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Old 12-15-2010, 06:23 PM   #401
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Blimey!!! What is this?
New age Aikido Semaphore for the severely mentally handicapped..... I know you know.....
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Old 12-15-2010, 07:05 PM   #402
salim
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
New age Aikido Semaphore for the severely mentally handicapped..... I know you know.....
Aikido is for show, not real world. That's why we philosophy so much about our art. We can accept that.
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Old 12-15-2010, 07:07 PM   #403
Randall Lim
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Jason Rudolph wrote: View Post
It seems to me that the static grab attack while perhaps unfortunately necessary for beginners, is not in an aiki direction. In other words, while it certainly is necessary to be able to deal with such an attack, it seems better to practice "leading" and not let the uke grab you how they want. As a Nage, he or she is-in my opinion,........... late. Perhaps there was not the latitude with who was teaching that particular class.

However, if there was, then the yudansha should be less concerned about the strength of the grab and be more concerned with why she let herself be grabbed (and threatened through implication of the other had and weapons the Uke has at that range) in the manner the Uke desired. Who is dictating the interaction-the Uke or is the Nage-just be reactive?

I have seen it with plenty of seniors as well including myself-either because they never learned to break the the often inevitable habit or had a mind gaff because one forgets how dangerous the attack has the potential to be.
This is exactly what my Sensei emphasises so much on: ie leading & luring.

My sensei would gently knock me on the head whatever he catches me allowing Uke to get a good grip on me without moving & leading him before contact is made. He always stresses that once Uke gets a good grip on me, there would be no more Aiki, & thus much more difficult to apply any technique.

He always stresses that Nage should lead Uke up to the point where Uke achieves a grib but has gotten himself into an ackward position. Breaking balance is then very easy.

Last edited by Randall Lim : 12-15-2010 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 12-15-2010, 07:54 PM   #404
phitruong
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

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Randall Lim wrote: View Post
.... once Uke gets a good grip on me, there would be no more Aiki, & thus much more difficult to apply any technique.
really? gosh! i got to tell Ikeda sensei that he has no aiki, since he got two big guys locked on him in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1fi3...eature=related and not lead & lure them first. the news would break his heart. oh the poor man! practicing aikido all these years and nothing to show for!
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:50 PM   #405
mickeygelum
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
I would think that any of the well known martial artists-- Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, and many others would be subject to the same criticism I'm sure
....Bruce took on all comers, and Chuck was an accomplished full-contact fighter... Seagal on the other hand was a movie made badass. Ask Ol' Steve about Mr LaBell, he still has stains in his dogi.

Please, if you are going to use Seagal as a role model, at least be honest about it... and to diminish Matsuokas' ability to make Seagal appear more than he is that is a shame.


@Tony...let's be careful out there!

Last edited by mickeygelum : 12-15-2010 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:00 PM   #406
mickeygelum
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
{sigh} another 2 yr old thread resurrected....
Quote:
Oh I don't know. I think there's enormous value in repeating what was already said many times as if it were new and original thought.

I'll do my penalty laps for snark, but honestly people...you had that coming
....140 posts later...
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Old 12-16-2010, 01:40 AM   #407
Hellis
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I think it reads.... I'm an airy fairy..... SOS..... I'm an airy fairy and I'm lairy..... I'm so cool, I'm so cool.... pat a cake pat a cake bakers man.... give me a shafting as quick as you can......

I think?
http://aikidoellisvideo.magnify.net/...armony-With-Ki

Tony

I did wonder if this video was created for ` Bullshido `. They just love this kind of stuff....To be fair the guy in the video has a good background in Traditional Aikido....
Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-16-2010, 02:52 AM   #408
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote: View Post
Aikido is for show, not real world. That's why we philosophy so much about our art. We can accept that.
What does philosophy mean? .......
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Old 12-16-2010, 02:55 AM   #409
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
http://aikidoellisvideo.magnify.net/...armony-With-Ki

Tony

I did wonder if this video was created for ` Bullshido `. They just love this kind of stuff....To be fair the guy in the video has a good background in Traditional Aikido....
Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
So either he was taking the proverbial out of himself.....
Or was he having a bad hair day?
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:05 AM   #410
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
really? gosh! i got to tell Ikeda sensei that he has no aiki, since he got two big guys locked on him in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1fi3...eature=related and not lead & lure them first. the news would break his heart. oh the poor man! practicing aikido all these years and nothing to show for!
I noticed the slight forward push of the hips from the centre which weakens the posture of uke, before the actual tenkan. This causes the push back reaction in the leading uke....... hey presto aiki!!
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:10 AM   #411
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

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Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
....140 posts later...
Hee Hee!!!
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:37 AM   #412
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
....Bruce took on all comers, and Chuck was an accomplished full-contact fighter... Seagal on the other hand was a movie made badass. Ask Ol' Steve about Mr LaBell, he still has stains in his dogi.

Please, if you are going to use Seagal as a role model, at least be honest about it... and to diminish Matsuokas' ability to make Seagal appear more than he is that is a shame.

@Tony...let's be careful out there!
Michael I'm always careful out there.....

Us cabbies develop a sixth sense......

Well some of us do...... the rest either take a bashing, get robbed or trashed.....
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:50 AM   #413
Hellis
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Michael I'm always careful out there.....

Us cabbies develop a sixth sense......

Well some of us do...... the rest either take a bashing, get robbed or trashed.....
Tony

You should start classes with your fellow cabbies, teach them
the lethal ``ribbon defence `` they could tie the drunks up in knots

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-16-2010, 04:02 AM   #414
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

You should start classes with your fellow cabbies, teach them
the lethal ``ribbon defence `` they could tie the drunks up in knots

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
Tried that one Henry..... Most are either so out of shape have diabetes, grossly over weight and get out of the cab with great difficulty, on account their seats are stuck to their backsides....

As for the ribbons, I need some to wrap up the crimbo presents......
Got any spare? I prefer green ones....
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Old 12-16-2010, 04:17 AM   #415
Hellis
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Tried that one Henry..... Most are either so out of shape have diabetes, grossly over weight and get out of the cab with great difficulty, on account their seats are stuck to their backsides....

As for the ribbons, I need some to wrap up the crimbo presents......
Got any spare? I prefer green ones....
Tony

It would be quite a spectactle to see a whole Aikido class with those synchronized ribbons..

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-16-2010, 07:23 AM   #416
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

It would be quite a spectactle to see a whole Aikido class with those synchronized ribbons..

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/
Do I answer that with my hand on hip and a limp wrist?.....
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:29 AM   #417
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Why don't you just take them out and measure them...then we can lay this to rest.
In the forum rules it says to treat each other with respect....I don't like Aikido Organizations because of this kind of Cr#$%^P.
Can't you find some common ground that isn't promoting yoursleves?
Mary
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:01 AM   #418
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
Why don't you just take them out and measure them...then we can lay this to rest.
In the forum rules it says to treat each other with respect....I don't like Aikido Organizations because of this kind of Cr#$%^P.
Can't you find some common ground that isn't promoting yoursleves?
Mary
Here it comes.....
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:28 AM   #419
Hellis
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

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Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Here it comes.....
Serves you right !! you brought this on yourself.

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:50 AM   #420
Anjisan
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Wink Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Randall Lim wrote: View Post
This is exactly what my Sensei emphasises so much on: ie leading & luring.

My sensei would gently knock me on the head whatever he catches me allowing Uke to get a good grip on me without moving & leading him before contact is made. He always stresses that once Uke gets a good grip on me, there would be no more Aiki, & thus much more difficult to apply any technique.

He always stresses that Nage should lead Uke up to the point where Uke achieves a grib but has gotten himself into an ackward position. Breaking balance is then very easy.
Exactly--well put!!
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:05 AM   #421
Anjisan
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Ai symbol Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
....Bruce took on all comers, and Chuck was an accomplished full-contact fighter... Seagal on the other hand was a movie made badass. Ask Ol' Steve about Mr LaBell, he still has stains in his dogi.

Please, if you are going to use Seagal as a role model, at least be honest about it... and to diminish Matsuokas' ability to make Seagal appear more than he is that is a shame.

@Tony...let's be careful out there!
I don't believe that I am saying that Seagal sensei is a role model by any means but merely that he drove in students when he began making movies. I think that there were allegations of Bruce having been with other woman/women who was/were not his wife and if true, only proves that no one is perfect. Also, it seems to me that Seagal must have some serious skill to get to 7th dan regardless of his ex-wifes dojo blah blah blah. I would think that it would be insulting to- I believe Abe sensei- who promoted him to 6th dan that Seagal sensei has less than his ranked level of skill.

Further, if one looks at the film The Path Beyond Thought (or view clips of it on YouTube) it seems quite apparent for anyone who has been doing Aikido for a while that he has real skill. Finally it would seem to be insulting to Matsuoka sensei that he was so stupid to be a uchi deshi for a Seagal for what--20 years if he only thought his job was to make him look good and not that Seagal had something worthwhile to learn regardless of personal shortcomings which I am sure many Shihan have but the bright light is not glaring on them so they stay safely hidden.
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:32 AM   #422
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Serves you right !! you brought this on yourself.

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
Fun while it lasted.... Oh well! back to training

I've just done an hour and felt like a cup of rosy.... hows things down in the warren?

Tony

Last edited by Tony Wagstaffe : 12-16-2010 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:45 AM   #423
Hellis
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Fun while it lasted.... Oh well! back to training

I've just done an hour and felt like a cup of rosy.... hows things down in the warren?

Tony
Just keeping my head down at the moment

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://www.british-aikido.com/positive_aikido_book.htm
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:05 PM   #424
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
Why don't you just take them out and measure them...then we can lay this to rest.
In the forum rules it says to treat each other with respect....I don't like Aikido Organizations because of this kind of Cr#$%^P.
Can't you find some common ground that isn't promoting yoursleves?
Mary
C'mon Mary don't take it to heart, It's only a bit of 'armless fun or are you just another sensitive bunnie....?
I love Bunnies..... really..... all fluffy and cute...... and mighty, mighty tasty in a good curry......
They look even more cute with ribbons tied round 'em.....
I had one as a pet and we had to eat him when Dad got made redundant..... But that was along time ago and I got over it.....

Last edited by Tony Wagstaffe : 12-16-2010 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:56 PM   #425
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Randall Lim wrote: View Post
This is exactly what my Sensei emphasises so much on: ie leading & luring.

My sensei would gently knock me on the head whatever he catches me allowing Uke to get a good grip on me without moving & leading him before contact is made. He always stresses that once Uke gets a good grip on me, there would be no more Aiki, & thus much more difficult to apply any technique.

He always stresses that Nage should lead Uke up to the point where Uke achieves a grib but has gotten himself into an ackward position. Breaking balance is then very easy.
I am not in disagreement that it is far preferable to not still be at the focal point of the uke's power when he gets there. But the statement
Quote:
He always stresses that once Uke gets a good grip on me, there would be no more Aiki
is simply not true. "Aiki" is applicable regardless. If the strength of the attack makes it more difficult, it's not "aiki".

This is what has happened to Aikido... Because people didn't understand crucial elements of how "aiki" works, it has become an art of "escaping" from an attack, rather than "joining with: and attack. Most Aikido you see is what I would call the "aiki of movement" and there is nothing inherently wrong with that part of it. It's great and is an essential part of the art. But because people do not understand "aiki" they think that "aiki" is simply non-resistant movement.

I would hope that the various Internal power discussions would have disabused folks of this notion. There is a reason that static practice is an important part of training in Aikido. Look at a demo in which the Sensei allows two, three, or four people to grab his arm at the same time... What is crucial to understand about that is that if it is harder to move those four than it would have been to move one, it isn't "aiki".

"Aiki" is about giving direction to the energy of the connection. This can be done regardless of the power being delivered because it has no resistance. If one understands how to make the contact point neutral, movement is effortless. This has not been well transmitted in Aikido so many people have ended up trying to neutralize the opponent's power by escaping from it. Getting kuzushi this way only works if the attacker is not very competent. Someone skilled will not imbalance himself just because you changed the distance on him.

Limiting Aikido to the "aiki of movement" without understanding the "aiki of joining" (my own terms for these things) requires that the ukes be taught a style of ukemi that is designed to make the techniques work.

I believe that it is crucial to the survival of the art in some quality sense that we put far more emphasis on proper static work at the beginning of every student's training. Then, when moving people would understand that the connection they had when doing static technique is a movable connection and not an escape. No one who has trained should believe that "aiki" stops if the opponent gets a strong connection. That is a low level understanding of these principles.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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