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Old 11-06-2015, 07:08 PM   #51
jdm4life
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Re: Ukemi problems

The ground wont come to meet you so the nearer you can get to it the better.

Crashing even a few inches down onto a shoulder isnt good.

Took me a long time to get ukemi to a point I was satisfied with but I just pushed myself and eventually it clicked. It was rather frustrating for a while and seeing complete beginners turn up and have it in a few weeks didn't help......but that didnt matter... I had my own reasons for struggling with it so I just kept to myself and worked at it. One day I got annoyed and just decided, right, Im going for it and then I started to get somewhere. Im now working on mae yoko kaiten, ushiro yoko kaiten and eventually progress to front rolls/falls with the front arm out of action.

Get low, go slow, dont jump into it or throw yourself, try to picture travelling across the mat rather than down towards it because you will crash.... you are travelling across it, not down.

I think being 6'3 has its drawbacks when learning this so it took as long as took and thats just the way it is. It takes as long as it takes but steely determination goes a long way.

Ive practiced on and off for a couple of years and remain ungraded, no big deal. I may be due to jump a couple of grades but Im pretty dam hard on myself and am rarely satisfied with my practice anyway so a different coloured belt wont make much difference with that. The biggest test for me is inbetween my ears.

Last edited by jdm4life : 11-06-2015 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 11-09-2015, 10:33 AM   #52
Michael Douglas
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Re: Ukemi problems

Quote:
Stephen Irving wrote: View Post
Crashing even a few inches down onto a shoulder isnt good.
In my experience a few inches does not make a crash, so ... just saying.

I remember back when I was sixteen practicing Aikido at a tiny club in N.Ormesby we were all middling at ukemi from sensible stuff
then a guy in a hakama (first we'd seen!) came to train, threw himself at the slightest touch and crashed into the mats with thunder in a way that made us all fear for his safety. That was wierd.
Since then I've seen that stuff on youtube and it seems more common than what we were doing.
Maybe our Sensei was a leftover from the Hut or something... in a good way = a lot more logical than the new guy.
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Old 11-09-2015, 08:46 PM   #53
Janet Rosen
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Re: Ukemi problems

Quote:
Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
In my experience a few inches does not make a crash, so ... just saying..
Tell that to all the beginners, myself included, who sustained A-C separations from precisely that, crashing onto the top of the shoulder when learning forward rolls, because of failure to embody "unbendable arm." Too many of us lost precious weeks of early training and ended up with if nothing else a joint that aches in bad weather.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:00 PM   #54
rugwithlegs
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Re: Ukemi problems

Janet is right. Some body parts absorb impact better than others, and some alignments. Otherwise why even study falling? Even with a short distance, it is your body weight plus the force from nage and Uke driving at the ground. Bring that on the tip of the shoulder or on a neck or some other honey prominence and injury and pain will probably happen.

In terms of the crash mat, I did think for Koshinage practice that it was important to throw more often (not throwing is training to balance Uke, not get kuzushi.). I tried using the dojo crash mat - and I was unstable throwing someone. I lost my balance and landed on people, or people landed on me, and getting my knees out of the way was harder because I couldn't shift my weight. So, I tried throwing right beside the crash pad, but several times the Uke was landing with their hip on the crash mat, and their shoulder on the regular mat. I found it very ackward to fall on an uneven surface and stopped even trying this.

Best thing for good Ukemi - get thrown well. So, I started to focus on me as a Nage rather than me as an Uke.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:01 PM   #55
rugwithlegs
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Re: Ukemi problems

Janet is right. Some body parts absorb impact better than others, and some alignments. Otherwise why even study falling? Even with a short distance, it is your body weight plus the force from nage and Uke driving at the ground. Bring that on the tip of the shoulder or on a neck or some other honey prominence and injury and pain will probably happen.

In terms of the crash mat, I did think for Koshinage practice that it was important to throw more often (not throwing is training to balance Uke, not get kuzushi.). I tried using the dojo crash mat - and I was unstable throwing someone. I lost my balance and landed on people, or people landed on me, and getting my knees out of the way was harder because I couldn't shift my weight. So, I tried throwing right beside the crash pad, but several times the Uke was landing with their hip on the crash mat, and their shoulder on the regular mat. I found it very ackward to fall on an uneven surface and stopped even trying this.

Best thing for good Ukemi - get thrown well. So, I started to focus on me as a Nage rather than me as an Uke.
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Old 11-10-2015, 10:10 AM   #56
kewms
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Re: Ukemi problems

I know it's common practice to send beginners off to work on rolls in a corner by themselves, but I think it's a bad idea. They don't know what it's supposed to feel like, and even if something hurts they won't necessarily know what to do to fix the problem.

The judo world has lots of drills to teach koshinage ukemi. One I particularly like is this:
Partner A gets on hands and knees on the floor. Partner B stands or kneels next to them, then reaches across their back and under to grab Partner A's dogi. (90 degree angle, so Partner B is lying crosswise on Partner A's back). Tuck the head under Partner A's body and roll into the breakfall position.

Grabbing the dogi helps keep the head and shoulders off the floor, but this is so close to the ground that most people won't find the fall intimidating.

Katherine
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:56 PM   #57
Janet Rosen
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Re: Ukemi problems

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
I know it's common practice to send beginners off to work on rolls in a corner by themselves, but I think it's a bad idea. They don't know what it's supposed to feel like, and even if something hurts they won't necessarily know what to do to fix the problem.

The judo world has lots of drills to teach koshinage ukemi. One I particularly like is this:
Partner A gets on hands and knees on the floor. Partner B stands or kneels next to them, then reaches across their back and under to grab Partner A's dogi. (90 degree angle, so Partner B is lying crosswise on Partner A's back). Tuck the head under Partner A's body and roll into the breakfall position.

Grabbing the dogi helps keep the head and shoulders off the floor, but this is so close to the ground that most people won't find the fall intimidating.

Katherine
Yep.
I favor using this to start all rolling practice, which IIRC is Ellis Amdur's technique.
I use a version of this in my class for seniors on how to survive falls (if I didn't have the stable round cylinder, I'd need the human volunteer to be partner A) and as a very beginning version I have them not even roll but "ooze" over, exhaling and reaching with the back hand/arm.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 11-11-2015, 01:40 PM   #58
jdm4life
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Re: Ukemi problems

Quote:
Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
In my experience a few inches does not make a crash, so ... just saying.
.
Well thats one opinion and from experience Id happily disagree.

The shoulder isnt designed to be dropped onto from ANY height. Im having trouble with mine now and have not landed on it that much recently.

Its easy to forget how dangerous aikido can be... Even a slight miscalculation during ukemi could result in somebody being seriously injured. Its even more dangerous when you have clumsy training partners who treat your body as if it will bend in any way they feel like forcing it.

Last edited by jdm4life : 11-11-2015 at 01:50 PM.
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