Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

^^ Thanks for the stories, Brenda. At the end of the day, I think the real question is, will it work for you in the real world when you need it? If the answer is "yes," then nothing else matters. You can argue about what should and should not work, but when someone pops up and says "it does," that's the end of the discussion for me.

Hey,Khaled! U say nobody uses sword in our world today? But did u watch "Kill Bill"?

Aikido doesn't require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough"
My sensei is not fat but can still throw 2 people at the same time.

you can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do"
ahhh, in Yoshinkan aikido, the shite attacks!

" many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights"
Grabbing simulates a punch, for me its just the same.

" aikido focuses on hands to applying its techniques and ignores the rest of the body, no kicks no punches no jumping"
Locks are supposed to be applied in a way that it affects the wrists, elbow, shoulder, spine and finally the knees, if it is properly done you dont need to kick and punch

" aikido is only good for seminars and demonstrations"
Because aikido is good!

" aikido is too traditional, no body use sword in our world today"
My sensei still uses his sword

" aikido is a philosophy more than a combat way" etc……
all the orignal combative techniques to kill are not gone, its hidden in all the basic techniques and goes out whenever needed

Salaam Khaled! I keep asking myself those questions as well. Here are some of my answers:
From my short experience, some Dojos may not teach Aikido as a self defense first and foremost. But every kind of Aikido teaches you to be alert, calm, and roll away to safety when needed, which is most of the times a better solution than standing ground and fighting. So even if it's not geared towards self defense, it might actually be more effective than you can think or measure.

But not all dojos are like that. My instructor is big on self defense, and he says that O'Sensei was one of the greatest warriors of his time, and undefeated. He formulated this Martial Art, used it succesfuly, his students used it succesfuly, so who can claim it doesn't work?

No one uses the sword.

Feel free to replace it with a golf club, baseball bat, stick, broom, Swiffer, etc., and see if the techniques change.

I know I put my two cents in before, but I can't resist doing it again.

Romuel Villareal wrote: Aikido doesn't require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough" My sensei is not fat but can still throw 2 people at the same time.

Same here. Furthermore, the mere fact of having to get up ~200 times during a practice helps me work up a sweat; it's the hardest thing I do right now!

you can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do" ahhh, in Yoshinkan aikido, the shite attacks!

Other brances, too, although sometime this is symbolized by starting from hanmi; extending ki can be considered being a ste ahead, it seems. Morote Dori has also been taught as uke grabbing nage's attack and nage then goes to the aiki buffet.

" many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights" Grabbing simulates a punch, for me its just the same.

And don't forget shomen cuhi, yokomenuchi, and punches which don't involve grabbing anything.

" aikido focuses on hands to applying its techniques and ignores the rest of the body, no kicks no punches no jumping" Locks are supposed to be applied in a way that it affects the wrists, elbow, shoulder, spine and finally the knees, if it is properly done you dont need to kick and punch

Ahhh, I wouldn't mess around with leg locks unless someone had taught you leg locks -- you may think they're the same but they'r'e not. OTOH, no jumping? Whaddya call a flying breakfall, then?

..... " aikido is too traditional, no body use sword in our world today" My sensei still uses his sword

Nobody in the USA in AD 2006 uses a stick in their right hand and a knife in their left, either, but that doesn't stop FMA people from doing espada y daga. Aikido's body mechanics come from Japanese swordsmanship, so that is good to know.

You're right, don't "waste" your time practicing Aikido, make full use of it.

Lynn Seiser wrote: You're right, don't "waste" your time practicing Aikido, make full use of it.

Very nice, Lynn!

Recent converstation I had:

"...but aikido is fake. It's not really fighting."

"that's exactly why I feel like I can practice it."

Oh! The same old song.
Well, talking about real life:
"Aikido doesn't require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough"
Not exactly. I have been in Aikido classes that have been more strenuos for my body than Karate classes, for example. But
a) YOU can look for a better physical conditioning without hanging on the art for receiving it. Just make more exercise at home or gym.
b) If this talk about physical is true, then AIkido is a more universal art, because it can give a surviving chance to elder persons, physically weaker human beings and other 'easy targets' that violence choose with preference. A thug is a coward, he will pick up on a weaker prey, not on a strong athlete.
" you can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do"
a) Depends on Sensei: I was taught to preemptively strike when necessary BUT we are not waiting passively. No. We are receiving his energy and redirecting it against himself. This is not passive at all. This is a very useful concept. And for the weaker person it is great not to depend on the force of muscle to defend herself, but to rely on the momentum of the aggressor who willl crash against the wall thanx to a good Tenkan.
I am not so strong, for example. When I see big Golems on the street, I thank God that I don´t rely in my punching power only against them. I rely too on their own momentum and their articulations, thanx to AIkido.
" many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights"
Hmmmm? These guys really know their business huh? What degree are they in Aikido? None? How can they speak about something they don´t know well?
a) What about the Chudan Tsuki, Shomen Uchi, Yokomen Uchi, etc. that YOU make in your Dojo? Are those grabs????
b) And who said that in a fight there is not grabbing? When persons tend to close the range, what happens?
" aikido focuses on hands to applying its techniques and ignores the rest of the body, no kicks no punches no jumping"
a) Atemi is 70% of Aikido in the street: remember. All the time we are taught to hit on the middle of control, and kicks are included in many Aikido programms. But again depends on Sensei.
b) By the way, ask the older fighters. They will tell you that Kicking is dangerous on real situations. And jumping????? No comments!!!!! Having both feet well grounded is the more wise attitude on a real fight, man! These guys have ever fought on reality?
" aikido is only good for seminars and demonstrations"
a) Bull Butter. The testimony of many persons around the world negates that.
b) Besides is good for Self DEVELOPMENT. This is important.
" aikido is too traditional, no body use sword in our world today"
a) And cutting attacks? Sure are they gone? Have you heard of machete attacks? I do.
b) Besides, with a Bokken you make attacks that are similar to a iron lead to the head, very street like.
My Gosh! Make an apliccation of what you train! Is all in the street!
" aikido is a philosophy more than a combat way"
etc……
Is a philosophy of no - combat? True. Is not a combat way? True. is useless for Self Defense, false.
About effectivity against other martial arts: is not devised for fighting, against NO ONE. But if you are not in the wrong place (tenkan) they can not hit you, ay? I have succesfully avoided Wing Chun, Kali and other MA´s attacks with Tenkan after Tenkan. There is a moment when they always say: Let me hit you! And by the way, my two best training partners are
a) a Brown Belt active Karate practitioner
b) A brown Belt ex Ju Jitsu practitioner, with experience in FMAs and other arts.
All the others have previous experience in other Martial Arts. And this is a common situation in the whole world. In fact the first generation of AIkidoist was composed of skilled Budo warriors. Why do these persons like AIkido then?
They like Aikido, and they have tested it´s efficiency.

Man, is up to you. If YOU want to learn AIkido, learn it. If YOU don´t like Aikido, drop it. But don´t let OTHERS to decide about your life. Everything here is personal.

Hope this helps
Your friend
DudSan

Khaled Abdullah wrote: I didn't lose my faith in aikido, but between u and me aren't they have right in some thoughts??? Is aikido useful and effective in real situation and against other martial arts?

Why can't you decide for yourself if aikido is effective? Do you need other people to confirm your beliefs for you? Ask yourself these questions.

1) Why am I training in martial arts?
2) Why did I choose my current martial art?
3) What do I expect to get out of my current martial art?
4) What am I getting (or what do I feel I'm getting) out of my current martial art?

Be honest with yourself. Are your results and reasons matching up? If they don't, or you are unsure then ask yourself these questions.

1) Have I voiced my concerns to my instructor?
2) What changes do I feel would fix the problems I perceive in my training?
3) Have I explored other styles/arts and seen if what they are doing is matching with what I believe is missing from my training?
4) If I am unsure, what do I need to do to prove to myself I am getting what I want out of my training?

Again, be honest. If you can't tell your instructor then you really need to concern yourself with why you can't talk freely about your wants/desires/beliefs. If you honestly don't know, then don't be afraid to admit that to yourself either. Maybe you need to go exploring, its ok, aikido will be there for you when you get back.

My personal opinion is that if you want to be good at fighting, aikido is probably not the martial art for you. Its training methods do not lend themselves to learning how to fight. But I'm also not sure that is the point of aikido. I believe that in order to learn how to fight, you have to fight. And fight a lot. Arts like boxing, judo, bjj, mauy thai, etc lend themselves to this. Arts like ninjitsu, aikido, Japanese jiujitsu etc, don't seem to lend themselves to the training you need to learn how to fight. Its more of a personal growth thing. Sure there are martial techniques, and you might very well become a bad ass fighter. But I don't think that is a common occurrence.

Khaled Abdullah wrote: Hi every 1 "Aikido doesn't require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough"

Is it aikido that makes them fat and weak, or is it the lack of respect they have for their bodies? People are fat and weak because they choose not to take care of themselves (or are unable to with growing age, or injury). Sure you cant' expect a 70 year old man to bench 300 pounds and run 10 miles a day. But that doesn't' matter if he is a Judo master, or a aikido shihan. Fat people are just fat people, I'm sure a lot of them are drawn to arts that require them to do as little physical work as possible. And some aikido caters to this.

Khaled Abdullah wrote: " you can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do"

Is your purpose to be a fighter, this should be plenty fine if you only have to defend yourself.

Khaled Abdullah wrote: " many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights"

I hope to god the judo guy didn't say this to you. That would indeed be funny.

Khaled Abdullah wrote: "aikido is a philosophy more than a combat way"

And what is wrong with this?



As an aside. Someone in this thread said these things

"You're training for competition in which there are rules, so you are actually training not to use full force or power when punching and kicking. I hope this doesn't come back to hurt you in a fight when you 'punch' someone and give them a little tap for the 'point'.

I train in something where there is very little competition because it is too dangerous not to know what your opponent is doing...after all, if we killed all our training partners then where would we be?"

I feel these are cop-out responses just as bad as the things he was told (But maybe that was your point). Are you saying Judo guys don't train and spar full force? When I throw you in competition I'm attempting to throw you so hard you cant' get back up. When I punch you, I'm punching you. Sure thats not true of most karate or TKD. But don't think its all tip tap point sparing. A lot of martial arts train full force, very little in unarmed combat is 'too deadly'.

Every art has its strengths and its weakness. I agree with what was said very early in the post that Aikido takes a long time to learn, so ppl diss it because they can`t devote themselves to a big stint or even come to checking it out because they just want a "black belt" status ,something that they will not aquire quickly in Aikido. I would like a poll on how many MA ppl turned to aikido vs how many Aikido ppl turned to alternative arts.

David Yap made the critical point, namely that in Asian martial arts there is something missing: the combatative uses were replaced by discipline-instilling training much like rugby in the British-centric world. Giving an outlet for energy, training for obedience in society, and so forth. But the real part of the arts is kept alive not at public schools but within a small group of experts, and they don't care about all the other thousands doing their physical thing. If you see this pattern, you can start to look for the knowledge that is there but not to be found easily.

Lyn Seisser makes the comment I was thinking of too: spend your time looking for how to stand, how your body works, and try to touch the best teachers to get an idea of what the big fuss is about.

Good luck!

Hi everyone

about all that Khaled wrote. Why don't we make a big fight against all martial art and let them judge about Aikido and another martial arts.

just a suggestion.

Some people waste their time watching television.
Some people waste their time collecting stamps.
...
Some people waste their time practicing aikido.
...
Some people waste their time playing football.
Some people waste their time reading this board.

As long as we have fun.

Dieter Haffner wrote: Some people waste their time watching television. Some people waste their time collecting stamps. ... Some people waste their time practicing aikido. ... Some people waste their time playing football. Some people waste their time reading this board. As long as we have fun.

for those of you below 18 years of age, please seek consent of adult supervison before reading.


Man, more than that. gotta say something - I took aikido abt a month back, been slacking for the past few years. couldn't even handle the first 10 mins of the warm-up. improved a bit since then and I don't know if it's the aikido or the physical aikido exercises or that i'm a bit more relaxed nowadays with my partner but the quality of my sex life has been going great guns. i love staying centered when i'm doing it (sorry if i sound naughty saying it but it's true!), especially at the "end". umm-mmmmm....

sorry if the sexual nature of my message offended anyone but i'm feel a bit more alive and am finding new ways to apply aikido "beyond the dojo". just curious cause there's not a lot of "sex" in aikido articles but i really think aikido helps (heaps!). i love this art(its martial side, physical and philosophical side as well). can't wait for my classes tomorrow. later...

p-s wonder if the aikido historians among you would know if o-sensei had a particular stand on sex?

ksy wrote: Man, more than that. gotta say something - I took aikido abt a month back, been slacking for the past few years. couldn't even handle the first 10 mins of the warm-up. improved a bit since then and I don't know if it's the aikido or the physical aikido exercises or that i'm a bit more relaxed nowadays with my partner but the quality of my sex life has been going great guns.

D@MN! This will make the makers of Viagra (TM) very alarmed!!!

ksy wrote: p-s wonder if the aikido historians among you would know if o-sensei had a particular stand on sex?

I don't think O'sensei was very public about his sex life.

Boon.

Kong Seng Yuan wrote: for those of you below 18 years of age, please seek consent of adult supervison before reading.

<checks license> 41. Ook, I'm safe. Just.

Man, more than that. gotta say something - I took aikido abt a month back, been slacking for the past few years. couldn't even handle the first 10 mins of the warm-up. improved a bit since then and I don't know if it's the aikido or the physical aikido exercises or that i'm a bit more relaxed nowadays with my partner but the quality of my sex life has been going great guns. i love staying centered when i'm doing it (sorry if i sound naughty saying it but it's true!), especially at the "end". umm-mmmmm....

Um, well, I have long considered martial arts training to be serendipitous, that is whatever the reasons you have for starting it, you will, over time get something completely different out of it.

This is the first time I've heard of something like this.

sorry if the sexual nature of my message offended anyone but i'm feel a bit more alive and am finding new ways to apply aikido "beyond the dojo". just curious cause there's not a lot of "sex" in aikido articles but i really think aikido helps (heaps!). i love this art(its martial side, physical and philosophical side as well). can't wait for my classes tomorrow. later...

Uh, good for you. But I think we can do without any posts to the gallery.

p-s wonder if the aikido historians among you would know if o-sensei had a particular stand on sex?

John Stevens' The Secrets of Aikido has a chapter that refers to the "sacred union of male and female." I'm not sure if your, um, situation is what that refers to, though.

Kong Seng Yuan wrote: i love staying centered when i'm doing it (sorry if i sound naughty saying it but it's true!), especially at the "end". umm-mmmmm....

i don't follow. please describe in much more detail.

I agree that one should not waste your time practicing AIKIDO.
Time is a valuable nonrefundable commodity. When you are practicing Aikido, don't waste your time, keep moving, practice.

Luc Saroufim wrote: i don't follow. please describe in much more detail.

not sure if ther's anything to describe. just like how people focus and center in a dojo (like breathing into imaginery point below the navel), i try to reach the same psychological level in the bedroom. Imaginery or not, when i let the pressure of the head and shoulders flow into that point, i feel a lot more "connected" to my partner, although from a physical viewpoint nothing has changed.

not much that i can explain as i'm pretty new. but from a newbie's point of view - i've read in these threads about how akido has helped people reaalign their thoughts, deal with social problems, gave their life a new dimension, clearer focus etc but i've never heard anyone say it's improved the quality of their sex life. well, yes, i think it does.

It could be a combo of everything that has brought me to this position. I used to be an angry/moody person and I notice that i get angry a lot less these days. Not sure how long this calm will last but i hope it will. Right now, i'm trying to do more than practice aikido in the training hall. slowly, i'm trying to treat other areas of my life as a "dojo" so i can do aikido wherever i am. cheers!

Khaled Abdullah wrote: Is aikido useful and effective in real situation and against other martial arts?

i don't know.
i only know that i can't stop doing it!

Kong Seng Yuan wrote: p-s wonder if the aikido historians among you would know if o-sensei had a particular stand on sex?

O-Sensei was a man.

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
Kong Seng Yuan wrote:
p-s wonder if the aikido historians among you would know if o-sensei had a particular stand on sex?

Ricky Wood wrote: O-Sensei was a man.

i know these 2 uncles. both of them have very differing attitudes towards women. If you have a point, it'll be nice if you could share.

I believe that studying Aikido is a requirement for Tokyo police officers......enough said.


In Good Practice...

Jim

www.nothing-works.com