Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-28-2002, 01:48 AM   #26
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
Japan
Offline
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hakama History/Tradition

Quote:
Edward Karaa (Edward) wrote:
Nice to hear from you again.
Always a pleasure.
Quote:
I basically agree with all the points in your post but I have some reservations regarding the following: <massive snip>
I really don't know much about his background and as you know, no matter who, whether intentional or not, recollections can be quite self serving. I wont argue with what you surmize.
Quote:
....and that the picture of Osensei is still being bowed at at the Shomen of every Tomiki dojo is an irrevocable proof of their appartenance, despite the fundamental differences.
For info's sake.

We acutally don't bow to anyones picture. There is a Omoto-kyo shrine high on the front wall. Also on the front wall, to the side, are large pictures of Tomiki, Ohba with purple trim since the dojo was theirs and they are dead and a couple of pictures of Ueshiba M. with both men. If anything we be to the shrine but that has absolutely no religious signficane to most practicioners. That said. Ueshiba M. is respected as the founder of Aikido and the teacher of Tomiki K. and Ohba H..

We don't see Ueshiba M. as Kami.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2002, 02:36 AM   #27
Edward
Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
Thailand
Offline
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hakama History/Tradition

Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
We don't see Ueshiba M. as Kami.
Neither do we.

Osensei and Kisshomaru Doshu pictures are placed separately well apart from the Kamiza.

However, we do bow to the picture of Osensei, but as far as I know, not as Kami but as founder of aikido.

Cheers,

Edward
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2002, 05:58 AM   #28
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,289
United_States
Offline
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hakama History/Traditi

Quote:
Edward Karaa (Edward) wrote:
Neither do we.

Osensei and Kisshomaru Doshu pictures are placed separately well apart from the Kamiza.

However, we do bow to the picture of Osensei, but as far as I know, not as Kami but as founder of aikido.

Cheers,

Edward
Now here's the tricky part - basically speaking, everybody becomes a kami after death. Even Kenji Tomiki .

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2002, 08:26 AM   #29
Ta Kung
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 237
Offline
As far as hakama colors go, I'd sure like a transparent one. That would rule!

/Patrik
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2002, 08:46 AM   #30
Edward
Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
Thailand
Offline
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hakama History/Traditi

Quote:
Christopher Li (Chris Li) wrote:
Now here's the tricky part - basically speaking, everybody becomes a kami after death. Even Kenji Tomiki .

Best,

Chris
I guess this would be true not only in shintoism but also in probably all other major religions. We all become spirits after death, right?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2002, 06:38 PM   #31
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
Japan
Offline
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hakama History

Quote:
Edward Karaa (Edward) wrote:
I guess this would be true not only in shintoism but also in probably all other major religions. We all become spirits after death, right?
Oh oh threads a wandering.

This is a question I've had for a long time. I understand Ueshiba M. was enshrined in a ceremony of more significance than what is usually performed for newly dead relatives for example. How much of a deification was this.

We bow to the kamiza and not to the pici but just to quickly point out I did not mean that if you bow to the picture you are worshipping Ueshiba M. Just that at Shodokan Honbu we don't bow to anyones picture - I think much like Edward describes his dodjo. I wonder Chris if there really is a connection in Shinto between picture and worship.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2002, 08:39 PM   #32
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,289
United_States
Offline
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hakama His

Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
Oh oh threads a wandering.

This is a question I've had for a long time. I understand Ueshiba M. was enshrined in a ceremony of more significance than what is usually performed for newly dead relatives for example. How much of a deification was this.
I don't know the details of his funeral, but Shinto funerals are generally much more complex than Buddhist ones, which are far more common in Japan. Of course funeral ceremonies vary from region to region, with the status of the individual, and so on. With M. Ueshiba's religious bent I would be surprised if the funeral were not significantly more complex than your run of the mill affair.

On the other hand, I wouldn't characterize any of the Shinto rituals for the dead that I know of as "deifications" in the sense that people in the west would think of a "deification" - the Japanese concepts of kami and religion are fairly different.
Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
We bow to the kamiza and not to the pici but just to quickly point out I did not mean that if you bow to the picture you are worshipping Ueshiba M. Just that at Shodokan Honbu we don't bow to anyones picture - I think much like Edward describes his dodjo. I wonder Chris if there really is a connection in Shinto between picture and worship.
Not really, not that I know of. People put pictures of the dead in Buddhist household shrines, but even that is just aesthetic, the actual spirit is encased in a seperate vehicle.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wearing Hakama Shouri (Steve) General 92 11-20-2014 10:32 AM
Hakama for non-yudansha SeanToner General 78 11-20-2008 02:27 PM
Hakama FAQ DaveO Humor 24 11-02-2004 06:22 PM
Purpose of waiting... actoman Training 15 10-10-2003 10:57 AM
Hakama or no hakama. nmarques General 40 06-13-2002 07:57 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:30 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2017 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2017 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate