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Old 08-06-2001, 10:53 PM   #1
Stuart
Join Date: Aug 2001
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aikido is weak

I watched an aikido class and I must say that aikido doesnt work one bit. its very weak and fake.

Its very sloopy, and weak. I dont get it? Is this really a martial art or a joke? One punch or kick, and you guys are gone. Sloppy women and men doing it. What a joke.

Take karate or kikboxing for some real effective fighting.
 
Old 08-06-2001, 11:44 PM   #2
Greg Jennings
Dojo: WPAFB JiuJitsu Group
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Re: aikido is weak

Quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
I watched an aikido class and I must say that aikido doesnt work one bit. its very weak and fake.

Its very sloopy, and weak. I dont get it? Is this really a martial art or a joke? One punch or kick, and you guys are gone. Sloppy women and men doing it. What a joke.

Take karate or kikboxing for some real effective fighting.
As in my other reply to Stuart:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt".

Cheers!

Greg Jennings
 
Old 08-06-2001, 11:45 PM   #3
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
Location: Houston
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I don't know what dojo you were at but please understand that in every art, there is an occasional school that in fact, is not very good. I would invite you to come to the ShinKiKan Dojo in Houston Texas. Maybe it will look different to you. You may even want to get on the mat. We train all the time with karate black belts and kickboxers and they seem to have good regard for us. You may find that all schools are not the same!

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
 
Old 08-06-2001, 11:50 PM   #4
dainippon99
Dojo: Tulsa Aikido & Jujutsu
Location: Tulsa, OK
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chill out everyone, hes just trying to be an asshole.

Always be well,
Bobby David
 
Old 08-07-2001, 02:05 AM   #5
ze'ev erlich
 
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Dojo: Masatake Dojo (Israeli Aikido Organization)
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Cool DOZO DOZO

If you happen to be in Israel or Japan, please come to my dojo and try to practice with one of my beginners for one hour...
Then we will see what you think of Aikido.

Ze'ev from Masatake Dojo Rehovot
www.aikikai.org.il
Israeli Aikido Organiziation (Aikikai)

 
Old 08-07-2001, 02:10 AM   #6
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
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I agree with Bobby and Greg. This person is not worth our time responding to. It's called trolling and intentionally meant to provoke a fight. Plus we have much better threads on this site that discuss this matter ad nauseum.

Let it go.

Anne Marie
 
Old 08-07-2001, 03:30 AM   #7
aikilouis
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I've just noticed one could put someone on your buddy list ! Who wanna try with Stuart ?

Louis R Joseph
 
Old 08-07-2001, 04:45 AM   #8
JJF
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by dainippon99
chill out everyone, hes just trying to be an asshole.
True! But one must admire the great job he's doing.... .

I'm not sure Stuart went to a bad dojo - maybe he did maybe he didn't. I'm more inclined to believe that he's not able to understand what it is all about. Actually very few people are before getting their feet wet themselves. So:

Yes Stuart! - you don't get it!
yes! it is a martial art!
no! it's neither fake nor weak when done correctly

Now go join your precious kickboxing or karate dojo for some REAL fighting.... (snicker).... or show some balls and give Aikido a fair chance before you insult us again.

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
 
Old 08-07-2001, 04:57 AM   #9
Tim Griffiths
Dojo: Nes Ziona Aikikai
Location: Suzhou, China
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Talking

I joined in a karate class and I must say that
karate doesnt work one bit. its very stiff
and fake.

Its very sloppy, and weak. I dont get it? Is
this really a martial art or a joke? One tenkan
or iriminage, and you guys are gone. Sloppy
women and big ugly men doing it. What a joke.

Take aikido for some real effective harmonising.



If one makes a distinction between the dojo and the battlefield, or being in your bedroom or in public, then when the time comes there will be no opportunity to make amends. (Hagakure)
 
Old 08-07-2001, 04:18 PM   #10
Tighe Estes
Dojo: Ronin Bushido Aikido Inc.
Location: Georgetown, KY USA
Join Date: Apr 2001
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I would say that you are basing your view of Aikido on a select group of practitioners without the advantage of understanding. What type of people are you observing in practice, are they avid martial artist types...dojo dogs, there whenever the door is open? Or are they simply looking at Aikido in terms of recreation or exercise. Are thier instructors also sloppy and "weak" appearing? If so that could be the root of the problem, as bad instructions creates bad students.

I have often seen college kids walking to Jeet Kune Do classes on campus...they couldn't begin to stand up to a real attack (I seriously doubt that many 'practitioners', myself included, could), but does that mean that Jeet Kune Do is ineffective and weak? Not at all, just that the representatives of the system that I have observed are.

There is really no true standard of 'measuring' a martial art of philosophy, as it transcends the abilities of it's students. I honestly believe that Aikido is the perfect martial art, which makes it that much harder on it's students as they try to learn it. It demands a 'perfect' practitioner to do it justice.

I agree the the low intensity nature of many Aikido dojos invites atypical students (I was grossly overweight for an eleven year old when I started), but measuring the worthiness of any art by its followers is folly. In that case Christianity would be viewed as the sum of the worst hypocrites, the Hippocratic Oath seen as the pledge of med school washouts, and Universities rated by the lowest student GPA's.

I'm sure that there are a lot of inneffective karateka and kickboxers, (especially now that 'cardio' kickboxing is in vogue) but a generalization of Aikido based on a few observations is worthless and shortsighted.

Sincerely,
Tighe Estes
 
Old 08-07-2001, 05:15 PM   #11
Jim23
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 482
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Feels like I've been here before. *cough* *choke*

I fully understand how this guy feels, because I felt that way too. In fact, every once in a while, I still feel a little that way ... hmm. However, I shall persevere.

I think a major part of the problem (for me anyway) was seeing people wearing brown belts that would never (should never) be awarded that belt in another martial art - it reminded me a little of children's karate classes.

The difference now though, is that I do "get it" as so many people suggested I didn't earlier.

Stuart, it all boils down to the students in the dojo, which really boils down to the instructor.

Jim23

Remember, all generalizations are false
 
Old 08-07-2001, 05:38 PM   #12
Greg Jennings
Dojo: WPAFB JiuJitsu Group
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim23
In fact, every once in a while, I still feel a little that way ... hmm. However, I shall persevere.
Well, Jim ...heh, heh, heh... the next time you get to feeling that way, come play with us here rather than just perservering. We'll cure you right away or at least provide some aches and pains to distract you.

At least no one has thrown up this week although we had a close call last night.

Regards,

Greg Jennings
 
Old 08-07-2001, 05:55 PM   #13
Mike Collins
Location: San Jose
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By all means, all means do try Shin Ki Kan in Houston. Do get on the mat. Better yet wait about a month and do it in the first weekend in Sepetmber.

I guarantee you a thrill. Especially if ya bring an attitude.

Go pick on the little old guy that weekend.
 
Old 08-07-2001, 05:59 PM   #14
Jim23
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Greg,

Oh, I've had the aches, pains and bruises, believe me - that's not what I meant though.

I've met some very good aikidoka and also some pathetic ones as well. We all have. Too many of the latter is the problem!

With regrads to inflicting unecessary pain or even causing damage (which I'm sure you didn't mean ), I've seen that in karate too. Didn't impress me there either.

Jim23

Remember, all generalizations are false
 
Old 08-07-2001, 09:02 PM   #15
Suru
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In the immortal lyrics of Enigma,

Don't be afraid to be weak
Don't be too proud to be strong

Drew
 
Old 08-07-2001, 09:40 PM   #16
Nick
Dojo: Aikido of Greater Atlanta
Location: Atlanta, GA
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Re: aikido is weak

Quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
I dont get it? .
Obviously not.

Last edited by Nick : 08-07-2001 at 09:56 PM.

---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
 
Old 08-07-2001, 10:07 PM   #17
Stuart
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ok... You guy's can attack me all you want but, you know i'm right. Deep down inside that is you know.

In karate you can punch and kick although I think kick boxing is even better because you really know how to punch ( gloves) and kick a lot (you hear.. KICKboxing). In aikido you just pretend to throw and hold the other guy down on the floor (or women).

You know! A hard kick will stop you in your spin's. spin.....kick... fall.

You SAY you are better than karate or kick boxing but where's your proof, all you do is pretend with each other? I've never even seen an aikido fighter in a real match. Take off your shirt and try to fight. It will never happen right? Just a lot of talking and talking.
 
Old 08-07-2001, 10:22 PM   #18
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 915
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Hi Stuart,
I'm sorry you did not enjoy your visit to an Aikido dojo, or find anything of value to you there. As you can tell, many of us do really have a good time, and a lot of us have found more than we thought possible when we first started.
Do you mind me asking, why you chose a somewhat billigerent approach to communicating with us? Is there something we can explain or do for you?
 
Old 08-07-2001, 10:37 PM   #19
Stuart
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I don't really want to argue with a woman with this question.

Do you beleive in KI? I've been reading about Ki here a lot, flow your energy hard into your throws. yea right.

Try it in your kicks too and you will be invincable. SHoooooiiiiiaaaiiii!! That kick took your head off. Ki...shmi.... maybe a little more time on the kick-bag please guys to get really effective (and women). An aikido guy kicking a kick bag.....right....really?? No way in my life time.
 
Old 08-07-2001, 10:40 PM   #20
Greg Jennings
Dojo: WPAFB JiuJitsu Group
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
ok... You guy's can attack me all you want but, you know i'm right. Deep down inside that is you know. <SNIP>
Nope. Never claimed to be better. Trained in karate and full-contact kickboxing and enjoyed them; thought they were great. Aikido is just my thing right now; think it's great too. Feel the same way about judo, jodo, iaido and several others.

But, I digress:

You say you can down aikidoka with one punch _or_ one kick. I say your mouth has made a wager that your a** can't cover.

So, in poker terms, I call. Come try me. You can find my dojo through the website in my signature.

I'll even let you have one punch _and_ one kick. You drop me, I'll give you $100; you fail for whatever reason, you give me $100.

Put up or shut up. And I didn't even take my shirt off.

But, you know what, you'll never show.

Another quote for you:

"Better to have lightening in the hand than thunder in the mouth".

Cheers!

Greg Jennings
 
Old 08-07-2001, 10:52 PM   #21
guest1234
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Stuart,
You sound frustrated and angry and very much alone, not an easy place to be as a young man. You really don't have to take on the world to get attention, or try to prove anything. I think you are trying to make a statement that you like kickboxing. We got that point, on several posts. But still you keep coming back, so it must be that you are looking for something? In what way can we help you?
 
Old 08-07-2001, 10:57 PM   #22
Greg Jennings
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim23
Greg,

Oh, I've had the aches, pains and bruises, believe me - that's not what I meant though.
Well, then, you're training hard and that's all that matters.

Quote:

I've met some very good aikidoka and also some pathetic ones as well. We all have. Too many of the latter is the problem!
I've seen out of place people in every art I've ever seen. Everyone's got different goals, everyone's searching.

Quote:

With regrads to inflicting unecessary pain or even causing damage (which I'm sure you didn't mean ), I've seen that in karate too. Didn't impress me there either.
Nah, I'm talking about the aches and pains from good, honest practice. Hard training.

No matter how gentle, 200 nikyo _will_ be painful. 200 koshinage will cause general "becoming one with the mat" aches.

I mention 200 because that's the number I shoot for when I lead class. I want 200 repetitions of technique per two-hour class.

200 repetitions of anything in two hours in this heat and humidity will leave you wringing wet and ready to kill for a liter of water.

50 repetitions of each of the aikiken suburi in an hour, moving slowly and deeply concentrating on form? Your traps, delts and forearms are _screaming_; you're mentally exhaused.

I just think hard training is where it's at.

Regards,

Greg Jennings
 
Old 08-07-2001, 11:03 PM   #23
Stuart
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Whats this? An aikido guy making me a challenge. hahaha, I will fold you in half like a flag and mop the floor with you too. You don't even know me or who I am. My elbow's will hurt you badly and my knees will bend you in half!!!
You make me laugh. You want me to go to come all the way just to fight with you. hahahahaha!!! Silly worried aikido guy.
 
Old 08-07-2001, 11:15 PM   #24
guest1234
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Quote:
Originally posted by ca
Stuart,
You sound frustrated and angry and very much alone, not an easy place to be as a young man. You really don't have to take on the world to get attention, or try to prove anything. I think you are trying to make a statement that you like kickboxing. We got that point, on several posts. But still you keep coming back, so it must be that you are looking for something? In what way can we help you?
 
Old 08-07-2001, 11:17 PM   #25
thomasgroendal
 
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go STU!

Thanks Stu! I am an aikido black belt, and I agree, aikido has been a total failure for me. At first I thought I would learn this martial art, and get stronger, but no fights ever occured to test that hypothesis, and now I seem to find myself in some wierd attitude where no matter how strong I come on to people who are lonely angry and confused and want violence, they seem to melt away.
But it is a failure. I practice aikido not for the fights that I never have, but for the fights that I do. I fight my pride and my arrogance, but you proved me wrong. I read your mail, and felt a little pissed, a little uppity, and more than a little proud of my "superior" stance in the world. Apparently all these years of practice haven't even prepared me to roll over someone as lonely as you would seem to be. I shouldn't have any problem beating you. You are a digital nidgit, a few words and paragraphs, but here I am with my pulse racing and my ego on the tip of my tongue. I am just like those sloppy guys and gals you had the pleasure of meeting, and probably run into every day when you wake up.
Thanks for the reminder.
I hope you win the fight you're looking for.
I sincerely do.
Tom Groendal
 

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