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Stuart 08-06-2001 10:53 PM

aikido is weak
 
I watched an aikido class and I must say that aikido doesnt work one bit. its very weak and fake.

Its very sloopy, and weak. I dont get it? Is this really a martial art or a joke? One punch or kick, and you guys are gone. Sloppy women and men doing it. What a joke.

Take karate or kikboxing for some real effective fighting.

Greg Jennings 08-06-2001 11:44 PM

Re: aikido is weak
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Stuart
I watched an aikido class and I must say that aikido doesnt work one bit. its very weak and fake.

Its very sloopy, and weak. I dont get it? Is this really a martial art or a joke? One punch or kick, and you guys are gone. Sloppy women and men doing it. What a joke.

Take karate or kikboxing for some real effective fighting.

As in my other reply to Stuart:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt".

Cheers!

Jorge Garcia 08-06-2001 11:45 PM

I don't know what dojo you were at but please understand that in every art, there is an occasional school that in fact, is not very good. I would invite you to come to the ShinKiKan Dojo in Houston Texas. Maybe it will look different to you. You may even want to get on the mat. We train all the time with karate black belts and kickboxers and they seem to have good regard for us. You may find that all schools are not the same!

dainippon99 08-06-2001 11:50 PM

chill out everyone, hes just trying to be an asshole.

ze'ev erlich 08-07-2001 02:05 AM

DOZO DOZO
 
If you happen to be in Israel or Japan, please come to my dojo and try to practice with one of my beginners for one hour...
Then we will see what you think of Aikido.

giriasis 08-07-2001 02:10 AM

I agree with Bobby and Greg. This person is not worth our time responding to. It's called trolling and intentionally meant to provoke a fight. Plus we have much better threads on this site that discuss this matter ad nauseum.

Let it go.

Anne Marie

aikilouis 08-07-2001 03:30 AM

I've just noticed one could put someone on your buddy list ! Who wanna try with Stuart ?

Louis R Joseph

JJF 08-07-2001 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dainippon99
chill out everyone, hes just trying to be an asshole.
True! But one must admire the great job he's doing.... .;)

I'm not sure Stuart went to a bad dojo - maybe he did maybe he didn't. I'm more inclined to believe that he's not able to understand what it is all about. Actually very few people are before getting their feet wet themselves. So:

Yes Stuart! - you don't get it!
yes! it is a martial art!
no! it's neither fake nor weak when done correctly

Now go join your precious kickboxing or karate dojo for some REAL fighting.... (snicker).... or show some balls and give Aikido a fair chance before you insult us again.

Tim Griffiths 08-07-2001 04:57 AM

I joined in a karate class and I must say that
karate doesnt work one bit. its very stiff
and fake.

Its very sloppy, and weak. I dont get it? Is
this really a martial art or a joke? One tenkan
or iriminage, and you guys are gone. Sloppy
women and big ugly men doing it. What a joke.

Take aikido for some real effective harmonising.


:rolleyes:

Tighe Estes 08-07-2001 04:18 PM

I would say that you are basing your view of Aikido on a select group of practitioners without the advantage of understanding. What type of people are you observing in practice, are they avid martial artist types...dojo dogs, there whenever the door is open? Or are they simply looking at Aikido in terms of recreation or exercise. Are thier instructors also sloppy and "weak" appearing? If so that could be the root of the problem, as bad instructions creates bad students.

I have often seen college kids walking to Jeet Kune Do classes on campus...they couldn't begin to stand up to a real attack (I seriously doubt that many 'practitioners', myself included, could), but does that mean that Jeet Kune Do is ineffective and weak? Not at all, just that the representatives of the system that I have observed are.

There is really no true standard of 'measuring' a martial art of philosophy, as it transcends the abilities of it's students. I honestly believe that Aikido is the perfect martial art, which makes it that much harder on it's students as they try to learn it. It demands a 'perfect' practitioner to do it justice.

I agree the the low intensity nature of many Aikido dojos invites atypical students (I was grossly overweight for an eleven year old when I started), but measuring the worthiness of any art by its followers is folly. In that case Christianity would be viewed as the sum of the worst hypocrites, the Hippocratic Oath seen as the pledge of med school washouts, and Universities rated by the lowest student GPA's.

I'm sure that there are a lot of inneffective karateka and kickboxers, (especially now that 'cardio' kickboxing is in vogue) but a generalization of Aikido based on a few observations is worthless and shortsighted.

Sincerely,
Tighe Estes

Jim23 08-07-2001 05:15 PM

Feels like I've been here before. *cough* :) *choke*

I fully understand how this guy feels, because I felt that way too. In fact, every once in a while, I still feel a little that way ... hmm. However, I shall persevere.

I think a major part of the problem (for me anyway) was seeing people wearing brown belts that would never (should never) be awarded that belt in another martial art - it reminded me a little of children's karate classes.

The difference now though, is that I do "get it" as so many people suggested I didn't earlier.

Stuart, it all boils down to the students in the dojo, which really boils down to the instructor.

Jim23

Greg Jennings 08-07-2001 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim23
In fact, every once in a while, I still feel a little that way ... hmm. However, I shall persevere.

Well, Jim ...heh, heh, heh... the next time you get to feeling that way, come play with us here rather than just perservering. We'll cure you right away or at least provide some aches and pains to distract you. :) :) :)

At least no one has thrown up this week although we had a close call last night.

Regards,

Mike Collins 08-07-2001 05:55 PM

By all means, all means do try Shin Ki Kan in Houston. Do get on the mat. Better yet wait about a month and do it in the first weekend in Sepetmber.

I guarantee you a thrill. Especially if ya bring an attitude.

Go pick on the little old guy that weekend.

Jim23 08-07-2001 05:59 PM

Greg,

Oh, I've had the aches, pains and bruises, believe me - that's not what I meant though.

I've met some very good aikidoka and also some pathetic ones as well. We all have. Too many of the latter is the problem!

With regrads to inflicting unecessary pain or even causing damage (which I'm sure you didn't mean ;)), I've seen that in karate too. Didn't impress me there either. :):)

Jim23

Suru 08-07-2001 09:02 PM

In the immortal lyrics of Enigma,

Don't be afraid to be weak
Don't be too proud to be strong

Drew

Nick 08-07-2001 09:40 PM

Re: aikido is weak
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Stuart
I dont get it? .
Obviously not.

Stuart 08-07-2001 10:07 PM

ok... You guy's can attack me all you want but, you know i'm right. Deep down inside that is you know.

In karate you can punch and kick although I think kick boxing is even better because you really know how to punch ( gloves) and kick a lot (you hear.. KICKboxing). In aikido you just pretend to throw and hold the other guy down on the floor (or women).

You know! A hard kick will stop you in your spin's. spin.....kick... fall.

You SAY you are better than karate or kick boxing but where's your proof, all you do is pretend with each other? I've never even seen an aikido fighter in a real match. Take off your shirt and try to fight. It will never happen right? Just a lot of talking and talking.:(

guest1234 08-07-2001 10:22 PM

Hi Stuart,
I'm sorry you did not enjoy your visit to an Aikido dojo, or find anything of value to you there. As you can tell, many of us do really have a good time, and a lot of us have found more than we thought possible when we first started.
Do you mind me asking, why you chose a somewhat billigerent approach to communicating with us? Is there something we can explain or do for you?

Stuart 08-07-2001 10:37 PM

I don't really want to argue with a woman with this question.

Do you beleive in KI? I've been reading about Ki here a lot, flow your energy hard into your throws. yea right.

Try it in your kicks too and you will be invincable. SHoooooiiiiiaaaiiii!! That kick took your head off. Ki...shmi.... maybe a little more time on the kick-bag please guys to get really effective (and women). An aikido guy kicking a kick bag.....right....really?? No way in my life time.:eek:

Greg Jennings 08-07-2001 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuart
ok... You guy's can attack me all you want but, you know i'm right. Deep down inside that is you know. <SNIP>

Nope. Never claimed to be better. Trained in karate and full-contact kickboxing and enjoyed them; thought they were great. Aikido is just my thing right now; think it's great too. Feel the same way about judo, jodo, iaido and several others.

But, I digress:

You say you can down aikidoka with one punch _or_ one kick. I say your mouth has made a wager that your a** can't cover.

So, in poker terms, I call. Come try me. You can find my dojo through the website in my signature.

I'll even let you have one punch _and_ one kick. You drop me, I'll give you $100; you fail for whatever reason, you give me $100.

Put up or shut up. And I didn't even take my shirt off.

But, you know what, you'll never show.

Another quote for you:

"Better to have lightening in the hand than thunder in the mouth".

Cheers!

guest1234 08-07-2001 10:52 PM

Stuart,
You sound frustrated and angry and very much alone, not an easy place to be as a young man. You really don't have to take on the world to get attention, or try to prove anything. I think you are trying to make a statement that you like kickboxing. We got that point, on several posts. But still you keep coming back, so it must be that you are looking for something? In what way can we help you?

Greg Jennings 08-07-2001 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim23
Greg,

Oh, I've had the aches, pains and bruises, believe me - that's not what I meant though.

Well, then, you're training hard and that's all that matters.

Quote:


I've met some very good aikidoka and also some pathetic ones as well. We all have. Too many of the latter is the problem!

I've seen out of place people in every art I've ever seen. Everyone's got different goals, everyone's searching.

Quote:


With regrads to inflicting unecessary pain or even causing damage (which I'm sure you didn't mean ;)), I've seen that in karate too. Didn't impress me there either. :):)

Nah, I'm talking about the aches and pains from good, honest practice. Hard training.

No matter how gentle, 200 nikyo _will_ be painful. 200 koshinage will cause general "becoming one with the mat" aches.

I mention 200 because that's the number I shoot for when I lead class. I want 200 repetitions of technique per two-hour class.

200 repetitions of anything in two hours in this heat and humidity will leave you wringing wet and ready to kill for a liter of water.

50 repetitions of each of the aikiken suburi in an hour, moving slowly and deeply concentrating on form? Your traps, delts and forearms are _screaming_; you're mentally exhaused.

I just think hard training is where it's at.

Regards,

Stuart 08-07-2001 11:03 PM

Whats this? An aikido guy making me a challenge. hahaha, I will fold you in half like a flag and mop the floor with you too. You don't even know me or who I am. My elbow's will hurt you badly and my knees will bend you in half!!!
You make me laugh. You want me to go to come all the way just to fight with you. hahahahaha!!! Silly worried aikido guy.

guest1234 08-07-2001 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ca
Stuart,
You sound frustrated and angry and very much alone, not an easy place to be as a young man. You really don't have to take on the world to get attention, or try to prove anything. I think you are trying to make a statement that you like kickboxing. We got that point, on several posts. But still you keep coming back, so it must be that you are looking for something? In what way can we help you?


thomasgroendal 08-07-2001 11:17 PM

go STU!
 
Thanks Stu! I am an aikido black belt, and I agree, aikido has been a total failure for me. At first I thought I would learn this martial art, and get stronger, but no fights ever occured to test that hypothesis, and now I seem to find myself in some wierd attitude where no matter how strong I come on to people who are lonely angry and confused and want violence, they seem to melt away.
But it is a failure. I practice aikido not for the fights that I never have, but for the fights that I do. I fight my pride and my arrogance, but you proved me wrong. I read your mail, and felt a little pissed, a little uppity, and more than a little proud of my "superior" stance in the world. Apparently all these years of practice haven't even prepared me to roll over someone as lonely as you would seem to be. I shouldn't have any problem beating you. You are a digital nidgit, a few words and paragraphs, but here I am with my pulse racing and my ego on the tip of my tongue. I am just like those sloppy guys and gals you had the pleasure of meeting, and probably run into every day when you wake up.
Thanks for the reminder.
I hope you win the fight you're looking for.
I sincerely do.
Tom Groendal


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