in you language was a rare enough thing to be worth mentioning here. You can find it published here in English. I hope you will find it of interest and sorry in advance for any spelling/grammar mistake I did while translating!

All the best

G

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008, 05:28 AM   #2
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Fantastic interview! Merci beaucoup!

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008, 05:35 AM   #3
Mrose
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

very interesting article. Thank you for sharing it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008, 07:10 AM   #4
Upyu
Dojo: Aunkai, Tokyo
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 591
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Read the interview, and thought it was interesting from the standpoint that I think that its these kind of statements that serve to cloud a lot of the issues surrounding Ki/Kokyu within Aikido. (From a third person perspective, from someone outside)

Especially from a high ranker (7th dan). :-p

Quote:
Interviewer: About natural principles, we often hear about Ki, the energy flow. You don’t speak much about it though…

Tissier: No I don’t. The reason is that it is a very confusing notion. I have seen quite a bit in Aikido, I have met quite a few Senseis and I must say that the ones who speak of it the most are often the ones who have the poorest technique. Of course, this is not true for everybody but Ki is not tangible. Ki is within us. There is Ki everywhere, either we know how to use it or we don’t. The fundamental issue with Ki is its flow. In terms of Aikido vocabulary, we have Ki and Kokyu, which is the vehicle for Ki. The translation of Kokyu is “breathing” but to be more accurate, in reality, Kokyu is the exchange between the two.
The bottom line is that if you practice with your stiff shoulders up to your ears, the Ki won’t flow, any acupuncture practitioner will tell you. As a consequence, until the technique is perfect, there will be no Ki, no natural flow. To me, people who really have Ki don’t feel it because everything happens naturally within them.
We could of course develop exercises such as the ones proposed by Qigong in order to specifically work on breathing. We could also specifically work on flexibility or other things but to what end? I consider Aikido as a whole system that as been well thought. It is therefore useless to concentrate on only one aspect of the art, in particular if it is to the expense of practice time. If we have to specifically work on flexibility, we can go to a specialist, same for breathing but we should not mix everything up.
To get back to the Ki I prefer not to say too much about it as I think the discourses about this topic are often very misleading.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008, 09:08 AM   #5
dbotari
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 97
Canada
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Rob,

What are you taking issue with in the section of the interview quoted? Is it Tissier Shihan's contention that there is no need to train Ki/Kokyu skills separately? Or do you have an issue with his basic explanation?

Just curious.

Dan
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008, 12:55 PM   #6
charyuop
Dojo: Ponca Aikikai
Location: Ponca City, Oklahoma
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 130
United_States
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Great! Hope you won't mind, I will place that link in an Italian Aikido forum as well. Tissier is very much hestimed in Italy and sure they will love to read this interview.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008, 01:59 PM   #7
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Well, he is correct in that the discourses about it are often misleading.

Best,
Ron ('nough said)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008, 03:13 PM   #8
Upyu
Dojo: Aunkai, Tokyo
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 591
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Quote:
Dan Botari wrote: View Post
Rob,

What are you taking issue with in the section of the interview quoted? Is it Tissier Shihan's contention that there is no need to train Ki/Kokyu skills separately? Or do you have an issue with his basic explanation?

Just curious.

Dan
Both actually.
Let's to put it this way. If I didn't know who he was, and had no idea of his rank, standing etc, and I heard someone make those comments about ki/kokyu, I'd automatically assume he didn't know what he was talking about, or, in the worst case be able to do these things, as harsh as that may sound.
Since I've never touched hands with the guy, I won't really comment on that aspect.
Anyways, my main point was that those kind of comments don't really serve to de-mysticize the subject.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008, 03:51 PM   #9
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

That's going to be an interview that will come back to haunt, Tissier, I'm afraid. A lot of people are beginning to box in what the meaning of "ki" is and understand, for instance, the what's and how's of the "ki tests" by Tohei, some of the demo's by Ueshiba and others, and it all begins to hang in (despite the disparate demonstrations) as a pretty cohesive family of skills. And it becomes more and more obvious as knowledge and practice increase. Can someone do waza very efficiently without understanding what the ki stuff is talking about? Sure, that's obvious, too. But no writing by Ueshiba K., Tohei, etc., toss it off as some intangible and metaphysical phenomenon as Tissier just did. So now everyone knows the earliest possible date that Tissier could *begin* to study the ki in Aikido. Fascinating.

Best.

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008, 06:26 PM   #10
Irv Lachow
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6
United_States
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Thanks very much. I've seen Tissier Shihan twice at the Aikido Bridge Seminar hosted by Jeff Todeman Sensei in San Diego and his Aikido is amazing up close: it's extremely powerful and flowing. The man is a very good martial artist. He's also extremely nice and humble off the mat.
Cheers,
Irv

Last edited by Irv Lachow : 02-28-2008 at 06:29 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 07:27 AM   #11
Jack M.
Location: Baltimore, MD
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 13
United_States
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

I think it's important to note that after the section of the interview quoted at the beginning of this thread, Tissier Sensei talks about how technique "unlocks the body," and allows ki to occur naturally.

Perhaps something is lost in the translation, but to me, Sensei is taking a naturalistic approach to ki, and not making a big deal out of it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 07:49 AM   #12
Guillaume Erard
Dojo: Aikikai Hombu Dojo
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 150
France
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Quote:
Jack Walter wrote: View Post
I think it's important to note that after the section of the interview quoted at the beginning of this thread, Tissier Sensei talks about how technique "unlocks the body," and allows ki to occur naturally.

Perhaps something is lost in the translation, but to me, Sensei is taking a naturalistic approach to ki, and not making a big deal out of it.
I think you got it right here Jack, or at least, that is exactly the way it sounded to me when Mr Tissier answered my question. Again, sorry for the possible inaccuracies of my translation guys.

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 08:24 AM   #13
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Here's the quote:
Quote:
Ki is not tangible. Ki is within us. There is Ki everywhere, either we know how to use it or we don't. The fundamental issue with Ki is its flow. In terms of Aikido vocabulary, we have Ki and Kokyu, which is the vehicle for Ki. The translation of Kokyu is "breathing" but to be more accurate, in reality, Kokyu is the exchange between the two.
The bottom line is that if you practice with your stiff shoulders up to your ears, the Ki won't flow, any acupuncture practitioner will tell you. As a consequence, until the technique is perfect, there will be no Ki, no natural flow. To me, people who really have Ki don't feel it because everything happens naturally within them.
We could of course develop exercises such as the ones proposed by Qigong in order to specifically work on breathing. We could also specifically work on flexibility or other things but to what end?
I dunno. I read it several times, charitably, and looking for something I might be missing. Often when I read translations of comments about ki from Kisshormaru Ueshiba, Seiseki Abe, Minoru Inaba, Tohei, etc., the problem is usually the translator, but reading beneath the translation and seeing the way the sentence elements are put together, I don't have much problem seeing someone who really knows and understands ki. Hmmmmm ... maybe we should make a compilation of the important ki thinks that are already available.

But in regard to this Tissier one, I would bet the house mortgage that he simply doesn't really understand the concept. Can someone do strong, powerful, flowing, practiced "Aikido" techniques and not have ki/kokyu skills? Of course. And that is a big problem... the ki/kokyu skills are not something that you spot easily if you don't know about them. Even Tohei was known to make remarks about some of the higher dans because they had nice-looking techniques, but no ki.

And I go back to a comment I've made before. If someone has pretty good ki skills, then they should be able to do all of Tohei's ki-tests quite easily, because those are simple static tests. Moving with ki would be where the rubber meets the road, IMO.

YMMV

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 08:59 AM   #14
Shizentota
 
Shizentota's Avatar
Dojo: Hakusan A.K.I.
Location: Chile
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 50
Chile
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

"There are of course some education systems that are totally different from mine. Some are very strict and precise but sometimes so stuck within their own codes that they can't free themselves from it. That is a shame…"

I like this, .

Thanks for the posting, great interview
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 09:25 AM   #15
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Quote:
Manuel Aldunate wrote: View Post
"There are of course some education systems that are totally different from mine. Some are very strict and precise but sometimes so stuck within their own codes that they can't free themselves from it. That is a shame…"

I like this, .
I think the saying represents a lot of "Aikido" that is out there.

Best.

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 09:45 AM   #16
Shizentota
 
Shizentota's Avatar
Dojo: Hakusan A.K.I.
Location: Chile
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 50
Chile
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

That´s true Mike,
I liked when I free my self from some codes and something inside me says Aha!!! after that I try to follow the codes that my sensei is giving to me, and then I try to open this codes to experience more "Aha" in my practice.

Best
Manu
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 10:18 AM   #17
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,170
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Christian Tissier

".... I think the discourses about this topic are often very misleading."

Quote:
Robert John wrote: View Post
....I think that its these kind of statements that serve to cloud a lot of the issues surrounding Ki/Kokyu within Aikido.
Huh?

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 10:57 AM   #18
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,170
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Well, he is correct in that the discourses about it are often misleading.

Best,
Ron ('nough said)
Don't go clouding the issue now.

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 11:15 AM   #19
Upyu
Dojo: Aunkai, Tokyo
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 591
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Quote:
Jack Walter wrote: View Post
I think it's important to note that after the section of the interview quoted at the beginning of this thread, Tissier Sensei talks about how technique "unlocks the body," and allows ki to occur naturally.

Perhaps something is lost in the translation, but to me, Sensei is taking a naturalistic approach to ki, and not making a big deal out of it.
Ok, let's put it this way. It doesn't simply occur "naturally." Not unless you're shown specifically what to develop, how to develop it etc.
If you could do these skills there's no way you would make a statement like that

I remember a friend quoting Abe-sensei in Kyoto who would hint at how to develop it but when pressed on the details would say
"Oh yes there are ways to train it, but they are indeed secret. And its not something I'll tell anyone how to do" yatta yatta yatta
Which is more forthcoming than most Japanese of his age. Most times they won't even tell you that you're missing something
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 11:40 AM   #20
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,170
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

From the thread, New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Quote:
Robert John wrote: View Post
Erm...the gist of that interview was that Tissier doesn't know or have Ki/Kokyu skills, which is even more troubling if you ask me.
Does anyone else think that is the gist of the interview?

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 12:16 PM   #21
Guillaume Erard
Dojo: Aikikai Hombu Dojo
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 150
France
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

One thing that I appreciated while talking to Mr Tissier was his modesty and openness towards other styles and ways. It does not seem to be the case for all of us here...

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 12:22 PM   #22
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

I appreciate his styles and ways. I just think that his answer begs the question. And some that are said to be very good at "aiki" have specifically said that those who talk about "allowing the ki to flow" don't really understand "aiki".

Look, maybe he knows more than he's saying. I'm sure (from watching his vids) that he could tie me in more knots in more ways than I can count. But we are talking about a very specific thing, which is often not talked about, or talked about in esoteric, hard to understand terms, or dismissed, or talked about in generalities that don't help you to develop it.

All I am saying is that his statement falls directly into one of those categories.

Best,
Ron (no disrespect intended, and I wish you could hear that without disrespecting me...)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 12:31 PM   #23
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Quote:
Guillaume Erard wrote: View Post
One thing that I appreciated while talking to Mr Tissier was his modesty and openness towards other styles and ways. It does not seem to be the case for all of us here...
I'm modest (heck, I even close my eyes when I change my underwear) and I'm open. But if any disagreement I have with another view causes my personal character to be questioned.....

Regards,

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 12:34 PM   #24
jss
Location: Rotterdam
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 459
Netherlands
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Does anyone else think that is the gist of the interview?David
Yes and no. For those interested in ki/kokyu it is the gist, for others not. And Ron made a good comment of giving someone the benefit of the doubt.

Anyhow, Tissier's answer is a clear sign for all people interested in developing ki/kokyu that there is no reason to go study his aikido (to develop these skills). Even if (huge if) Tissier has developed these skills through his naturalistic approach, a quicker and safer route would be finding a teacher of whatever style that does teach ki/kokyu skills explicitly and then reverse engineer aikido.

Joep
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 12:35 PM   #25
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,170
Offline
Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

He is very explicit on how to develope ki.

Christian Tissier,

"We could of course develop exercises such as the ones proposed by Qigong in order to specifically work on breathing. We could also specifically work on flexibility or other things but to what end? I consider Aikido as a whole system that as been well thought. It is therefore useless to concentrate on only one aspect of the art, in particular if it is to the expense of practice time."

David
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido Podcast - Interview with Shihan Robert Nadeau! skinnymonkey General 0 09-22-2007 08:06 PM
Christian Tissier Shihan Dublin June2007 Guillaume Erard Seminars 5 03-29-2007 10:52 AM
Christian Tissier & Mazhar Dardari mazhar dardari General 1 05-29-2005 06:40 AM
Seminar: Christian Tissier Shihan en Santiago de Chile AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 09-18-2003 06:28 PM
Christian Tissier Sensei Seminars Dana Seminars 4 02-26-2001 11:40 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:23 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate