Mushin/mushin no shin

A recent post from Paula reminded me, but I thought it better to start a new thread so as not to interrupt...

On these boards, and in books, I always read mushin. In class, we call it "mushin no shin." For y'all Japanese speakers: What is the literal difference? Is mushin just said because it's understood to mean "mushin no shin" or do they differ slightly in meaning?

Curiously yours,

Clayton.

Just watch me being corrected on this but Mushin no shin would translate as No mind of mind. A little redundant - no? Sort of like saying I planted a plant - not wrong but it sure sounds funny.

Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote: Just watch me being corrected on this but Mushin no shin would translate as No mind of mind.

Close -- it'd probably translate closer to something like "mind of no mind."

A little redundant - no? Sort of like saying I planted a plant - not wrong but it sure sounds funny.

It sounds a bit odd, especially using "shin" in its on-yomi (Chinese style) reading. If I were to see the characters, I'd probably read it as "mushin no kokoro" myself...

Maybe the phrase refers to a concept wherein "mushin" could refer to not just the kokoro but also the body? If that were the case, then maybe there'd be need to refer to "mushin no kokoro/shin" (as opposed to "mushin no karada/mi")? Just guessing.

-- Jun

what do kokoro and karada mean?

Jun Akiyama (akiy) wrote: Maybe the phrase refers to a concept wherein "mushin" could refer to not just the kokoro but also the body? If that were the case, then maybe there'd be need to refer to "mushin no kokoro/shin" (as opposed to "mushin no karada/mi")? Just guessing.

How about mushin mugamae.

kokoro -> heart/mind

karada -> body

Jun Akiyama (akiy) wrote: Close -- it'd probably translate closer to something like "mind of no mind."

That's what sensei said it meant. ... I was confused, though because I thought everyone's concept of mushin was "mind of no mind." So Mushin is simply "no mind" or "empty mind"?

Not that it matters. I understand the concept, I'm just fascinated with languages, and watned to see its exact translation.

many thanks!

So Mushin is simply "no mind" or "empty mind"?

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A better meaning for "Mushin" would be "clear mind" or "uncluttered mind" rather than "no mind" unless, when using it you mean to refer the unthinking muscle memory and instant reactions needed for a swift reply to an attack.

Along the line of this thread- I'm mindfull of the scene in LAST SAMURAI where the main actor is struggling to learn boken kata aor sword fighting- some one says to him :"mind too busy, mind village , mind people- no mind, no mind.."
I find when i'm clear I can do muso shinden ryu easier than when I've got other issues bouncing around in my head. My Sensai has seen me struggle with my head on at least one occasion, and remonstrated-"no mind, don't think-do.." just my two cents on this phrase- most likely shoud have posted in training.
Bruce