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Old 12-29-2016, 02:25 PM   #26
robin_jet_alt
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 705
Australia
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Re: Ushiro Ukemi

Quote:
Tarik Ghbeish wrote: View Post

If I am throwing into a backwards fall correctly, I will have locked my partners spine and cause their feet to suddenly thrust forward (as if stepping upon a roller skate). Either one foot or both feet. The fall that results will not be a back roll.

The only time that back rolls seem to work in technique is when uke chooses to go before the terminal point in their posture where their spine is still not locked and they can still take a step forwards or backwards.
I can see that we are totally on the same page. If you are able to move backwards when falling, one of 2 things have happened.

1) Nage is letting you (i.e. they are not really throwing you)
2) Nage is has screwed up the timing and technique, etc. and is relying on their own strength.

Neither is desirable.
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:32 PM   #27
jurasketu
Dojo: Roswell Budokan
Location: Roswell GA
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 141
United_States
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Re: Ushiro Ukemi

Quote:
Tarik Ghbeish wrote: View Post
I don't think being on the ground is a good idea at all, but I'm just saying that there's plenty that can be done from the ground if you end up there. I've been on the ground in a real fight with multiple attackers and my goal was to get up as soon as possible.
Ick. Glad you came out okay.

Quote:
Just like there's a shizen hontai standing, there's a shizen hontai on the ground where blocking kicks is not at all difficult and in fact can be very dangerous to the kicker if they aren't aware of what you can do. It's very easy to destroy a knee from this position.
An incautious attacker deserves a blown knee. I often like to say: The best time to kick someone is when they or you are down.

Quote:
Anyway, I certainly agree that lying on the ground is not the place to be in a self-defense situation especially with multiple attackers, but in testing in the dojo, I've always been able to easily attack the backs of people who use back rolls to try and get back into a good ma-ai.

Regards,
I agree a lazy backward roll is useless for fighting/ma-ai and ordinary effort on the part of the attacker would make that a bad plan. A fast one executed with no step with the intent of coming right back into the attacker is a different animal and quite shocking to the nage especially on a follow up. Of course, just like being on the ground - just having to take a roll of any kind in a confrontation means that things are not going well...

All paths lead to death. I strongly recommend taking one of the scenic routes.
AWA - Nidan - Started Aikido training in 2008
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Old 12-29-2016, 03:08 PM   #28
robin_jet_alt
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 705
Australia
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Re: Ushiro Ukemi

Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote: View Post
I can see that we are totally on the same page. If you are able to move backwards when falling, one of 2 things have happened.

1) Nage is letting you (i.e. they are not really throwing you)
2) Nage is has screwed up the timing and technique, etc. and is relying on their own strength.

Neither is desirable.
I forgot to mention number 3, which you brought up. Uke has not attacked and they are rolling pre-emptively.
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