Where Does The Power come from?

The posts about "an instructor in Tokyo throwing people with his pinky" have been moved to the below thread:

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8751

-- Jun

Chuck Kuske wrote: The hip is nothing without the ground. Some people call this 'base'.

Flying/jumping kicks?

Out of curiosity, how many people here actually kick or punch a kick/punch bag on a frequent and regular basis?

Alex Lawrence wrote: Flying/jumping kicks?

Gotta push off of something! ;-)

Perhaps cars are powered by their weels.

Alex Lawrence wrote: Perhaps cars are powered by their weels.

I've never heard of a "weel" before! I always thought cars were powered by the expansive force of rapid oxydation!

Matthew Gano wrote: I've never heard of a "weel" before! I always thought cars were powered by the expansive force of rapid oxydation!

Nope cars are powered by gas much like me (or so my son would tell you). Here pull my finger!
Gene

Alex Lawrence wrote: Perhaps cars are powered by their weels.

Okay but then ask a NASCAR driver if any old wheels would do... I certainly understand that you need an engine to power the wheels. I just happen to also understand that you ALSO need something that pushes and something to push against. When people say "where does the power come from", some people will say it comes from the combination. (Okay can't argue with that!) But I think the question is asking for a way to think about things to be most helpful in terms of aikido - and few people will be in a place where that kind of thinking helps.

In general (not specifically you) -- If you think your power comes primarily from your hips, I believe you will train in a way that will produce what we (in my dojo) like to call a "strong arm bandit". If you like to think about how to move so that power comes from the ground and is distributed from the hips, I believe you have a much better chance of developing some sophistication in your aikido movement.

Rob

Paige

Please rethink the explanations offered to you here.
Your reply about…The power from dirt?
This is not “other worldly,” “demonic,” or “animist” belief/ powers from the earth. It is an entirely physical skill that can be enhanced by mental (think of this as enhanced focus) imagery, breathing and some other things. That said, as a practicing Christian I can tell you I would have no part of anything involving that stuff. I can also tell you that it does not, in any way, violate anything of a spiritual nature. I personally think of it as me finally getting it- as to what God made our bodies to be and how to move…naturally. Essentially what makes our bodies work better. In the oddest of twists I feel far more free all encompassing and giving when fighting this way. I actually smile.

The “ground force to any point in the body” connection can be made by anyone with the right training. The massage method that Mike mentioned is not strange at all-it is completely a physical skill, I do it when I get messaged and there are several therapists who will ask you to do it. I know of two in Seattle.
But enough of that-it can be profound as a martial technique as well. What it does do is make a physical connection “happen” in your body which is completely real, and completely rational. There is quite a sense of satisfaction at having large men hurt their arms and hands while hitting you.
The grounding force is a way to use “less” muscle to simply stand, and this allows you to use other parts of your body –and yes your breath-to increase resistive force and focused penetrating force. Think of how many could perceive what you do in Aikido as “magic” because they don’t understand what YOU are doing either.
I took three men who have never done these things and trained them in 6 months to year to duplicate them to a degree. One 150 guy had a 280 pound jujutsuka pushing on his chest at the edge of a mat and he could not move him-then the little guy threw him. As well he “absorbed” deep penetrating punches. All learned through natural, boringly repetative, exhausing......work. Please trust what I am telling you is not spiritualy compromising. These are high level physical skills only.
At any rate, lets try assuming the best instead of the worse, and ask questions about things we don’t understand.

fighting, kicks and punches, feints, chokes, throws and head hunting.....
Lets not overdo things. Push hands and connections and penetrating punches while valid and real are NOT in and of themselves; fighting. Fighting is fighting.Just as in anything else people can excel at.... these skills may or may not be able to be utilized for and against repetitive attacks and the physical skills of a trained fighter. It is best to keep a level, pragmatic head about you. There are no end of martial “artists” who do well in various limited “tests”and limited fighting who then fall apart against serious fighters. In the end, there are no shortcuts.

Cheers
Dan

wow... big post ^ like i said , im no longer contributing to the discussion on this thread. Private msg me if you have something u need to say.

but i did read it just so u know.

but i skipped over some of the boring stuff in the middle

Power comes from the power itself.

leon

Thanks for you thoughts Dan, I enjoyed reading them, and made me think of some things. Not that I am attacking your post or you...just some thoughts....

I find it interesting when we try to dissect things down to their base elements that we somehow separate things into various "boxes". In the process we disconnect or view spirituality and physical things as separate..never shall they meet.

A punch is just a punch or throwing a 250 lbs guy at 100lbs is purely physical in nature. I suppose so, based on your own paradigm and/or religious belief system that may be true for you.

Trust me, I am no KI wizard nor do I have faith that I could physically stand in front of a moving train and focus hard enough that I could stop it with my mental powers and spirituality by praying, meditating etc. In that regard, I'd say physics would win every time. (maybe not...it is possible!)

However, I believe that you cannot separate spirituality or yourself entirely from the physicality of a punch. In order to get there many things had to happen. You had to be at the right place and the right time, be in a certain mind set, have been mentally prepared (or not!), for the punch etc....

What happens after the punch? What damage was done...not only physically, but mentally and spiritually to the other person? Did they forgive you? do they hold a grudge? Will it come back to haunt you? what justified the punch in your mind and more the norm of society?

What did you eat that morning? Did it give you the proper ENGERY to deliver the punch? Who/what put that meal there for you to eat?

My point is, that a punch is not simply a punch or a physical technique....nor is it magic, but their is a middle ground in which all this meets to make it happen. All of this is interconnected.

So while some may be able to pinpoint the power of a punch as coming from the ground, which I do support as a valid point, it comes from much more than just the ground...it comes from much more than gravity...it requires a whole world and universe in order to make it possible for that punch to happen!

thanks for the opportunity to think and express my thoughts!