Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-31-2006, 04:09 PM   #1
Ken Zink
Dojo: Komyozan Dojo - Boise, ID
Location: Boise, ID
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15
United_States
Offline
Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

This is an old video that was made by my teacher's teacher, Barrish Sensei. He still teachers Aikido but is now a Shinto Priest and operates the Tsubaki Grand Shrine up in Granite Falls, WA.

Aiki

I'm curious if anyone else out there has experience with this type of teaching. My teacher Kimbal Sensei demonstrates this on a fairly regular basis but although I've experienced it as Uke many times over the years its still remains a mystery in many ways.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 06:18 PM   #2
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

I apparently am only able to assess with my left brain and do not understand ki. There was far too much there that pushes my credibility zone (uke's moving before any movement on nage)- yellow bamboo. Sorry-just my opinion.

My sensei only has no touch throws when there is a clear threat to the uke's safety and the uke bails out-no because of some mystical energy but due to safety. Trust me he has ki-you can feel it when you grab him.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 06:38 PM   #3
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
Location: Houston
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 608
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

I have to agree with Dr. Riggs but I will say that I liked his (Barrish Sensei's) movement. It was natural, smooth and extremely well done. It looked like he has done those a million times. I personally enjoy the physicality of Aikido but if you practice with that way regularly, I can see how both nage and uke could get some proficiency at it. It looks cool but stretches what can be reasonably expected from normal folks who aren't shinto priests. I think any comments from our MMA and BJJ regulars won't be as measured and subdued as the first two you have just received. Better get your fire gear on.
Thanks for sharing the video.
Jorge

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 07:05 PM   #4
Jeremy Hulley
Dojo: Seattle School of Aikido Shinto Ryu/Seattle Icho Ryu
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 127
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

Agreed about the movements lookign clean but....
I might call it a good demo..but as far as it showing ki...
Looks all to over complaint too me..
I don't really see any ki there at all...

Jeremy Hulley
Shinto Ryu Iai Battojutsu
Tuesday Night Bad Budo Club
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 07:09 PM   #5
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

A valid comment on the fluidity and relaxed nature of the movement.. However, when you are holding a jo, as an example, and there is no movement on the jo and people just start flying off their grabs it stretches the imagination. As stated the MMA and BJJ guys will have a field day with that.

The uke's are definitely well connected.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 07:12 PM   #6
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

Here is a good example of relaxed connection as well: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...s+aikido&hl=en
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 08:41 PM   #7
jeff.
Dojo: aikido of morgantown
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 42
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

i really want to believe this. i mean: if this is real, the world is a much cooler place. a lot more fun. this doesn't mean i disbelieve, but i think it would be important to experience it for myself before making any judgements.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 11:54 PM   #8
Don
Dojo: aikido of charlotte
Location: Charlotte
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 112
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

If one wants to take a charitable position, it would seem to me that at least in some of the video, the uke's are reacting to movements made by nage but in a very stylized manner. For instance when he makes a motion toward their head in preparation for irimi nage, uke's head snaps back, but at least in the slow mo of the video it appears very overstylized. One might even extend that explanation to the no touch stuff where uke(s) are advancing toward nage and nage moves toward them. One might explain this as uke's reaction to nage's movement.....however it is a real stretch. For instance if you as uke are moving in toward me and I feint atemi at your head, if you are aware you may stop and draw your head back. Further if you as uke are spooked by that and I advance toward you, you could conceivably step back and I could then take balance and throw or project.

Much of what we see as apparently miraculous throws have a component of this leading I think, but also have a component of "stylized reaction". I think some of this is trained by the particular sensei/school and some of it comes culturally from Japan.

That is not to say that someone who daily trains many hours per day for many years would not be able to so read a person's intent/attitude and body mechanics that they would not be able to pull off some pretty interesting throws. I saw Tamura sensei a few years a go at the 40th anniversary USAF summer camp and had a few chances to watch him up close. He would walk around (now this is a shihan in his late 70's) and offer his wrist to some young strapping blackbelt and they would be unable to do the technique unless they had used considerable muscle power. He would stand there and have himself well coodinated in position AND he would subtlely move to put uke at a disadvantage. Then he would switch roles and do the technique on them. It took me quite a while to see this but he would always present for instance a wrist and as uke was attacking he would very subtlely change position or move so that uke was in a disadvantaged position. That was much more interesting and tangible than no touch throws. It was real, it was something IF you saw it you could practice, and there was no stylized falling or reacting.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 01:49 AM   #9
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,021
Japan
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

For what its worth - when he's in Japan one of his students plays with us.

If the student is a reflection of his teacher than perhaps his methods require a second look - the student is pretty good.

In the aiki arts - "stylized reactions" are as common as our own denial. Holding on when you would normally let go, resisting in defined ways, not resisting in others. Take your pick.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 01:52 AM   #10
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
New Zealand
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

ok I'll bite.

Some of the movement was actually quite nice. The spritualism/philosophy I could do without.

The big problem here as has been mentioned is the compliance of the ukemi. Uke is leaping into breakfalls rather than rolling out once they already find themselves in the air. Barrish had what I thought were some quite nice entries to unbalance uke, but where in reality that's all that would happen - uke is unbalnaced - here uke falls, leaps, shudders to the ground. What's annoying about this sort of practice is that you only get to practice the initial stage of the technique - the entry and off balancing. How do you keep uke off balance? How do you adjust to a variety of strategies on uke's behalf to reclaim balance? You never get to practice because uke is too busy wide eyed on the ground saying "wow dude that was awesome!"

He also lost me at he start with the "aiki is natural movement" angle. I hate the drive in some quarters to say aiki is everything - in that case why have a word for it? And if all it is is natural movement, why is aikido notorious for taking decades to come to grips with?

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 02:21 AM   #11
Ken Zink
Dojo: Komyozan Dojo - Boise, ID
Location: Boise, ID
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15
United_States
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

Well I agree you should approach anything you havn't experienced personally with caution. Myself, I've experienced my Sensei perform many different things using Ki but really no point in relating them because it would just come down to an argument of whether I'm telling the truth or am just crazy. Suffice it to say I've been true to myself and in those instances tried everything I could to make it *not* work to no avail so at this point I find value in it.

My original question though, is if there are others out there that are taught in this fashion?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 03:03 AM   #12
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

I agree with most posted above. I thought that it was actually quite an interesting video. I wish I could get hold of it to add to my collection. From the physical aspect, I thought there was a lot of good stuff in there, Barrish sensei had very nice movement at times. There were a number of instances that, as previously mentioned, over stretch rational thinking, uke's seemed to fall at points when not neccessary, or overplay the ukemi. Having said that, there was a lot of atemi in there, if the uke's believe that they are going to get clocked if they don't move, then some of the movement was justified. I think I would like to uke for him, with an open mind. If O Sensei were alive today performing similar feats, how would we be reacting here? I do think that video will fuel a lot of fire, but it also provides a lot of food for thought.

Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote:
The spritualism/philosophy I could do without.
I thought it was actually a plus point that someone was making an effort to explain parts of Aikido philosophy in English. As far as O Sensei was concerned, the philosophy is key to Aikido, it was adding shinto philosophy amongst others, that changed his Daito Ryu to Aikido. More effort should be made to try an understand it, for without it we are not really doing Aikido, we are merely doing Jujutsu techniques.

If anyone knows how I can obtain a copy of this please let me know.

rgd
Bryan

Last edited by batemanb : 01-01-2007 at 03:05 AM.

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 03:59 AM   #13
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

Apart from the overtly cooperative uke in both, there's a big difference between http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80&q=aikido+ki
and
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...s+aikido&hl=en

One has "extension" in all directions and one doesn't....

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 05:52 AM   #14
graham
 
graham's Avatar
Dojo: Northampton Ki Aikido Club
Location: Northampton
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 134
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

Looked nice, but all the grunting put me off!

The second video seemed far more believable to me. That's partly because I've seen our Sensei do some similar stuff, occasionally. But, also because the Uke's aren't quite as dramatic or reacting with such an orgasmic look in their eyes!

Last edited by graham : 01-01-2007 at 05:58 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 08:29 AM   #15
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
Location: Houston
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 608
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

Quote:
Bryan Bateman wrote:
I agree with most posted above. I thought that it was actually quite an interesting video. I wish I could get hold of it to add to my collection. From the physical aspect, I thought there was a lot of good stuff in there, Barrish sensei had very nice movement at times. There were a number of instances that, as previously mentioned, over stretch rational thinking, uke's seemed to fall at points when not necessary, or overplay the ukemi. Having said that, there was a lot of atemi in there, if the uke's believe that they are going to get clocked if they don't move, then some of the movement was justified. I think I would like to uke for him, with an open mind. If O Sensei were alive today performing similar feats, how would we be reacting here? I do think that video will fuel a lot of fire, but it also provides a lot of food for thought.
I thought it was actually a plus point that someone was making an effort to explain parts of Aikido philosophy in English. As far as O Sensei was concerned, the philosophy is key to Aikido
Bryan
I think Bryan has some good points. Here are some observations.

1) I was impressed with Barrish Sensei's movements. He was really fluid and in part was reacting well to the ukes attack although when you work with your own uke's that has to take away more than 50 percent of what you are looking at. I was impressed though with the blind fold demo. I didn't think it demonstrated ki but rather a lot of practice with those ukes. If he really wasn't peeking - that was impressive! (I really had to believe he was peeking but that would be a little hard to do and still be that fluid. That is why I thought it was probably a ton of practice).

2) I thought Barrish Sensei's positioning was pretty good too. It shows he learned some real Aikido somewhere that wasn't all ukes falling for him. (Does anyone know his background? Who was his teacher?)

3) I agree with the comments about the ukes finishing too soon by taking the falls (or making the falls). The nage never finishes the technique. That is the key point that stretches credibility. At this point, you have to accept invisible Ki power or know that you have some highly mentally conditioned ukes (if the ukes believe they have been thrown by ki). I tend not to believe in that (although it is claimed for O Sensei) because Kisshomaru Ueshiba apparently never picked up those powers from his father. Although I have never liked his Aikido that much, I have a lot of respect for Nidai Doshu because he never tried to imitate his own father. He accepted who he was, he trained, he went out there, he did things in an unassuming way with no flash, no aiki tricks and he went home. He did his job of being the leader and promoting the art and he did so as a gentle, quiet man with no flare or frills and he didn't try to tell anyone else what they had to be.

4) I think there's a big discussion to have about the "overplaying" or "conditioning" of ukes.
I think all the great Aikido masters have "conditioned" ukes. I have always felt that Master Gozo Shioda's ukes were highly conditioned because the type of falls they took have to be learned and take a lot of work to learn like the backwards fall. That kind of a fall on the strikes he gave wouldn't happen in real life. If he hit me in the throat with his fingers like that, I think I would just go splat. Not going slat means I had the time to make the adjustment to the fancy break-fall. To me that is cooperation between the two parties. My own Shihan, when he was young, did real Aikido and really hard Aikido. I happen to know he taught ukemi but just the rolls. He doesn't teach people how to take break-falls. Either you had learned them somewhere else or if you were his original student and you flipped, then it was because he flipped you but I don't think he believes you should break fall yourself. (His theory of ukemi is really unique and interesting). I have a tape of him doing a Basic Technique series about 17 years ago. The ukes are really being thrown. They flopping all over the place. They look terrible but that's because he is really throwing them. If you slow motion frame by frame it, you can see that. (For example, from watching him, I learned that if you are really going to flip someone with iriminage, you have to do it differently than if they are helping you by also projecting themselves for safety. When it is for real, it is different. The same goes for kotegaeshi.)
Now having said that, as his own students get more experience, they teach themselves how to do ukemi break-falls but because he doesn't teach that, they all have come up with different methods!

It has to be admitted that we do condition our ukes so we can work with them and so they won't get hurt as we practice. I do that too. BUT- we shouldn't try to play that off as some invisible power. My Shihan though is very unique in that he has dedicated his life to what is real. He doesn't ask anyone to tank for him. Some of us though tank so we won't get killed because when I didn't tank, it was really bad. Once, I was knocked out because I failed to move. It was really my fault. I found out he was really doing the atemi and I'd better get out of the way or drop before he hit me (That's what John Riggs is talking about). Once he got me in a sankyo and when I didn't start running backwards, he nearly tore my arm off. I think it was the scream I gave that startled him that made him let me go! He was not try to intentionally hurt me like some do. He was just doing the technique for real and I was on my own. Any way, I think I'm still on topic because these ukes on the video are doing way beyond their job to make things look real. They are into super-real.

Jorge

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 09:08 AM   #16
Ken Zink
Dojo: Komyozan Dojo - Boise, ID
Location: Boise, ID
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15
United_States
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

Quote:
Jorge Garcia wrote:
2) I thought Barrish Sensei's positioning was pretty good too. It shows he learned some real Aikido somewhere that wasn't all ukes falling for him. (Does anyone know his background? Who was his teacher?)
I don't know all of the specifics but his was actually a school of Aiki-jitsu, before his teacher passed away he inherited the school. He then went the route that O'sensei took and adapted his form of Aiki-jitsu to Aikido. So his lineage does not go back directly to O'sensei but back somewhere into the past with the Aiki-jistu.

He very much admired O'sensei, especially the spiritual teachings and philosphy and adopted them and that is partially what led him to becomeing a Shinto priest at the same shrine which O'sensei was enshrined at (Tsubaki). Which btw there has to be something said for that because he is the only caucasion Shinto priest.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 09:22 AM   #17
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
Location: Houston
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 608
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

You originally called him your teacher's teacher. Who was your teacher and what art did he do? What art are you doing?

Jorge

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 01:43 PM   #18
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
New Zealand
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

Quote:
Kenneth Zink wrote:
Well I agree you should approach anything you havn't experienced personally with caution.
true in some respects - we've all experienced stuff that felt more effective than it looks no doubt. But when you can clearly see uke providing their own energy to leap into a roll, while under no threat from substantial atemi etc (and sometimes even with that threat) it tells me what I need to know.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 02:05 PM   #19
Murgen
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 34
United_States
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

I found the video distrubing in two ways.

1) if it is fake and just dance, then this is what in some places Aikido has come to. KI that only works on his students. Seen this before.

and

2) if it is real, it distrubs me since I do not understand it.


My gut feeling is #1 since that I can understand that. Against a BJJ or Muay Thai fighter, I bet he wouldn't get the same reactions.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 02:12 PM   #20
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
New Zealand
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

well to be fair *none of us* would get the same reactions vs a MT or BJJ practitiioner as we do in the dojo - thats not what aikido is for. More to the point imo -uke like that deprive nage of the opportunity to practice.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 02:53 PM   #21
Murgen
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 34
United_States
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

Yes, when training you have to flow. But if he is demonstrating KI skill that can knock a person down without touching them, I'd like to see him try it on a fully resisting Uke (that isn't his student). For some reason there are few videos of that. I saw one video like that and the Ukes are BJJ students from another dojo. The Uke stands there with an expression like, "What, am I supposed to fall now!?"

Last edited by Murgen : 01-01-2007 at 02:56 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 03:27 PM   #22
Mashu
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

Thank you for putting up the link to the video. It was interesting. I remember reading something about Sensei Barrish in the past and looking at his website but have never seen him in action.

Found this on Aikido Journal from 2001 which features some comments by someone with direct contact with him:

Koichi Barrish
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 06:12 PM   #23
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
Location: Houston
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 608
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

Thanks Matthew. All the answers about Barrish Sensei were on that thread at Aikido Journal including two people that knew him directly. Also, there is in fact, a biographical article about him in the well known "Aikido In America" book as well. What everyone on both sides says about him is repeated over and over including the mysterious status of his backgorund.
Best wishes,
Jorge

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2007, 03:54 AM   #24
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

I am an aikidoka and a BJJ dude. I could do a video, lets say Michael and I both got together to do one. I could be his fully resistive Uke and we could agree that he would strickly use aikido principles.

Lets say I am free to hit him and feint and all that stuff, grapple and take him down.

What would it look like? I know most of you want to see Michael continue to maintain the same stylized Aikido that we all say "hey that's aikido".

Fact is, I believe, that what you would see would be clinch, takedown, dominate, submit.

Michael would say, cool, my aikido works, I'd say cool good aikido Michael. All you watching would say "hey that is MMA, I thought they were going to show aikido!"

that is the trouble with this paradox I think.

Aikido is a methodology to teach principles. These principles are universal and apply to MMA, BJJ, and any other thing you do, even picking up a heavy box.

I think we have to be very careful not to get tunnel vision and start thinking of aikido as a style of fighting or a method of actual combat.

One of the big problems with the methodology of aikido is that we form attachments to it, and start thinking of it in ways it was not meant to be thought of. We fixate on this and project our fears, personalities, and energy on this concept that really does not exsist (aikido concept that is). We try and make it something it is not.

This causes a two fold issue. one, some erode it into a dance. two, others fixate on it and try and develop it into a fighting style.

Fights are simple really...just go watch a bunch on Youtube. close distance, clinch, takedown, submit. Say it again five times. (this is my mantra these days!).

I think we have to be careful when we look at things and really think hard about what is going on, what is trying to be taught. It may be warranted that uke jump through the air at times seemingly out of context. Remember one of the things aikido is teaching is ma 'ai. If uke is too slow he may need to catch up, maybe that is what is being worked on...I don't know?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2007, 06:13 AM   #25
jeff.
Dojo: aikido of morgantown
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 42
Offline
Re: Crazy Ki demonstration by Barrish Sensei

kevin

i really appreciate this post. here's osesnei saying pretty much the same thing, methinks: "Absorb venerable traditions into this new art by clothing them with fresh garments, and build on classic styles to create better forms." to wit: aikido is not limited to what we now think of as "aikido technique". aikido technique is any technique that maintains aikido principles as its center. so when i recently demonstrated a technique that combined something i learned from budo taijutsu with irimi nage, i didn't feel like i wasn't doing aikido.

however, i would just caution against thinking that aikido waza aren't applicable. i've seen all of the controls used to great effect, as i have with irimi nage and some kokyu nages. hell, i've been able to use aikido technique to avoid being taken to the ground and ultimately win the fight. not against some highly trained bjj player, but the fella had been a champion high school wrestler. i also recently broke up a fight in which a bjj guy i know was fighting three guys, and doing what he knows, took one of them to the ground (quite beautifully) and then started getting kicked in the face by the other two. while i suspect that aikido randori training would help me to be more likely to avoid exactly that situation. and this past summer i helped to teach "tactical aikido" to some d.e.a agents, most of whom have since used what we taught them in the field.

all of this is why i find this video interesting. if what he is doing is real, even if the exact outcomes are the result of the specific ukemi training they receive, i see how it is applicable. yet another expansion of possibilities, both in terms of spiritual development and defense applications.

fun!

jeff.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Steven Seagal Interview ad_adrian General 45 01-15-2010 03:34 PM
Desperate to rehabilitate ki peter martin-browning General 50 04-12-2006 10:41 AM
Stanislavsky and Ki DaveO General 11 01-20-2006 10:11 AM
Randori Seminar with George Ledyard Sensei aikibaka131 Seminars 11 10-24-2003 12:30 AM
Train In Ki And Why chadsieger Training 54 06-15-2002 10:26 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:27 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate