Nice Jiyu waza

Hiroaki Izumi wrote: There are more differences between teachers within a single style than there are differences between different styles, or even different arts.

But not in the foundations of Yoshinkan. Fixed kamae, kihon dosa and kihon waza, even how you sit down!!!!!

Each instructor has their own ideas above that though!

Si Wilson wrote: But not in the foundations of Yoshinkan. Fixed kamae, kihon dosa and kihon waza, even how you sit down!!!!! Each instructor has their own ideas above that though!

Yeah...everyone still focuses on a different aspect of it.

I mean, if there are 237 different points to think about when you stand in kamae, you know that there are going to be 237 different instructors emphasizing each point...differently

<sigh>

--Michael

Bronson Diffin wrote: Nah, YoshiOrcs just have harder rocks in their heads

I bet it makes for one hell of a head-butt atemi though

Bronson

or maybe I meant butt-head??

Please... let's stop this p...... contest!!!! It seems like most of us tend to forget that there should be an element of forgiveness in Aikido

Michael Fooks is dead on - you cannot judge any style of aikido based only on video, and why yes Daren, sign me up for a group hug. Preferably followed by a good practice ;D

BTW: Mark - I'll second that statement about Nishio sensei. He incorporates a gentle attitude with a very powerful technique and some potentially rather nasty atemi blows. Too soft fore some - too hard for others. We have different objectives and needs.

I bet no one becomes an aikido shihan without posessing some kind of qualities and a powerful aikido - the nature of each shihans power however may be based on different aspects of Aikido - Let's stop arguing about what kind of power is better than others, and start learning from each other.

Hmm...I don't really think it is a p..... contest. Although there may be in a point where the thread turned away from the discussion of the video and turned into something else.

I was taking it more as a lot of good natured fun between people who do something very similar but have different tastes.

Anyone every discuss what beer was best (for them) - actually isn't there a thread on that? Should we stop that thread, too? Of course not...because it doesn't really matter.

The point is that the discussion doesn't really matter its just fun to talk about something you enjoy and meet people of similar minds. Based on some of these "discussions" we've had I'm planning on visiting and training with some of the people who are joking together. Unless of course, noone answers the phone when I am in town <sigh>

cheers,

--Michael

Michael Stuempel wrote: Yeah...everyone still focuses on a different aspect of it. I mean, if there are 237 different points to think about when you stand in kamae, you know that there are going to be 237 different instructors emphasizing each point...differently <sigh> --Michael

Michael, I'm up to 235 points, but the last two have got me beat. I think you must have double counted somewhere

Justin

Michael Fooks wrote: It looks like the final throw isn't being completed and that uke is just going.

There are a lot of techniques in the clip that are very smooth looking, but I wonder if it is largely due to the ukes relationship to Robert Mustard.

I quite often see instructors favorite uke being able to receive techniques far more fluidly and effortlessly than other uke do. In many cases it comes down to familiarity with the style and technique of the instructor.

Having said that though, look at the video again, at the 49 second mark; it takes uke several seconds to regain his composure and footing after a very heavy kokyu-nage (uke doesn't even slap from the high fall until after he has hit the ground).

I guess there's something to be said about familiarity and making things look very easy... it looks sensational on video, but may feel very different being on the receiving end.

Justin McCarthy wrote: Michael, I'm up to 235 points, but the last two have got me beat. I think you must have double counted somewhere Justin

D*mn..you're right. I was counting in Japanese and made a mistake in the translation. My apologies to everyone I misled.

--Michael

Justin McCarthy wrote: Michael, I'm up to 235 points, but the last two have got me beat. I think you must have double counted somewhere Justin

Michael Stuempel wrote: D*mn..you're right. I was counting in Japanese and made a mistake in the translation. My apologies to everyone I misled. --Michael

Hmmm, was it a miss count? Did you count tensing your butt and relaxing your, er, groinal area!

Michael Stuempel wrote: I've heard a couple of people (including some of my students) say that in the video Robert Sensei looks too relaxed and that it looks like Nick is throwing himself. I disagree (mainly because I've been his uke and I flinched at some of the throws on the video), but it does bring up the point (as someone else mentioned to me) that it is very hard to judge someone's Aikido from video and also to learn from video. It might also help explain the airy-fairy reputation Aikido has from demos. Any comments? --Michael

I was there in person at that demonstration (you can see me in the stands just as the clip opens) and I've also taken ukemi a couple of times for Mustard Sensei...its not fake, he does throw you, and if your ukemi is not up to snuff (mine often is not) you will feel pain. Little Nick has some really nice ukemi, he is very fit, and from what I hear, a card carrying member of the HARD BASTARD club.

I don't think you can learn from video myself...if you already have a base in the art, you can learn things to add...but the base has to be there already in my opinion. As for judging...I know some people who have very nice aikido that I don't listen to any more when it comes to videos...I know others that I listen to every time. Case by case...as always...

Ron

True, true!

Or "Batula, batula" as they say in the home of the UK Yoshinkan - Malaysia!

Ron Tisdale wrote: I was there in person at that demonstration

I saw you Ron

Michael Stuempel wrote: I've heard a couple of people (including some of my students) say that in the video Robert Sensei looks too relaxed and that it looks like Nick is throwing himself. I disagree (mainly because I've been his uke and I flinched at some of the throws on the video), but it does bring up the point (as someone else mentioned to me) that it is very hard to judge someone's Aikido from video and also to learn from video. It might also help explain the airy-fairy reputation Aikido has from demos. Any comments? --Michael

Totally agree. The late Doshu Ueshiba Kisshamoru was derided in some quarters for his "soft" technique and apparent coreographed Aikido. I only ever took ukeme for him twice but I distinctly remember being shocked at how hard the tatami was especially when it had felt nice and soft two minutes before!

guys, if aikido was all about beating up each other i would instantly stop practicing! didn't osensei himself say that there should be no competition and you should just train for yourself and the only victoy should also be the victory over yourself? and since all "whatevernamed-styles" descend from osensei's aikido - as watanabe sensei, my teacher's sensei said: "all my students are not "my" students, they are students of osensei - i dont get the problem...but to give a statement to the "rocks-discussion": aiki rocks, whether aikikai or yoshinkan aikido or whatever aiki-style...as the names say, its all aiki.

Doka of the Day - December 10, 2004
The sun, the moon and the earth
All have become Aiki.
Standing on this bridge,
The great expanse of the sea is
The Way of the Mountain Echo.

- Morihei Ueshiba

also i did not watch the video yet ;-)

Anselm Kusser wrote: guys, if aikido was all about beating up each other i would instantly stop practicing!

Well, it is not ALL about that!

Anselm Kusser wrote: The sun, the moon and the earth All have become Aiki. Standing on this bridge, The great expanse of the sea is The Way of the Mountain Echo

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall
All the King's horses and all the King's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again

One in Budo,

The mountain does not laugh at the river because it is lowly nor the river laughs at the mountain because it cannot move about. O'sensei

Remember this guys from O'sensei

one in budo,

Kohai Bong

Philip Smith wrote: Totally agree. The late Doshu Ueshiba Kisshamoru was derided in some quarters for his "soft" technique and apparent coreographed Aikido. I only ever took ukeme for him twice but I distinctly remember being shocked at how hard the tatami was especially when it had felt nice and soft two minutes before!

Exact opposite of my experience. When I went to hit him it was like punching smoke. I swear I hit him, at least his gi, but his body wasn't there. When I grabbed, it was like grabbing smoke and the moment I thought "Oh shit." I realized I was already on the ground and didn't realize or feel how I got there. Funny thing, thinking about falling and finding you are already looking up at the ceiling. The people off to the side watching the TV demo being taped said I hit the mats real hard. Maybe I lost consciousness there for a second, I don't know but I can't even remember taking the ukemi so it felt real soft. So, it didn't feel very hard at all even though they said the whole building shook.

Rock

Hey Rock, sounds like a truly wild ride!

Aikido...what a gas!
RT

Vincent Munoz wrote: The mountain does not laugh at the river because it is lowly nor the river laughs at the mountain because it cannot move about. O'sensei

Ring a ring o' roses,
A pocket full of posies,
A-tishoo! A-tishoo!
We all fall down

The experience taught me something though. There is little difference between someone throwing themselves when you ask them to and you throwing someone who resists since the objective is the outcome when it comes to throwing someone. I sometimes think of doing techniques in terms of convincing someone it is more comfortable on the ground than standing. If I apply a nikkyo hard enough, most people will go to the ground since it is more comfortable there. I am not trying to take them to the ground, I am just convincing them that standing there in front of me is not a good idea. The same goes for an irimi nage or shiho nage or anything else. I am convincing them that being somewhere else is a good idea because where they are, they are off balance. Then, the same goes for atemi. It is a better idea for uke to be not where my hand is going than to stay where they are. If they are able to react before my hand hits them, then all power to them. If they are too slow, my hand hits them and they are usually convinced that their head or body is in the wrong place.
I think that is what Doshu did. He convinced my body even as I was attacking him so that my mind had not yet caught up and I lost concious track of what was happening. My body could react that fast but my mind couldn't. I was operating on reflex rather than conciousness so my mind never registered the pounding.

Rock

Michael Young wrote: MY SENSEI CAN BEAT UP YOUR SENSEI NANYNANYBOOBOO

LOL, I would like to see to Aikidoist go at it. Both of your Sensei's just standing there waiting for the other to attack.

LOL, I would like to see to Aikidoist go at it. Both of your Sensei's just standing there waiting for the other to attack.

Nah! My Sensei would attack AND win!!!!!!!!!!

Jordan Steele wrote: My Aikikai sensei rocks and could clean out an entire dojo of Yoshikaners.

Oh, yeah? Well, who do you think would win between your sensei, Superman and the Terminator?