Did Aikido fail you in "real life"?

Once my temper got the best of me and using Aikido techniques I failed the "spirit" of Aikido by hurting the Uke more than was needed. On the other hand That has happened a few times actually... and usually starts with something like F**K You Aikido is for P***ies" or "Aikido does not work against THIS!!!" Followed by an application of Iriminage or Atemi...followed again by "Hey!!! Thats not Aikido!"

If I truely had the spirit of Aikido under these circumstances I would not have lost my temper.

William Hazen

aikido does not mean you never lose you temper... in some instances it is entirely appropriate to do so, what else you do like getting violent is where you start to stray from the path... Osensei had a fierce temper and a gentle spirit... yin and yang...

He did get rather violent sometimes though, didnt he?

I have had a few altercations with other people before. I honestly dont consider myself an Aikido artist, but a Martial Artist....However the techniques I used in one particular event would have been called an Aikido technique....However I learned it from Kung Fu, it was still from the orgins from where the Aiki gets there style...I admire Aikdio very much!
Bruce Lee had a severe temper too....but then again he was like water,,,right?

To my mind, becoming angry and losing your temper are two separate things, though the often go together. Getting angry is sometimes OK, but losing your temper to me implies a lack of control, which should be avoided.

Aikido is teaching me how not to lose my temper.

My line of work has seen me able to practice aikido on unwilling uke on more than the odd occasion for just over a decade now.

It's odd, however, that with 18 years of aikido behind me one of my most trusted applications is a form of Osotogari from the judo I did for 2 years when I was 10.

What that says, I'm not entirely sure.

I failed Aikido in 'real life', not the other way around. I saw a bad situation, tried to intervene, and had no effect. It was a failure of spirit, or focus, or intent, who knows... I had too much to drink, and the aggressor was dangerous-crazy. Do or do not, right? Well, that was a hell of a lesson, and it changed my perspective a lot. As far as I'm concerned, it is the person that fails and not Aikido.

Thankyou, anonymous, for answering the question.

I realise that my question needs to be refrased:

Did you try to use aikido in "real life" to defend yourself/someone else, and YOU failed?

(Since aikido cannot fail. )

Johan Ullén wrote: (Since aikido cannot fail. )

Aikido can fail.
If the technique does not work, it is mostly the person or his training level.

If most aikidoka do not act better in daily life or do not find satisfaction, probably their teachers or the organisations fail.

If is (nearly) impossible to improve personality by seeking to understand the universal power (ki) and get familiar with it to use it in harmony, or if martial techniques do not lead there at all, then aikido failed, and probably O Sensei, got his spiritual strength through Shintoism or Omooto-kyo. But I guess, that was not the question for this thread?



Regards Dirk

Since no one else seem to want to step up to the plate, I will. It's pretty easy to gain some humility after getting beaten all the time.

In my Sambo classes, and at BJJ gyms I've been to, my Aikido technique has failed. A lot. Repeatedly. Like again and again. Like, dammit, why the hell doesn't this stuff EVER work.

After training in Sambo for a year or so, more Aiki-type principles made themselves apparent to me in Sambo/grappling. After a little bit longer, I was able to pull off a couple of what most would consider "pure" Aikido techniques, but not that often. The two that come to mind are hiji-ate and nikkajo.

Sure, it was in a "controlled" environment and I was stepping into "their" world of grappling, but really should that matter? Also, their "controlled" environment with its rules etc. is a helluva lot more uncontrolled than most Aikido dojos. Not to mention, that even though my gym is a sport-focused one, does not mean that we do not cross over into Combat Sambo, or that guys training for MMA don't swing in. As hard and as difficult as grappling is, combine being on the bottom with someone trying as hard as they can to punch you in the face AND submit you, is a real eye-opener.

Anyone out there remember the story related by Terry Dobson when he was living in Tokyo. He was about to use his "Aikido" on an abusive, drunken worker, when an old man sat next to the drunk, put his arm round him and talked to him as if he was the man's father. The drunk ended up crying on the old man's shoulder, thanking him for listening, no harm was done.
Terry Dobson made the comment later, "that was real Aikido". At the grave risk of mixing up 2 different threads (or was it threats?) this is a perfect example of a pre-emptive strike, a mind altering irimi, with genuinely compassionate intent. This was what Terry said he wanted to do as well, but his version would have been more physical.
Aikido doesn't fail us, we fail it: too soft, too hard, too late, too early, etc.......... no

Thanks for that, Alec...
Best,
Ron

Thats a good one Alec. Stories like these always facinate me, btw where can i find the exact source to the Terry Dobson story?

I believe it's in his book, 'It's a Lot Like Dancing'.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188...lance&n=283155

Best,
Ron

It's in "Aikido and The New Warrior" ed: Richard Strozzi Heckler
ISBN 0-938190-56-3
Dozo

If we concede the possibility exists for our Aikido training to fail us, do we admit this to practitioners of other arts in open discussion or are we more reluctant to do that - akin to some form of admission that our training per se has been fruitless perhaps?

Moreover, I wonder if we believe that our Aikido training can let us down when faced with some real-world action, will this carry through into our performance? This I believe would be like conceding to the attacker himself that our art is useless.

What do yous think?

Respects!

I would say any training can fail you, regardless of the art. My personal opinion is that styles like TKD that have gone largely to either complete no contact or extremely light contact style sparring are training for failure in street self defense as well.

When I trained in TKD we trained heavy contact from day in our sparring. As rank white belt beginners we sparred with the black belts because we couldn't hit them hard enough or well enough to injure them and they had enough control over their technique to not injure us. After we gained some experience and control then we started sparring with people similar in ability to our own. It made for the occasional busted lip, bloody nose, etc but it also taught us to actually throw technique and how to handle taking a solid hit and not lose your composure.

If you can identify where you see a breakdown in your training then you know where and how to train to fix that failure.

Or if you are just training for the sake of training then it doesn't really matter.

"That's impossible. Aikido doesn't fail, the Aikidoka only fails to apply the right technique"
Oh, yes! These words are really wise!!!

The student who "keeps going" learns things. Failure and success have nothing to do with it. The fact remains with one who tries, there really isn't anything else to do. In Aikido there are no tournaments, aikido is about your whole life; everyone is a champion trying to be a champion. The rest of life around you, changes and doesn't change to suit you; you become like a bell that "invites" the sound. In gassho

Well, here we are. 70 replies and over 2.000 views later, only one confession concerning aikido failure in real life.

Considering the possibility for viewers to give anonymous replies, one could come to the conclusion that aikido very rarely fails "in real life", despite the lack of sparring, grappling skills etc.

This is indeed happy news!

I have not read most of the responses, and I am sure they all have some good points, but I would like to respond to the original question.

I have been in a few real life hostile, and/or, combative situations after I started training in Aikido. Most hostile situations can be avoided by employing 'aiki' principles that focus on harmonizing and avoiding direct confrontations - it is amazing how often 'hostiles' will respond favorably to a redirection. I believe most people really do want to try and avoid confrontation, and when given a 'face saving' out, will take it.

However, there are those that are determined to take it to the physical. In those situations, your defense is only reflexive and there is no time to mentally prepare yourself to apply a learned technique - you react to a force and respond accordingly without thinking based on the conditioning from your training. I think Osensei called this Takemusu. I have been in a couple situations like this, and that is how it works - things just happen. If you have trained enough, you will subconsciously react to the threat and physically perform with what you have trained to do in similar situations. It works just like that; and those of you who have been there, know exactly what I am talking about.


Greg Steckel

Alright, Im going to add this:

Though Aikido has so far never failed me, I believe that I have failed aikido many times. I have lost my temper many times with many people (off the mat and sometimes though I had a right to be angry, most times I did not). I have been rude to some people, a general c*ck to others. I have lied and cheated and talked badly about others. I have let pride/ego influence me far too much.

Theres probably more, but you know. It's a start. Im trying to be a better person. Doesnt always work.

I would have to say that for me, Aikido has never failed. Let me explain where I'm coming from here. I live in Baltimore and work in Washington D.C. Just by where I am located things can get pretty rough especially in the winter time. See, we tend to get alot of sleet and ice. Not warm enough for all rain, not cold enough for all snow. I do have to say since 1991 when I started I have not once been injured in a fall thanks to my Aikido training. You can also make some pretty amazing volley ball saves in the summer when you don't have to worry about getting hurt in a fall. And if walking from the Union station to work on Ice at 7 am isn't "real lie" I don't know what is.

Good story Dennis.

I remember a few years back when I was in Infantry School I used to carry the M60 Machine gun or M249 SAW (machine gun). Those suckers are forward heavy around your waist. I'd trip in the woods over a stump the gun would learch forward and go right into a forward roll and come up standing and keep on walking. The guys used to get a big kick out of that technique of falling! Beat falling on my face with a rucksack landing on my head!

So far I have only had to even think about using it once. A friend stupidly got involved in a scrap and when I tried to pull him away one of the other guys grabbed my wrist(I was stunned that he actually did that) all I did was leave my arm there tell the guy that I had no wish to fight him and get ready for the next move he made. the guy dropped my arm and walked away. I think the fact that I didn't panic and try to push him or pull my arm back made this fella stop and think for a second. who called aikido the art of fighting without fighting? wise man/woman.