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09-25-2011, 02:24 PM
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#26
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
Graham. If you want, I will pay for your subscription to Aikido Journal, but only if you will commit to reading the interviews with all of Ueshiba's prewar Deshi as a start. Or I will send you the book. Whether or not you chose to move on to the founder himself is up to you. Your information seems seriously flawed and may be skewed from a too narrow perspective. I think this will help elevate the discussion. We can still agree or disagree but I think it will at least broaden your perspective. I have had friends of mine in the Chinese community do the same for me, as I was researching. Knowledge and information is power.
Consider this, if the history of your founder matters, then, I think it will help you in conversing here with more well informed people, and give you a better understanding of the art, where Ueshiba got his information and Doka from and how it all fits into a bigger picture.
Would you like a Subscription to AJ? I will email Stan tonight for you.
Dan
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Unfortunately first I must refer you to the following.
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...5&postcount=51
Regards.G,
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09-25-2011, 02:42 PM
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#27
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
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Re: Spiritual Power
I understand.
I think it might be a step forward. I am a very reasonable person. To be frank, I found it almost impossible to talk to you about certain issues-not because of a difference of opinion, they happen here all the time, but rather of certain inconsistencies in your argument, and when you joined in with Tony with the insults and sarcasm, I wrote you off.
I stridently disagree with you on some things, but I have wondered what you might think with exposure to greater material, and maybe even eventually a meeting.
What do I do and where do I go Graham? I am with Aikido teachers in their dojos all over and it almost always turns out very well.
Hey, at least know this, it's a sincere offer. I gain nothing from it. I honestly think you need to research a bit more to see what many of us are talking about and where Ueshiba's ideas came from. Not the least of which will be you seeing where many of his doka come from Chinese material. No one would be more delighted than I to be able to have more informed discussions later. Many of us have formed different views on things and we agree/ disagree on issues. At the very least, while it might not change your views I think you will at least have much a more informed view and solidify why you think that way.
To add a touch of humor, I am either arming the enemy or making a truce. I bet on the later. I know from experience both here and in person that it is always better to think the best and try to extend a hand...even when it has been bitten off in the past, I usually manage to build a bridge in person.
Dan
Last edited by DH : 09-25-2011 at 02:53 PM.
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09-25-2011, 05:00 PM
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#28
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
I find it my duty to publicly say that Dan and I have been in touch via pm. As it was he who publicly offered a hand of friendship I can only say that with honour and respect I accept.
May our communications with each other be better in the future.
In Humility.G.
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09-25-2011, 05:25 PM
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#29
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Very nice! This peanut in the gallery would just like to say I think this is a great example of spiritual power; a great example of building meaningful connection; the sword that "cuts together."
Respect to you both.
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Gambarimashyo!
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09-25-2011, 08:50 PM
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#30
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Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
I find it my duty to publicly say that Dan and I have been in touch via pm. As it was he who publicly offered a hand of friendship I can only say that with honour and respect I accept.
May our communications with each other be better in the future.
In Humility.G.
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WOW! - you got a private email form Dan - congratulations! that is a rare cosmic occurrence
(ps: a private joke folks to Dan - nothing to do with Graham - don't read anything into it )
Greg
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09-26-2011, 01:20 AM
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#31
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Dojo: Makato/Netherlands
Location: Netherlands - Leusden
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 463
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Nice!
Graham, I am curious though what has changed on your side. What I read in to your comments is you trying to have an open mind?
Dan, muchos respect. A good teacher is exemplary is his ways...
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In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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09-26-2011, 03:04 PM
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#32
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Tim Ruijs wrote:
Nice!
Graham, I am curious though what has changed on your side. What I read in to your comments is you trying to have an open mind?
Dan, muchos respect. A good teacher is exemplary is his ways...
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Ha, ha. You're not a cat by any chance are you Tim?
Regards.G.
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09-26-2011, 09:30 PM
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#33
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Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Boston
Location: Peterborough, NH
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 653
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
If it's gonna be all sweetness and light around here, I need a barf bag. What next? Dan and Mike playing kissy-face in the park?
Good on you guys.
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09-26-2011, 10:47 PM
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#34
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Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Must be time for a ki war :-)
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Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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09-26-2011, 10:54 PM
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#35
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
Must be time for a ki war :-)
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No thanks. Kind of calm isn't it?
I was just enjoying reading your signature line.
"Peace will enter when hate is gone".....Percy Mayfield
All the best
Dan
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09-26-2011, 11:55 PM
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#36
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Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
No thanks. Kind of calm isn't it?
I was just enjoying reading your signature line.
"Peace will enter when hate is gone".....Percy Mayfield
All the best
Dan
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Percy Mayfield, the Poet of the Blues... :-)
Still hoping to catch up with you maybe early next year if the budget permits any traveling (wondering if Jet Blue will start flying between SF and Seattle?)
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Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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09-26-2011, 11:57 PM
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#37
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Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
Percy Mayfield, the Poet of the Blues... :-)
Still hoping to catch up with you maybe early next year if the budget permits any traveling (wondering if Jet Blue will start flying between SF and Seattle?)
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Oh shit. Just realized on the heels of you springing for Graham's sub to AJ this could be (mis)construed as a ploy or plea!!! Totally not!
Last edited by Janet Rosen : 09-26-2011 at 11:58 PM.
Reason: Spelling
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Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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09-27-2011, 01:21 AM
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#38
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Dojo: Makato/Netherlands
Location: Netherlands - Leusden
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 463
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
meow! kitty got sharp claws...
Well, it raises questions when two parties both with firm ideas on what's what are at first head to head (nearly on non speaking terms) and then put their hands together and can see eye to eye. I thinks it is admirable. So I hope to live another day when being curious to the common ground.
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In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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09-27-2011, 01:48 AM
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#39
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,318
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
So much discussion on power I thought I'd give another perspective.
As I see it following the desire for power and more power is a fools errand as far as Aikido is concerned. As I see it I see people debating and believing they are achieving something yet to me no matter how much they try to justify this search they are unaware they are merely standing still or even going backwards.
Can anyone describe what power is spiritually?
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A waterfall has no "desire for power and more power." Yet it is, undeniably, powerful. Similarly, that place at the meeting of heaven and earth, that place where the Harmony of the Universe is realized...there is great power at that place where O Sensei stood.
Whether you seek power or not, you'll find it if you go far enough down the path. If you don't, maybe you're on the wrong path.
Katherine
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09-27-2011, 02:37 AM
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#40
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Dojo: Makato/Netherlands
Location: Netherlands - Leusden
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 463
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
A waterfall has no intend at all. It just is. It moves according to the natural laws (gravity, friction, collision, etc).
In a conflict situation I can justify this approach (i.e. be without intend) to balance out, create common ground and hopefully resolve the situation. But in normal situations...I am not so sure.
Spiritual power is joy, determination, self reflection/awareness (also see recent column als Lynn Seiser) and compassion.
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In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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09-27-2011, 04:52 AM
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#41
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote:
A waterfall has no "desire for power and more power." Yet it is, undeniably, powerful. Similarly, that place at the meeting of heaven and earth, that place where the Harmony of the Universe is realized...there is great power at that place where O Sensei stood.
Whether you seek power or not, you'll find it if you go far enough down the path. If you don't, maybe you're on the wrong path.
Katherine
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Do you think so? Using the waterfall as having no desire for power agrees with what I say.
If a waterfall desired more power it would be self defeating.
Is it undeniably powerful? It sounds to me you seek such alas.
There is no power and there is no superiority. In my view those who seek such are off the path unfortunately.
Regards.G.
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09-27-2011, 04:59 AM
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#42
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Tim Ruijs wrote:
meow! kitty got sharp claws...
Well, it raises questions when two parties both with firm ideas on what's what are at first head to head (nearly on non speaking terms) and then put their hands together and can see eye to eye. I thinks it is admirable. So I hope to live another day when being curious to the common ground.
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A good Aikido lesson for you Tim. It shows that conflict and fighting is merely an illusion.
Regards.G.
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09-27-2011, 07:28 AM
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#43
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Dojo: Makato/Netherlands
Location: Netherlands - Leusden
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 463
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Graham,
Still, I am glad to witness this fruitful continuation. I must say I feel the lesson was more applicable to you both than me. I am just too curious
...water under the bridge (from unpretentious waterfall that just playfully reflects the sunshine...).
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In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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09-27-2011, 08:50 AM
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#44
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Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,944
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
A good Aikido lesson for you Tim. It shows that conflict and fighting is merely an illusion.
Regards.G.
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an illusion that really hurts when the other bugger's strike connected to your body.
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09-27-2011, 08:51 AM
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#45
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,318
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
Do you think so? Using the waterfall as having no desire for power agrees with what I say.
If a waterfall desired more power it would be self defeating.
Is it undeniably powerful? It sounds to me you seek such alas.
There is no power and there is no superiority. In my view those who seek such are off the path unfortunately.
Regards.G.
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Missing my point. Why am I not surprised...
If you study waterfalls, you will become acquainted with power, whether power is your reason for studying them or not. Likewise with aiki.
Of course, I guess I'm making a brash assumption that those who study aikido are in fact interested in understanding aiki. But if you're not, maybe you should call your art something else.
Katherine
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09-27-2011, 09:22 AM
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#46
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 95
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
"an illusion that really hurts"
There was a faith healer from Deal
who said, "Although pain isn't real,
when I sit on a pin
and it punctures my skin,
I dislike what I fancy I feel
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09-27-2011, 09:29 AM
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#47
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote:
Missing my point. Why am I not surprised...
If you study waterfalls, you will become acquainted with power, whether power is your reason for studying them or not. Likewise with aiki.
Of course, I guess I'm making a brash assumption that those who study aikido are in fact interested in understanding aiki. But if you're not, maybe you should call your art something else.
Katherine
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Mmm. No comment.
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09-27-2011, 09:32 AM
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#48
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Phi Truong wrote:
an illusion that really hurts when the other bugger's strike connected to your body.
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Yep, it definitely does. That illusion is quite real.
Regards.G.
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09-27-2011, 09:34 AM
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#49
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Tim Ruijs wrote:
Graham,
Still, I am glad to witness this fruitful continuation. I must say I feel the lesson was more applicable to you both than me. I am just too curious
...water under the bridge (from unpretentious waterfall that just playfully reflects the sunshine...).
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Thank you. (nice brackets)
Regards.G.
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09-27-2011, 09:40 AM
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#50
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Spiritual Power
Quote:
Patrick Hutchinson wrote:
"an illusion that really hurts"
There was a faith healer from Deal
who said, "Although pain isn't real,
when I sit on a pin
and it punctures my skin,
I dislike what I fancy I feel
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Hey, your rhyming in my time,
But your rhyme well it aint worth a dime;
Cos illusion is real,
So when it hits you you feel,
The need for Aikido is prime.
Regards.G.
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