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Old 09-25-2011, 02:24 PM   #26
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Graham. If you want, I will pay for your subscription to Aikido Journal, but only if you will commit to reading the interviews with all of Ueshiba's prewar Deshi as a start. Or I will send you the book. Whether or not you chose to move on to the founder himself is up to you. Your information seems seriously flawed and may be skewed from a too narrow perspective. I think this will help elevate the discussion. We can still agree or disagree but I think it will at least broaden your perspective. I have had friends of mine in the Chinese community do the same for me, as I was researching. Knowledge and information is power.

Consider this, if the history of your founder matters, then, I think it will help you in conversing here with more well informed people, and give you a better understanding of the art, where Ueshiba got his information and Doka from and how it all fits into a bigger picture.
Would you like a Subscription to AJ? I will email Stan tonight for you.
Dan
Unfortunately first I must refer you to the following.

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...5&postcount=51

Regards.G,
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:42 PM   #27
DH
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Re: Spiritual Power

I understand.
I think it might be a step forward. I am a very reasonable person. To be frank, I found it almost impossible to talk to you about certain issues-not because of a difference of opinion, they happen here all the time, but rather of certain inconsistencies in your argument, and when you joined in with Tony with the insults and sarcasm, I wrote you off.
I stridently disagree with you on some things, but I have wondered what you might think with exposure to greater material, and maybe even eventually a meeting.
What do I do and where do I go Graham? I am with Aikido teachers in their dojos all over and it almost always turns out very well.
Hey, at least know this, it's a sincere offer. I gain nothing from it. I honestly think you need to research a bit more to see what many of us are talking about and where Ueshiba's ideas came from. Not the least of which will be you seeing where many of his doka come from Chinese material. No one would be more delighted than I to be able to have more informed discussions later. Many of us have formed different views on things and we agree/ disagree on issues. At the very least, while it might not change your views I think you will at least have much a more informed view and solidify why you think that way.
To add a touch of humor, I am either arming the enemy or making a truce. I bet on the later. I know from experience both here and in person that it is always better to think the best and try to extend a hand...even when it has been bitten off in the past, I usually manage to build a bridge in person.

Dan

Last edited by DH : 09-25-2011 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:00 PM   #28
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual Power

I find it my duty to publicly say that Dan and I have been in touch via pm. As it was he who publicly offered a hand of friendship I can only say that with honour and respect I accept.

May our communications with each other be better in the future.

In Humility.G.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:25 PM   #29
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Spiritual Power

Very nice! This peanut in the gallery would just like to say I think this is a great example of spiritual power; a great example of building meaningful connection; the sword that "cuts together."
Respect to you both.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:50 PM   #30
gregstec
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
I find it my duty to publicly say that Dan and I have been in touch via pm. As it was he who publicly offered a hand of friendship I can only say that with honour and respect I accept.

May our communications with each other be better in the future.

In Humility.G.
WOW! - you got a private email form Dan - congratulations! that is a rare cosmic occurrence

(ps: a private joke folks to Dan - nothing to do with Graham - don't read anything into it )

Greg
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:20 AM   #31
Tim Ruijs
 
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Re: Spiritual Power

Nice!

Graham, I am curious though what has changed on your side. What I read in to your comments is you trying to have an open mind?

Dan, muchos respect. A good teacher is exemplary is his ways...

In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:04 PM   #32
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Tim Ruijs wrote: View Post
Nice!

Graham, I am curious though what has changed on your side. What I read in to your comments is you trying to have an open mind?

Dan, muchos respect. A good teacher is exemplary is his ways...
Ha, ha. You're not a cat by any chance are you Tim?

Regards.G.
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:30 PM   #33
hughrbeyer
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Re: Spiritual Power

If it's gonna be all sweetness and light around here, I need a barf bag. What next? Dan and Mike playing kissy-face in the park?

Good on you guys.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:47 PM   #34
Janet Rosen
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Re: Spiritual Power

Must be time for a ki war :-)

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:54 PM   #35
DH
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Must be time for a ki war :-)
No thanks. Kind of calm isn't it?
I was just enjoying reading your signature line.
"Peace will enter when hate is gone".....Percy Mayfield

All the best
Dan
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Old 09-26-2011, 11:55 PM   #36
Janet Rosen
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
No thanks. Kind of calm isn't it?
I was just enjoying reading your signature line.
"Peace will enter when hate is gone".....Percy Mayfield

All the best
Dan
Percy Mayfield, the Poet of the Blues... :-)
Still hoping to catch up with you maybe early next year if the budget permits any traveling (wondering if Jet Blue will start flying between SF and Seattle?)

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 09-26-2011, 11:57 PM   #37
Janet Rosen
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Percy Mayfield, the Poet of the Blues... :-)
Still hoping to catch up with you maybe early next year if the budget permits any traveling (wondering if Jet Blue will start flying between SF and Seattle?)
Oh shit. Just realized on the heels of you springing for Graham's sub to AJ this could be (mis)construed as a ploy or plea!!! Totally not!

Last edited by Janet Rosen : 09-26-2011 at 11:58 PM. Reason: Spelling

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:21 AM   #38
Tim Ruijs
 
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Re: Spiritual Power

meow! kitty got sharp claws...

Well, it raises questions when two parties both with firm ideas on what's what are at first head to head (nearly on non speaking terms) and then put their hands together and can see eye to eye. I thinks it is admirable. So I hope to live another day when being curious to the common ground.

In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:48 AM   #39
kewms
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
So much discussion on power I thought I'd give another perspective.

As I see it following the desire for power and more power is a fools errand as far as Aikido is concerned. As I see it I see people debating and believing they are achieving something yet to me no matter how much they try to justify this search they are unaware they are merely standing still or even going backwards.

Can anyone describe what power is spiritually?
A waterfall has no "desire for power and more power." Yet it is, undeniably, powerful. Similarly, that place at the meeting of heaven and earth, that place where the Harmony of the Universe is realized...there is great power at that place where O Sensei stood.

Whether you seek power or not, you'll find it if you go far enough down the path. If you don't, maybe you're on the wrong path.

Katherine
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:37 AM   #40
Tim Ruijs
 
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Re: Spiritual Power

A waterfall has no intend at all. It just is. It moves according to the natural laws (gravity, friction, collision, etc).

In a conflict situation I can justify this approach (i.e. be without intend) to balance out, create common ground and hopefully resolve the situation. But in normal situations...I am not so sure.

Spiritual power is joy, determination, self reflection/awareness (also see recent column als Lynn Seiser) and compassion.

In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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Old 09-27-2011, 04:52 AM   #41
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
A waterfall has no "desire for power and more power." Yet it is, undeniably, powerful. Similarly, that place at the meeting of heaven and earth, that place where the Harmony of the Universe is realized...there is great power at that place where O Sensei stood.

Whether you seek power or not, you'll find it if you go far enough down the path. If you don't, maybe you're on the wrong path.

Katherine
Do you think so? Using the waterfall as having no desire for power agrees with what I say.

If a waterfall desired more power it would be self defeating.

Is it undeniably powerful? It sounds to me you seek such alas.

There is no power and there is no superiority. In my view those who seek such are off the path unfortunately.

Regards.G.
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Old 09-27-2011, 04:59 AM   #42
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Tim Ruijs wrote: View Post
meow! kitty got sharp claws...

Well, it raises questions when two parties both with firm ideas on what's what are at first head to head (nearly on non speaking terms) and then put their hands together and can see eye to eye. I thinks it is admirable. So I hope to live another day when being curious to the common ground.
A good Aikido lesson for you Tim. It shows that conflict and fighting is merely an illusion.

Regards.G.
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:28 AM   #43
Tim Ruijs
 
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Re: Spiritual Power

Graham,

Still, I am glad to witness this fruitful continuation. I must say I feel the lesson was more applicable to you both than me. I am just too curious
...water under the bridge (from unpretentious waterfall that just playfully reflects the sunshine...).

In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:50 AM   #44
phitruong
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
A good Aikido lesson for you Tim. It shows that conflict and fighting is merely an illusion.

Regards.G.
an illusion that really hurts when the other bugger's strike connected to your body.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:51 AM   #45
kewms
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Do you think so? Using the waterfall as having no desire for power agrees with what I say.

If a waterfall desired more power it would be self defeating.

Is it undeniably powerful? It sounds to me you seek such alas.

There is no power and there is no superiority. In my view those who seek such are off the path unfortunately.

Regards.G.
Missing my point. Why am I not surprised...

If you study waterfalls, you will become acquainted with power, whether power is your reason for studying them or not. Likewise with aiki.

Of course, I guess I'm making a brash assumption that those who study aikido are in fact interested in understanding aiki. But if you're not, maybe you should call your art something else.

Katherine
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:22 AM   #46
Patrick Hutchinson
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Re: Spiritual Power

"an illusion that really hurts"

There was a faith healer from Deal
who said, "Although pain isn't real,
when I sit on a pin
and it punctures my skin,
I dislike what I fancy I feel
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:29 AM   #47
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
Missing my point. Why am I not surprised...

If you study waterfalls, you will become acquainted with power, whether power is your reason for studying them or not. Likewise with aiki.

Of course, I guess I'm making a brash assumption that those who study aikido are in fact interested in understanding aiki. But if you're not, maybe you should call your art something else.

Katherine
Mmm. No comment.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:32 AM   #48
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
an illusion that really hurts when the other bugger's strike connected to your body.
Yep, it definitely does. That illusion is quite real.

Regards.G.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:34 AM   #49
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Tim Ruijs wrote: View Post
Graham,

Still, I am glad to witness this fruitful continuation. I must say I feel the lesson was more applicable to you both than me. I am just too curious
...water under the bridge (from unpretentious waterfall that just playfully reflects the sunshine...).
Thank you. (nice brackets)

Regards.G.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:40 AM   #50
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual Power

Quote:
Patrick Hutchinson wrote: View Post
"an illusion that really hurts"

There was a faith healer from Deal
who said, "Although pain isn't real,
when I sit on a pin
and it punctures my skin,
I dislike what I fancy I feel
Hey, your rhyming in my time,
But your rhyme well it aint worth a dime;
Cos illusion is real,
So when it hits you you feel,
The need for Aikido is prime.

Regards.G.
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