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Old 03-09-2011, 06:24 PM   #1
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
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The book Positive Aikido....

I recently purchased a copy of the book Positive Aikido…. A book about the early days of aikido in the UK in the 1950's and onwards…….. Having read it and relating to it, I can to some extent well understand the difficulties and challenges that would have brought. I started aikido in 1975 when it was still relatively unknown in the UK.

The aikidoka of today have a great debt to these pioneers. It should be bought as a valuable reminder to the true realities that so many aikidoka of today take for granted…..

A book really well worth reading and a definite no no to all those who prefer to dance, do yoga and generally do not understand the true worth of this devastatingly effective martial art. Having now read the book I am better able to see why Sensei Ellis frowns on so much that is offered as Aikido today...I really enjoyed it's no nonsense approach to Aikido as a Martial Art..

I hope to meet Sensei Ellis and Sensei Eastman and have the book signed one day very soon, and also buy them the pint(s) of their favourite beer that I should have bought them both 34 years ago for a great and rewarding session of aikido at the Winchester Judo & Martial Arts club !! Which I am sure Ellis & Eastman Sensei's don't remember as well as I do!!
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:06 PM   #2
crbateman
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I hope to meet Sensei Ellis and Sensei Eastman and have the book signed one day very soon,
Then you will no doubt be pleased to learn that they are working on another book right now...
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:32 AM   #3
Gorgeous George
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Isn't the meaning of the kanji 'bu', essentially 'to protect from harm'?
And weren't the samurai - at least nominally - cultured gentlemen, whose understanding of martial arts was derived from the necessity to protect others/society?

So, to understand the purpose of a 'devestating martial art', was absolutely essential: it's no use being able to kill - or do anything, for that matter - unless you understand why.
With power comes responsibility, etc.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:15 AM   #4
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
Then you will no doubt be pleased to learn that they are working on another book right now...
Then I will purchasing that one to........
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:18 AM   #5
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
Isn't the meaning of the kanji 'bu', essentially 'to protect from harm'?
And weren't the samurai - at least nominally - cultured gentlemen, whose understanding of martial arts was derived from the necessity to protect others/society?

So, to understand the purpose of a 'devestating martial art', was absolutely essential: it's no use being able to kill - or do anything, for that matter - unless you understand why.
With power comes responsibility, etc.
I believe it also means "military" ...?
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:41 AM   #6
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Yes bu means military
Bujutsu = "military science"
Budo = "military way"
Also has connotations as to stopping the halberd....?
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:35 AM   #7
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
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England
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I recently purchased a copy of the book Positive Aikido…. A book about the early days of aikido in the UK in the 1950's and onwards…….. Having read it and relating to it, I can to some extent well understand the difficulties and challenges that would have brought. I started aikido in 1975 when it was still relatively unknown in the UK.

The aikidoka of today have a great debt to these pioneers. It should be bought as a valuable reminder to the true realities that so many aikidoka of today take for granted…..

A book really well worth reading and a definite no no to all those who prefer to dance, do yoga and generally do not understand the true worth of this devastatingly effective martial art. Having now read the book I am better able to see why Sensei Ellis frowns on so much that is offered as Aikido today...I really enjoyed it's no nonsense approach to Aikido as a Martial Art..

I hope to meet Sensei Ellis and Sensei Eastman and have the book signed one day very soon, and also buy them the pint(s) of their favourite beer that I should have bought them both 34 years ago for a great and rewarding session of aikido at the Winchester Judo & Martial Arts club !! Which I am sure Ellis & Eastman Sensei's don't remember as well as I do!!
Tony

I am pleased that you enjoyed the book " Positive Aikido" . Of course the warning on the inside cover does not apply to you ...
I do remember teaching at Winchester all those years ago, I just do not remember the students
Derek and I would always be pleased to have a pint of beer with you, as you are paying....and of course we will sign the book..

I am not happy with Amazon UK charging more than Amazon US. To all the people who have emailed me, I am in the process of having copies of the book shipped over to me, and I will sell them from my home address...

Henry Ellis
British Aikido History
www.british-aikido.com
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:54 AM   #8
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

I am pleased that you enjoyed the book " Positive Aikido" . Of course the warning on the inside cover does not apply to you ...
I do remember teaching at Winchester all those years ago, I just do not remember the students
Derek and I would always be pleased to have a pint of beer with you, as you are paying....and of course we will sign the book..

I am not happy with Amazon UK charging more than Amazon US. To all the people who have emailed me, I am in the process of having copies of the book shipped over to me, and I will sell them from my home address...

Henry Ellis
British Aikido History
www.british-aikido.com
I just had a look at your website Henry and it does say that your next book is in the pipeline, I will be looking forward to read that one to.....
Would you be so kind to reserve one for me? I wouldn't like to miss out if it's as good as the 1st !!

http://www.british-aikido.com/i/posi...-cover-big.JPG

http://www.british-aikido.com/news.htm

PS I remember Derek Sensei's kotegaeshi well !!!!! Very powerful, clean and nice to experience....

Last edited by Tony Wagstaffe : 03-10-2011 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:07 AM   #9
Gorgeous George
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Yes bu means military
Bujutsu = "military science"
Budo = "military way"
Also has connotations as to stopping the halberd....?
Military: in one sense, yes - but it doesn't define what it actually means...'the meaning of bu, both literally and in its historical context, encompasses a much broader set of concepts' (The Principles of Aikido; Mitsugi Saotome; p.191).

As I said: the kanji shows a spear being stopped - 'the original intent of bu was to stop war, to protect people from weapons' (ibid).

'Budo was intended to preserve the orderliness of society, not to promote the use of indiscriminate violence or brute force.' (ibid)

'...generally do not understand the true worth of this devastatingly effective martial art'
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:10 AM   #10
Flintstone
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
Isn't the meaning of the kanji 'bu', essentially 'to protect from harm'?
Myth.

Quote:
http://www.kanjinetworks.com/eng/kanji-dictionary/online-kanji-etymology-dictionary.cfm?kanji_id=MAG13 wrote:
武 (8) ブ ; ム BIS

BIS combines 止 (Type 3 Phonetic) (stand straight by) + 戈 spear/halberd → armed (and armored) warrior attending on a superior → martial; military → ferocious.
Fact.

Last edited by Flintstone : 03-10-2011 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:13 AM   #11
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
Then you will no doubt be pleased to learn that they are working on another book right now...
Tony

I will put your name on the order list.

Clark Bateman is recognised as an avid collector of books on Aikido, and if I recall ? - the first person to order the book " Positive Aikido" on its release......Thanks again Clark .....

Henry Ellis
British Aikido History
www.british-aikido.com
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:16 AM   #12
Gorgeous George
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Myth.

Fact.
How does that contradict what I said?
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:18 AM   #13
C. David Henderson
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Myth.

Fact.
Thanks.

David Henderson
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:19 AM   #14
Flintstone
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
How does that contradict what I said?
In no way. I was just clearing a misconception of us poor westerners.
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:21 AM   #15
Gorgeous George
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
In no way. I was just clearing a misconception of us poor westerners.
Ah.
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:34 AM   #16
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

I will put your name on the order list.

Clark Bateman is recognised as an avid collector of books on Aikido, and if I recall ? - the first person to order the book " Positive Aikido" on its release......Thanks again Clark .....

Henry Ellis
British Aikido History
www.british-aikido.com
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:35 AM   #17
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
Ah.
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:42 PM   #18
Gorgeous George
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:39 PM   #19
crbateman
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Clark Bateman is recognised as an avid collector of books on Aikido, and if I recall ? - the first person to order the book " Positive Aikido" on its release......Thanks again Clark .....
Not at all, Sensei... It's the kind of thing that gets my immediate attention... I hope to get the same opportunity with the new one.
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:39 PM   #20
jamie yugawa
 
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Ellis sensei,
Please put me on the list as well!!! I am fascinated by Aikido history in general, but with your wealth of experience and interesting history this should be a should be a great read!
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Old 03-11-2011, 04:11 AM   #21
Flintstone
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:24 AM   #22
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
Not at all, Sensei... It's the kind of thing that gets my immediate attention... I hope to get the same opportunity with the new one.
Clark

I hope to get the same opportunity with the new one.

I give you my word, you certainly will

Henry Ellis
Positive Aikido
http://aikido-books.blogspot.com/
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:32 AM   #23
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
Ellis sensei,
Please put me on the list as well!!! I am fascinated by Aikido history in general, but with your wealth of experience and interesting history this should be a should be a great read!
Jamie

I have not forgotten our earlier pms..the same will apply with the new book...My student and long time friend Dave Rogers is an ex newspaper editor and journalist. when I am in NM we sit with a beer and chat for hours in those beautiful evenings, Dave with note pad and pen in hand, so I think he now knows more about my history than I do Although there will be history, there will be so much more...

Henry Ellis
Positive Aikido
http://aikido-books.blogspot.com/
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:35 AM   #24
Jon Marshall
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Hi All,

I enjoyed the book too, especially the historical aspects.

Allow me to put the cat among the pigeons, or the softie among the rough necks... Sensei Ken Williams is mentioned (very respectfully) in a few of the anecdotes, as Abe Sensei's most senior student.

After Abe Sensei left the UK, Sensei Williams spent a period without a teacher then went off to train with Tohei. He later set up the Ki Federation of GB which his wife now runs, with Sensei Williams still teaching (late 70's now). He teaches the whole ki and mind-body coordination stuff, emphasing softness and relaxation. He does not emphasise martial applicability, but teaches that if you have the ki, then the martial stuff is there.

I don't really have a question as such, but I do find it curious that I have never heard/seen this defection to the soft side of Kenshiro Abe's top student mentioned by the old-schoolers. I'd certainly be curious to hear a response.

Regards,
(and respect for the hard and the soft approaches)
Jon.

P.S. I'm off-line for a week or so, so won't be able to respond immediately.
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Old 03-17-2011, 05:49 PM   #25
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: The book Positive Aikido....

Quote:
Jon Marshall wrote: View Post
Hi All,

I enjoyed the book too, especially the historical aspects.

Allow me to put the cat among the pigeons, or the softie among the rough necks... Sensei Ken Williams is mentioned (very respectfully) in a few of the anecdotes, as Abe Sensei's most senior student.

After Abe Sensei left the UK, Sensei Williams spent a period without a teacher then went off to train with Tohei. He later set up the Ki Federation of GB which his wife now runs, with Sensei Williams still teaching (late 70's now). He teaches the whole ki and mind-body coordination stuff, emphasing softness and relaxation. He does not emphasise martial applicability, but teaches that if you have the ki, then the martial stuff is there.

I don't really have a question as such, but I do find it curious that I have never heard/seen this defection to the soft side of Kenshiro Abe's top student mentioned by the old-schoolers. I'd certainly be curious to hear a response.

Regards,
(and respect for the hard and the soft approaches)
Jon.

P.S. I'm off-line for a week or so, so won't be able to respond immediately.
Jon

I am pleased that you enjoyed the book `` Positive Aikido ``.
I hope you will be encouraged to order book 2 " Positive Aikido - Hidden Knowledge " ??

Ken Williams Sensei is now 80 years of age and still teaching.

He was, as you say, the first student of Aikido with K Abbe Sensei.
I was discussing Sensei Williams with the last pioneers Derek Eastman and Haydn Foster Sensei just a few months before Foster Sensei died.
We were all agreed that Williams Sensei was a rather special man at a very special time, we were also agreed that none of us would have been as able, as he became, to take Aikido from a total nothing to a nationally accepted martial art.
The object of " Positive Aikido " was to historically record the facts.
I was Williams Sensei's personal assistant, believe me Williams Sensei was a hard man, he had to be, we fought for real many times as we tested each other all the way....no ribbons, just snot and blood.

Jiro Nakazono said to me recently, as a schoolboy in Paris France, his father the great Masahilo Nakazono would go to teach in Britain, he would wait for his father to return to relate the wonderful stories of the brave Budo warriors of Britain. ( his words not mine )

From 1955 until 1967 I was with Williams Sensei until he moved from the `Hut` to Wales and at a later date he began his journey into ` Ki Aikido `... In 1967 I also left the `Hut` and Williams Sensei and joined Chiba Sensei.. I could never have gone the Ki road, not for me..
Unlike so many coming into Ki Aikido - Sensei Williams had, and still has, a very strong BASIC background in strong traditional Aikido...Sensei Williams was by far the best of Abbe Sensei's Aikido students and the man most suited for the position of natioanal coach.

Henry Ellis
Positive Aikido
http://aikido-books.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Hellis : 03-17-2011 at 06:00 PM.
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