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Old 07-23-2006, 01:26 PM   #1
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Aikido Strategies

I finally picked up Miyamoto Musashi's Book of Five Rings, and it really is quite interesting. Many things on strategy, currently I am on the Scroll of Fire chapter and I have found alot of things I have never thought of.

One I just read "Crossing the Ford" is pretty cool. Crossing the Ford, knowing and having insight into your opponents situation at every moment so as to take advantage of times of weakness. Or to create times of weakness and use that to your advantage.

Once during Randori I was placed in a 4 on 1 scenario. I was Junior to the participants so I went last. My future uke had energy, so I thought it would be best to deplete thier energy as much as I could while keeping reserves of my own.

I attack with rear shoulder grabs mostly and when I did the Nage would struggle, I would not let go unless made to. The other uke would attack while I hung on. 10 attacks each. All the other Uke would have finished except me. So I would attack fast keeping Nages breathing hard. And repeat through all the other Nage until my turn.

All the other Nage burnt out because I made them struggle, and since I saved my attaks for last that almost doubled thier time for thier exertion. When it was my turn my Uke were exhuasted, I could defend against Uke 1, throw him down and it would take time for each breathless Uke to get up. Eventually all the Uke were down or trying to get up.

I didn't think to, but I could have walked up to each Uke as they laboured to stand and push them over with my foot, keeping all uke down. If they got up I could make them chase me and put them down again. Fun, fun, "Crossing the Ford".

Stop thinking and the mind begins to think for itself.
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Old 07-23-2006, 01:43 PM   #2
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Aikido Strategies

In Martial arts the "Art of Advantage" is what it is all about. It seems to conflict with Aikido's ways. However as a student to always strive to outdo others, to gain any advantage over others, "Your Top Secret Weapon" ie- Toughening, Weight training, Meditation, coming to a test hours before others etc, is key to winning.

What is done in the Dojo is what you do in a real situation be it physical or mental, strength or strategy. To conquer an opponent in real life and leave unharmed gain total advantage, doing this daily in the dojo becomes what you do and the way you are. Match the others in practice, but put in more, try to last a little longer, put some effort in the things you see others neglect.

If you work in a physical place and can, then use whatever principles you can from Aikido, hips, Extension, one-point concentration, belly breathing. Give some in what you feel are important neglected areas.

Gain advantage, just like chess, you and your opponent are matched in skill but you have more pieces, who wins.

Stop thinking and the mind begins to think for itself.
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Old 07-23-2006, 03:03 PM   #3
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Aikido Strategies

By the way, if anyone knows of any other good books, please let me know. I have Sun Tzu Art of War, Tao of Jeet Kune Do, Secrets of the Samurai, Aikido: Exercises for Teaching and Training, Hagakure, Ki in Aikido, Book of Five Rings, Outline of Japanese Martial Arts, and have read Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere.

Stop thinking and the mind begins to think for itself.
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Old 07-23-2006, 05:04 PM   #4
aikigirl10
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Re: Aikido Strategies

Thats all very interesting.
I dont have anything to add to it, but i found it entertaining anyway. Thanks for posting it.
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Old 07-23-2006, 06:04 PM   #5
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Aikido Strategies

I admit I was chuckling while writing this. Don't make fun of my epiphany though.

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Old 07-23-2006, 07:20 PM   #6
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Aikido Strategies

Cool I just logged on and the author of one of my favorite Aikido books, the one that sparked my interest enough to learn Aikido C.M. Shifflet is reading my stuff, how about that.

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Old 07-23-2006, 11:30 PM   #7
Mike Hamer
 
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Re: Aikido Strategies

Quote:
Trevor Wolfe wrote:
By the way, if anyone knows of any other good books, please let me know. I have Sun Tzu Art of War, Tao of Jeet Kune Do, Secrets of the Samurai, Aikido: Exercises for Teaching and Training, Hagakure, Ki in Aikido, Book of Five Rings, Outline of Japanese Martial Arts, and have read Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere.

Ki in Daily Life

by Koichi Tohei, im almost finished with it, very very enlightning material, that has helped me in a million ways in the dojo.

Also, Aikido and the Harmony of Justice: by Saotome

To speak ill of anything is against the nature of Aikido
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Old 07-24-2006, 02:07 AM   #8
crbateman
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Re: Aikido Strategies

Quote:
Mikel Hamer wrote:
Also, Aikido and the Harmony of Justice: by Saotome
I think you mean "Aikido and the Harmony of Nature"...
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Old 07-24-2006, 12:13 PM   #9
Mark Uttech
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Re: Aikido Strategies

Whew! Thanks Clark! I almost did a doubletake wondering if Saotome had a new book out!
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Old 07-24-2006, 06:25 PM   #10
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Re: Aikido Strategies

hahaaaaha......umm....whoops. ;(

To speak ill of anything is against the nature of Aikido
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Old 07-24-2006, 07:04 PM   #11
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Aikido Strategies

New Art of War book I need by Sun Bin called Sun Bin Bing Fa.

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Old 07-24-2006, 10:30 PM   #12
Carol Shifflett
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Re: Aikido Strategies

Quote:
Trevor Wolfe wrote:
Cool I just logged on and the author of one of my favorite Aikido books, the one that sparked my interest enough to learn Aikido C.M. Shifflet is reading my stuff, how about that.
Yiii! Busted! Thanks for the great comment tho. Glad it helped.

Cheers!
C. M. Shifflett
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Old 09-03-2006, 07:22 AM   #13
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Aikido Strategies

Grabbing defenses seem to be of a very dynamic flowing sort. Relaxation and sensitivity are of utmost importance, though I came to Aikido with a residual crash and smash scrappy attitude in the beginning. So tension has been a thorn in my side, however this idea would not work so well without a grabbing attack, closing the eyes seems to make me lower my center, relax totally because I lose my visual crutch and am forced to be physically sensitive and I find myself less distracted.

The other day our class did blind folded grabbing randori and I found myself sensitive to the space of the room, I could feel when I was close to the wall in the midst of attacks and stopped realized I was right near the front wall of the class room. Neat how I could feel the wall near me. Anyway, removing my visual crutch for grabbing techs if I feel the technique is not functioning properly because of tension is the way to go so long as it can be done safely.

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Old 09-04-2006, 08:37 AM   #14
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Aikido Strategies

K, just a thought. You know how the saying goes, "It's all in the hips"! Well, I've pondered that, and I came to a conclusion. It is in the hips but thats kinda a tricky spot to focus your movement. If your focusing there wouldn't people appear to be thrusting around as they throw.

I'm beginning to think thats the polite version, it seems to work better if you following along to the Ice Cube song going "you can do it put your back into it, you can do it put your A$? into it" Ha Ha well the A$? is connected to the hips and it helps to lower the centre, and even watching clips of the big time Aikidoists I have observed that it appears to be the case, they say its all in the hips, but I say put your a@! into it.

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Old 09-13-2006, 09:44 AM   #15
philippe willaume
 
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Re: Aikido Strategies

i could be mistaken but I always understood crossing at the ford as taking the shortest/easiest route?
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Old 09-13-2006, 10:17 AM   #16
Mike Sigman
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Re: Aikido Strategies

To that list of books, I would definitely add "Aikido Shugyo". It's extremely practical and mentions "strategy" in terms of dealing with opponents fairly clearly, even in a real-fight scenario.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
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Old 09-13-2006, 12:12 PM   #17
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Re: Aikido Strategies

I suggest looking into some books on bokken or sword training, perhaps a book on the jo as well. Reading the books doesn't help my aikido a whole lot, but training with weapons does.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:04 PM   #18
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Aikido Strategies

Quote:
Philippe Willaume wrote:
i could be mistaken but I always understood crossing at the ford as taking the shortest/easiest route?
Exactly, if you look into what I did you should come to see I created an easy unobstructed path to my goal.

By the way thanks for the book tips, I should look into them provided I come across one just mentioned in my travels.

Stop thinking and the mind begins to think for itself.
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Old 09-14-2006, 01:01 AM   #19
Kevin Wilbanks
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Re: Aikido Strategies

Quote:
Trevor Wolfe wrote:
Exactly, if you look into what I did you should come to see I created an easy unobstructed path to my goal.
What was the goal? To get an ego boost from your seemingly good performance in the randori exercise by any means necessary?

It seems to me like you conspired to lessen the value of your training by making it less challenging. Moreover, when you were being uke for others, you weren't acting in the interests of their training goals, but secretly in the service of your own selfish ulterior motives, so you ended up cheating them as well.

In the future, I suggest that you could probably make things even easier and make yourself look really good in class by somehow administering a soporific drug to all your training partners before class started. With them all half-conscious, you could look like a real bad-ass and wouldn't even have to break a sweat. Would that also be in line with your goals?
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Old 09-14-2006, 05:16 PM   #20
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Aikido Strategies

I actually enjoyed that response, I mean it's calling it as it is but in a funny way. Your right, however I only did it the once. My goal in Randori is more and more becoming not really winning so much as surviving, I learn as I experiment. But really I loved that response. Drugging, now thats the idea Kevin!

Last edited by Saturn : 09-14-2006 at 05:19 PM.

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Old 09-17-2006, 10:02 AM   #21
Amir Krause
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Re: Aikido Strategies

Quote:
Trevor Wolfe wrote:
I finally picked up Miyamoto Musashi's Book of Five Rings, and it really is quite interesting. Many things on strategy, currently I am on the Scroll of Fire chapter and I have found alot of things I have never thought of.

One I just read "Crossing the Ford" is pretty cool. Crossing the Ford, knowing and having insight into your opponents situation at every moment so as to take advantage of times of weakness. Or to create times of weakness and use that to your advantage.

Once during Randori I was placed in a 4 on 1 scenario. I was Junior to the participants so I went last. My future uke had energy, so I thought it would be best to deplete thier energy as much as I could while keeping reserves of my own.

I attack with rear shoulder grabs mostly and when I did the Nage would struggle, I would not let go unless made to. The other uke would attack while I hung on. 10 attacks each. All the other Uke would have finished except me. So I would attack fast keeping Nages breathing hard. And repeat through all the other Nage until my turn.

All the other Nage burnt out because I made them struggle, and since I saved my attaks for last that almost doubled thier time for thier exertion. When it was my turn my Uke were exhuasted, I could defend against Uke 1, throw him down and it would take time for each breathless Uke to get up. Eventually all the Uke were down or trying to get up.

I didn't think to, but I could have walked up to each Uke as they laboured to stand and push them over with my foot, keeping all uke down. If they got up I could make them chase me and put them down again. Fun, fun, "Crossing the Ford".


I think you are missing it all together. A grabbing Randori is not a fight. It is a practice intended for learning. Therefore, your entire perception of the situation is flowed and you have done the exact wrong thing strategically. You should have tried to get your Uke up and running for your turn, so you would learn best, instead, you tried to wear them down.

As Nage, I prefer Uke who gives me a realistic response and does not throw himself. But may I ask how did you reach a rear shoulder grab ?
Did you go all around the person or did you come directly from his back (the first is not the common realistic situation and then, your approach makes even less sense).

The strategy you take should be adjusted to the situation. During practice, your strategy should maximize your learning, not your "fighting achievements".


Amir
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Old 09-17-2006, 10:36 AM   #22
Saturn
 
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Evil Eyes Re: Aikido Strategies

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote:
I think you are missing it all together. A grabbing Randori is not a fight. It is a practice intended for learning. Therefore, your entire perception of the situation is flowed and you have done the exact wrong thing strategically. You should have tried to get your Uke up and running for your turn, so you would learn best, instead, you tried to wear them down.

As Nage, I prefer Uke who gives me a realistic response and does not throw himself. But may I ask how did you reach a rear shoulder grab ?
Did you go all around the person or did you come directly from his back (the first is not the common realistic situation and then, your approach makes even less sense).

The strategy you take should be adjusted to the situation. During practice, your strategy should maximize your learning, not your "fighting achievements".


Amir
Don't worry I was only six months into Aikido.

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Old 09-17-2006, 11:58 AM   #23
Mike Grant
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Lightbulb Re: Aikido Strategies

Quoting Kevin Wilbanks: 'In the future, I suggest that you could probably make things even easier and make yourself look really good in class by somehow administering a soporific drug to all your training partners before class started. With them all half-conscious, you could look like a real bad-ass and wouldn't even have to break a sweat. Would that also be in line with your goals?' Unquote.

The legend is that more Americans were killed by sodium thiopentone at Pearl Harbor than directly by the Japanese.

On the other hand, maybe somebody could administer a 'soporific drug' to you Kevin...

Last edited by Mike Grant : 09-17-2006 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 09-17-2006, 03:03 PM   #24
Kevin Wilbanks
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Re: Aikido Strategies

Geez Mike. You couldn't reply with anything of substance to my arguments on the injury thread, so you resorted to fallacies, insults and condescension. You couldn't even let it drop out of respect for the express wishes of the injured man. You had to get in a parting insult. I was prepared to let even that drop, but now you are resorting to thread-stalking me to carry out your grudge... now including what looks like anti-American bigotry!?!.

While I admit I find all this attention flattering, I feel obliged to point out that you are violating one of the most basic rules of this discussion board. This is a civilized place where we are expected to confine our criticisms to another person's ideas about, and behavior in, the discussion at hand. You can do so with snideness and caustic rhetorical flourishes if you like, but what you are doing is waging a personal insult campaign against me, and a rather unimaginative one at that. Not only are you making a fool of yourself; I suspect that if you keep it up, you'll be jeapordizing your membership here.

Last edited by Kevin Wilbanks : 09-17-2006 at 03:10 PM.
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