Hakama Colors

Edward Karaa (Edward) wrote: Nice to hear from you again.

Always a pleasure.

I basically agree with all the points in your post but I have some reservations regarding the following: <massive snip>

I really don't know much about his background and as you know, no matter who, whether intentional or not, recollections can be quite self serving. I wont argue with what you surmize.

....and that the picture of Osensei is still being bowed at at the Shomen of every Tomiki dojo is an irrevocable proof of their appartenance, despite the fundamental differences.

For info's sake.

We acutally don't bow to anyones picture. There is a Omoto-kyo shrine high on the front wall. Also on the front wall, to the side, are large pictures of Tomiki, Ohba with purple trim since the dojo was theirs and they are dead and a couple of pictures of Ueshiba M. with both men. If anything we be to the shrine but that has absolutely no religious signficane to most practicioners. That said. Ueshiba M. is respected as the founder of Aikido and the teacher of Tomiki K. and Ohba H..

We don't see Ueshiba M. as Kami.

Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote: We don't see Ueshiba M. as Kami.

Neither do we.

Osensei and Kisshomaru Doshu pictures are placed separately well apart from the Kamiza.

However, we do bow to the picture of Osensei, but as far as I know, not as Kami but as founder of aikido.

Cheers,

Edward

Edward Karaa (Edward) wrote: Neither do we. Osensei and Kisshomaru Doshu pictures are placed separately well apart from the Kamiza. However, we do bow to the picture of Osensei, but as far as I know, not as Kami but as founder of aikido. Cheers, Edward

Now here's the tricky part - basically speaking, everybody becomes a kami after death. Even Kenji Tomiki .

Best,

Chris

As far as hakama colors go, I'd sure like a transparent one. That would rule!

/Patrik

Christopher Li (Chris Li) wrote: Now here's the tricky part - basically speaking, everybody becomes a kami after death. Even Kenji Tomiki . Best, Chris

I guess this would be true not only in shintoism but also in probably all other major religions. We all become spirits after death, right?

Edward Karaa (Edward) wrote: I guess this would be true not only in shintoism but also in probably all other major religions. We all become spirits after death, right?

Oh oh threads a wandering.

This is a question I've had for a long time. I understand Ueshiba M. was enshrined in a ceremony of more significance than what is usually performed for newly dead relatives for example. How much of a deification was this.

We bow to the kamiza and not to the pici but just to quickly point out I did not mean that if you bow to the picture you are worshipping Ueshiba M. Just that at Shodokan Honbu we don't bow to anyones picture - I think much like Edward describes his dodjo. I wonder Chris if there really is a connection in Shinto between picture and worship.

Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote: Oh oh threads a wandering. This is a question I've had for a long time. I understand Ueshiba M. was enshrined in a ceremony of more significance than what is usually performed for newly dead relatives for example. How much of a deification was this.

I don't know the details of his funeral, but Shinto funerals are generally much more complex than Buddhist ones, which are far more common in Japan. Of course funeral ceremonies vary from region to region, with the status of the individual, and so on. With M. Ueshiba's religious bent I would be surprised if the funeral were not significantly more complex than your run of the mill affair.

On the other hand, I wouldn't characterize any of the Shinto rituals for the dead that I know of as "deifications" in the sense that people in the west would think of a "deification" - the Japanese concepts of kami and religion are fairly different.

Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote: We bow to the kamiza and not to the pici but just to quickly point out I did not mean that if you bow to the picture you are worshipping Ueshiba M. Just that at Shodokan Honbu we don't bow to anyones picture - I think much like Edward describes his dodjo. I wonder Chris if there really is a connection in Shinto between picture and worship.

Not really, not that I know of. People put pictures of the dead in Buddhist household shrines, but even that is just aesthetic, the actual spirit is encased in a seperate vehicle.

Best,

Chris