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Khaled 01-22-2005 06:44 AM

Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Hi every 1
Actually the title is an advice from some martial artists who I meet weekly in our dojo. We have many different martial arts sessions going every day in that dojo like karate, taekwando, judo, jeet kune do and kung fu (wing chun). we always talk about martial arts and their effectiveness in real situations like street fighting.

They almost made me desperate and disappointed of Aikido.
Here are some of their quotations:
“Aikido doesn’t require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough”
“ you can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do”
“ many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights”
“ aikido focuses on hands to applying its techniques and ignores the rest of the body, no kicks no punches no jumping”
“ aikido is only good for seminars and demonstrations”
“ aikido is too traditional, no body use sword in our world today”
“ aikido is a philosophy more than a combat way”
etc……

I didn’t lose my faith in aikido, but between u and me aren’t they have right in some thoughts???

Is aikido useful and effective in real situation and against other martial arts?

mj 01-22-2005 07:16 AM

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Well...
Quote:

Khaled Abdullah wrote:
"Aikido doesn't require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough"
(who is going to pick a fight with an old, weak, fat guy?)

" you can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do"
(rubbish)

" many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights"
(grabbing happens in every fight)

" aikido focuses on hands to applying its techniques and ignores the rest of the body, no kicks no punches no jumping"
(shomen-ate)

" aikido is only good for seminars and demonstrations"
(it's also good for opening doors and avoiding charging animals)

" aikido is too traditional, no body use sword in our world today"
(are these guys in Saudi Arabia?...aren't they always chopping each others heads off with swords?)

" aikido is a philosophy more than a combat way"
(duh)

Each to his own. Anyone caught dissing other arts will be shot at dawn.

dan guthrie 01-22-2005 07:18 AM

Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
One of my senseis is a guard at a hospital for some of the people too crazy and violent for prison. I'm going to talk to him about posting here.
About a month ago he asked one of the students who's studied Tang Soo Do to spar using high kicks. One of the "inmates" has gone off his medicine and that's his preferred method of attack, he's kicked other inmates. He took some punishment on his arm ( it wasn't full speed) but I think it shows some definite promise that would translate into any real attack.
One of the Ultimate Fighting Champions, Chuck Liddel (sp?) has a dojo 15 miles away from ours and there's a kick boxing dojo 2 miles closer to this senseis house.
Sensei has a choice and he chose Aikido.
I'm not saying one art is better than another but I do think Aikido is effective and compassionate.

David Yap 01-22-2005 07:25 AM

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Hi Khaled,

Honestly, Khaled, that's a tough question to answer. It is all about perception. I started doing karate when I was 14 years old, aikido when I was 36 and this is 12th year in aikido. I have been always been active in karate and only given up teaching 2 years ago: I wasn't convinced that my chief instructor had gained enlightenment to re-invent karate his way.

A hundred years ago karate was a complete art meaning it had grappling, throws and ground fighting beside the hand strikes and kicks but all that changed after the art was introduced into the public school system - it was "water-downed" to make it safe for school children (same for TKD which was a Korean re-invention of JKA style karate). 34 years ago, I thought I have picked the complete art but the only thing missing is a "complete" teacher.

So who are these "martial artists" who only trained in one art?

Peace be with you.

David Y

jss 01-22-2005 10:06 AM

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Quote:

Khaled Abdullah wrote:
Here are some of their quotations:
"Aikido doesn't require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough"

That's nothing more than an observation. It's astonishing how a certain intonation can make an observation sound like criticism. And I like that the fact that a lot of of the (important) aikido players are old, fat and not that strong: it means that aikido is the best martial art: you do not need to be athletic to be any good at it. :-) (And you can still practice when you're old, which is nice as well.)

Quote:

" ou can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do"
As stated above, untrue. Firstly you can use aikido offensively, it is just not practiced that way. Secondly, ultimately (when you're old and fat) you learn how to make the attacker attack you in the way you want him/her to. Very simple example of the opposite: when training a wrist grab, I often have to explain to beginners that if they stand with their feet next to each other and their hands by their side, I will not grab their wrist, but rather kick them or puch them.

Quote:

" many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights"
Techniques are often trained in reaction to grabbing, but that's because it's easier to learn. And after reading some threads on this: it seems to depend on what kind of fgiht you're in, whether there'll be any grabbing. There's a big difference between fighting, for example, an experienced street figher and a drunk friend who claims you cheated while playing scrabble with him.

Quote:

" aikido focuses on hands to applying its techniques and ignores the rest of the body, no kicks no punches no jumping"
I have yet failed to step out of the line of attack using only my hands, but I'll keep trying. (Also have I not yet succeeded in punching without the use of my hands, but I suspect that only a truely enligyhtened person will be able to grasp this.)

Quote:

" aikido is only good for seminars and demonstrations"
It's excellent for those! And for training! They're all three a lot of fun.
Question: Only good for seminars and demonstrations as opposed to ...? (It's good to know that the people you spoke know their rhetoircal trics.) Probably as opposed to fighting, but fighting is such a broad concept (see above) ...

Quote:

" aikido is too traditional, no body use sword in our world today"
I don not believe any aikidoka claims that we train with the bokken for practical purposes.

Quote:

" aikido is a philosophy more than a combat way"
How can you tell? Are there quota we can use to measure this?
And as a philosopher I must say that the difference between an aikido training and a philosophy class is quite large.

Quote:

Is aikido useful and effective in real situation and against other martial arts?
I've never seen aikido fight against something or someone, so I wouldn't know.

andylucas 01-22-2005 10:15 AM

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
opinions are like what?

mikeg 01-22-2005 10:20 AM

Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
I often read stories like this, but the experienced, non-aikido martial artists whom I know personally all have a lot of respect for aikido. These are people in their thirties or forties who have trained in things like escrima or shotokan karate. They generally think that it takes a very long time to learn aikido, but they share wide-eyed stories of expert aikido feats.

Qatana 01-22-2005 10:23 AM

Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Khaled

I think from your other post, about aikido being a girl, that you already Chose aikido, you already have a love and beginning understanding of the art.
People always put down what they don't unserstand or fear, I do it all the time!
You should follow the path that means something to You, not the guys in the class after yours at the dojo.You don't have to live with them, and you do have to live with yourself.

Kevin Leavitt 01-22-2005 11:51 AM

Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
I disagree with every single generalization that was made. You can be fat, but it is not advisable. I can find fat practioners in every art. Other than that, I won't do a point by point counter!

Agree with Jo's statement above!

thomas_dixon 01-22-2005 12:15 PM

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Quote:

Mike Gallo wrote:
I often read stories like this, but the experienced, non-aikido martial artists whom I know personally all have a lot of respect for aikido. These are people in their thirties or forties who have trained in things like escrima or shotokan karate. They generally think that it takes a very long time to learn aikido, but they share wide-eyed stories of expert aikido feats.

Kalista and Escrimador like to flow :cool:

Sue Hammerich 01-22-2005 02:14 PM

Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Those are good questions. I commend you for your desire to learn, and for your courage expressed in your inquiry. What your fellow martial artists feel about Aikido and their respective art is probably the truth - for THEM. That sounds like a cop-out, I know. But everyone's opinion of anything is filtered through his or her own experience. For instance, different tonal structure has created different types of music in the world. What sounds like cacophony to someone from one part of the world is enjoyable to another. Words that are gibberish to one person is a common language to someone else. Are any of these opinions wrong? No, unless there is a judgment attached.
I commend you on your desire to find your own path in martial arts; I presume that corresponds to your seeking your own path in life. Keep questioning, do the right thing, and peace to you and yours
Have a great week!
Sue

giriasis 01-22-2005 03:58 PM

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Khaled,

I'm going to agree with the many others here. Please do not allow the negative words of others from discouraging you from pursuing your own martial path. Be proud of your choice of aikido. It is as valid and worthy as any other martial art. They only demean it because they do not have the knowledge or understanding of being an aikido practitioner. Enter "irimi" and invite them to train with you and learn aikido for themselves. "Tenkan" and tell them that you understand their questions but that you find that there is more to aikido than there appears to be from first glance.

TheWonderKid 01-22-2005 06:51 PM

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
The thing I find funny about people criticizing Aikido because of less punches and kicks (which are in fact incorporated in the techniques in our dojo) is that if your Aikido is good, they only get to throw one punch.

They throw a punch to your abs, you slip into a Tsuki Kotogeshi (dunno if that's spelled correctly) and they end up flat on their face with their thumb pointing towards the back of their head.

Seems effective enough to me.

Rupert Atkinson 01-22-2005 07:17 PM

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Quote:

Khaled Abdullah wrote:
Hi every 1
Actually the title is an advice from some martial artists who I meet weekly in our dojo.

While the experience of others is valid, whatever you think, it is best to 'think' it from your own experience.

Martin Ruedas 01-23-2005 05:52 AM

Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
I think those opinions are very shallow, if they were needles, they would'nt even penetrate the rubber if Aikido were a balloon.

Chad Scott 01-23-2005 06:38 AM

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
My brother-in-law is a police officer, and he uses his aikido skills more often than his tae kwon do skills when he is on the job. He said aikido is more practical in real-life situations than tae kwon do. He has studied both.

neb1979 01-23-2005 07:52 AM

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Hi Khaled

I have only been studding Aikido for about four months now and have read allot on Aikido, I have also trained in alto of other Arts and do understand were these people are coming from because I used to be one of them. What I believe these people are not realizing is that Aikido isn't just about punching and kicking and all the other physical stuff its about not being in a situation in the first place and if you do have no other choice, to deal with it with as little or no injury to the other person and yourself. I really don't think that these peoples minds are very open? I work security and one night I had this biky throw a hay maker at me with my back to him, this was about two months into training, I actually sensed him coming before he made contact with my head so I was able to maneuver myself so the punched missed, this is what I mean by Aikido isn't just about punching and kicking its about not being in the situation in the first place. After the punched missed I stepped away and got the police to remove him as It would have been difficult for myself to do. That is Aikido. I hope this has been of some benefit to you Khaled keep training all the best. :)

Tim Gerrard 01-23-2005 02:34 PM

Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Should invite him to a class, let him see for himself.

skyetide 01-23-2005 04:17 PM

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Aikido is nice because it gives us the option of diffusing situations with compassion....and not necessarily having to do major damage.

I don't think that one martial art is superior over another...rather you should find the one that is best for you in this time of your life. I would suggest to choose the style that you are drawn to the most and don't worry what others say.

I studied TKD for seven years when I was younger. It was good for me at that time. Now I have found Aikido. For "real
life" situations that I would likely be in as a school teacher, Aikido is the best path for me now. I would like to be able to subdue a violent student without doing damage to them. This is not to mention the non-violent situations in which I try to use Aikido philosophy just to get through my day.

Best wishes in finding your path, Kahled.

eyrie 01-23-2005 07:35 PM

Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
You've made your choice to do aikido. So why waste your time proving or disproving aikido's effectiveness? Simply agree with them and admit that aikido is absolutely useless in a street fight. Ask for a demonstration of their prowess (not on you of course), and look for every opening in their attack and defence. Then thank them for their impressive display of martial effectiveness and say you are too much of a sissy to take such hard punishment and that you'll stick with a sissy sport like aikido instead. And walk away.

The most frustrating thing for people like this is if you don't play their game.

maikerus 01-23-2005 09:56 PM

Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
You can always reply with the argument:

"You're training for competition in which there are rules, so you are actually training not to use full force or power when punching and kicking. I hope this doesn't come back to hurt you in a fight when you 'punch' someone and give them a little tap for the 'point'.

I train in something where there is very little competition because it is too dangerous not to know what your opponent is doing...after all, if we killed all our training partners then where would we be?"

...or you could just smile because you know something they don't and let them keep shoving square pegs into round holes.

--Michael

Bridge 01-24-2005 01:53 AM

Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
May i point out. Aikidoists have been the MOST open minded of ALL martial arts collectives I have ever met. And I've hopped between quite a few styles too.

xuzen 01-24-2005 02:52 AM

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Dear Khaled,

I am so sorry your dojo mate / friends look down on aikido. Over at my place we don't have any problem... that is the ill reputation of aikido in general. Hmmm, I wonder if the fact that Yoshinkan style has anything to do with it? One can only guess.

Quote:

They almost made me desperate and disappointed of Aikido. Here are some of their quotations:
"Aikido doesn't require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough"
Ask those non believer to do randori/jiyu waza with your sempai/senior brethens for 5 minutes under full attack mode, no holding back. If they are not out-of-breath, out of sync and out of focus, then I will say that they are super-fit.

Quote:

you can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do"
Why can't we attack? If in randori/jiyu waza the uke's are not attacking, I will charge at them. The key is to get them to response in the manner where you can then perform the prescribed technique. So pre-emptive strike are quite common in my randori.

Quote:

" many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights"
Nah, there are also techniques to counter strikes. Yokomenuchi, Shomenuchi, Munetuski... etc. What aikido are you learning BTW? No strikes, only grab? There are also technique to counter beer bottle to the head, baseball bat to the side etc.

I will continue this thread further tomorrow. Alas... the evil dictator called Mr Work is calling me. <sigh>

Boon.

Peter Seth 01-24-2005 06:13 AM

Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Hi E1.
Well! Let me say apart from being 'bad form' to offer opinions on other arts, it is extremely ignorant if you know nothing about them? I have been involved in martial arts for 0ver 40 years and ALL arts are good in there individual way. I chose Aikido as my 'life art' for many reasons, its philosophy (I am not Naive before anyone says it) its all about how you yourself want to live your life - I find violence to be a bit of a bore, a negative thing in most cases. But, (being oldish but not too fat) I can if required delve very very deeply (and subtley) into violence.
Luckily due to aikido It has not been called upon too often.
Aikido in my view is an excellent vehicle in which can be included any aspects of any other martial art if required (usually as a back up for a mistiming). It can be gentle at one end, and in a split second, lethal at the other.
So do not be disheartened, These macho comments mean nothing to a 'thinking' person.
Pete.

PS: In fact aikido's potential frightens me sometimes.

justinm 01-24-2005 07:07 AM

Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO
 
Quote:

Khaled Abdullah wrote:
Hi every 1
Actually the title is an advice from some martial artists who I meet weekly in our dojo. We have many different martial arts sessions going every day in that dojo like karate, taekwando, judo, jeet kune do and kung fu (wing chun). we always talk about martial arts and their effectiveness in real situations like street fighting.

They almost made me desperate and disappointed of Aikido.
Here are some of their quotations:
"Aikido doesn't require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough"
" you can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do"
" many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights"
" aikido focuses on hands to applying its techniques and ignores the rest of the body, no kicks no punches no jumping"
" aikido is only good for seminars and demonstrations"
" aikido is too traditional, no body use sword in our world today"
" aikido is a philosophy more than a combat way"
etc……

I didn't lose my faith in aikido, but between u and me aren't they have right in some thoughts????

Possibly.
Quote:

Khaled Abdullah wrote:
Is aikido useful and effective in real situation and against other martial arts?

Possibly.

Are you enjoying it? Then go and train. :)

Justin


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