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Old 04-07-2010, 07:55 AM   #26
gregstec
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Hi Mark:

Why "turn the spine"? Back in the old days and in all the old lore, everyone just turned their dantien/hara. Has that gone out of fashion, then?

Best.

Mike
I'll do you guys one better - I don't move the spine nor the hara - I just use the old Ki Society extend ki out into uke to effect their movement - now if my ki is moving my spine, hara, or fascia, so be it, but it is the ki that is moving first

Greg
 
Old 04-07-2010, 08:03 AM   #27
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
So you can do cool stuff like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIc5N...eature=related
Yeppers...can you?

I think most of us need to concentrate on training..not discussion.

Some of you esteemed gentlemen spend more time at the keyboard than training. You would develop more ability and understanding with more experience.

Train well,

Mickey
 
Old 04-07-2010, 08:22 AM   #28
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
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Why "turn the spine"?
..a way to coax the windings directly?
 
Old 04-07-2010, 08:32 AM   #29
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Well, in addition to posting here, quite a few of us have gotten together and trained in person, Mickey. I'm talking offline with some folks about the possibilities of a meetup in Ohio this summer. So there might be an opportunity for peeps to get some hands-on time then.
 
Old 04-07-2010, 08:33 AM   #30
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
Yeppers...can you?

I think most of us need to concentrate on training..not discussion.

Some of you esteemed gentlemen spend more time at the keyboard than training. You would develop more ability and understanding with more experience.

Train well,

Mickey
he was making a statement, not asking a question...
 
Old 04-07-2010, 08:42 AM   #31
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

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Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
I'll do you guys one better - I don't move the spine nor the hara - I just use the old Ki Society extend ki out into uke to effect their movement - now if my ki is moving my spine, hara, or fascia, so be it, but it is the ki that is moving first

Greg
And how are you extending ki, Greg? From the peeps I've talked to from Ki Society, there's been some varying definitions of exactly how that works . . . let alone how it then gets expressed.
 
Old 04-07-2010, 10:17 AM   #32
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Hey Mark,
I like your plastic frame analogy. Explains why Ueshiba said that you must have kokyu before you can have "Aiki".

So we are also agreed then that structure and alignment are not "Aiki"? Perhaps a prerequisite, but not "Aiki".

I say "Aiki" has to do with understanding your opponents rhythms, putting yourself in sink with that, and using them against him. You say "Aiki" is What?

I can explain a "no touch" throw with my explanation of "Aiki" how would you explain it with yours?

Your latest video, we do a very similar exercise. I use it to develop sensitivity. I would explain what you are doing with Automatism and Sympathetic response. It comes from within but requires a sympathetic partner, not something you're likely to find in a martial situation.

I would like to hear more from the Ki society people (and all off shoots there of), and how they define "Aiki". And some videos!!

 
Old 04-07-2010, 10:48 AM   #33
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

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I would like to hear more from the Ki society people (and all off shoots there of), and how they define "Aiki". And some videos!!
Coming from Ki Society, I can only remember one time (my memory being what it is) where someone (a visiting instructor) ventured a description on "Aiki". He said something to the effect that, "aiki is sneaky". At the time, what he showed paid less attention to timing as it did with what (I thought) he had going on within himself, and what happened to uke as a result of that. In place of what many people here refer to aiki, in Ki Society, you'll typically hear, "mind and body coordination". How many people actually have it or knows what it means is something else entirely. I realize I'm only just now scratching the surface.

Thanks,
Adam
 
Old 04-07-2010, 11:10 AM   #34
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Mark, I think what you call "having an aiki body" would make more sense as "having a body capable of aiki". This underscores that its not *just* a trick , but that it requires conditioning work.

I'm familiar with how Chris is describing "Aiki" .. and fwiw i think he's describing something more in the realm of "Kiai" as described by Ellis Amdur, and conceptually you can argue the semantics of the word and the claim to the term , but its just doesn't match up to the skill described by Mike, which he just once again explained quite clearly..

Strategy wise, anything that's unexpected (disrupting to the OODA loop if you want) can be either sneaky or overwhelming, that's probably not the best feature to distinguish "aiki" from "aiki"

Alfonso Adriasola
 
Old 04-07-2010, 11:55 AM   #35
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

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Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
And how are you extending ki, Greg? From the peeps I've talked to from Ki Society, there's been some varying definitions of exactly how that works . . . let alone how it then gets expressed.
Well, that certainly is the million dollar question, isn't it - and any answer could very easily lead into the start of another Ki war

Being a private type of person, I normally don't put too much personal stuff out on the open web, but maybe its time I shared some of this for what its worth. First, let me just state that my Ki society training and experience is all from the early days of the Ki society when I was stationed in Guam with the Navy during the mid 70s. Training was conducted by Kalama Sensei (chief instructor of the Marianas Aiki Kwai) and Korestoshi Maruyama (chief instructor of the Ki Society at that time) who made extended visits to the island to teach. I have not trained with any current members of the Ki Society, nor with any members of the Ki Society from the US, so I have no idea whether they were taught the same way we were taught on Guam. With all that said, I can only tell you what was taught to me and what I found to work for me in this area - and as you mention, there are many views on this.

Back in those days, we were taught Ki as presented by Tohei in his many books about Mind and Body Coordination. To make it work, you had to believe in Ki as Tohei explained it - it is as simple as that - you just had to believe. Now once you were a believer, you just had to learn how to recognize ki within you, then you moved into learning how to control it consciously, then into controlling it subconsciously within all your movements - really a very simple model. So, how did I stumble upon recognizing what ki was within me? well, it was by accident. I was at my sempai's house talking to him in the kitchen when I remembered that I had something in the next room I wanted to show him, so I said wait here, I will be right back. I turned and started into the next room when I realized I left something in the kitchen that I needed, so I just swung around and proceed back into the kitchen. What I did not realize was that my sempai was right behind me following me into the other room. Needless to say when I turned I pivoted into him and literally threw him across the room without even realizing it - All he could say was "fantastic ki" and all I could say was "so that is what ki feels like" it was a real epiphany - when I touched him I hardly felt him and he just flew off of me; by the way, he was substantially larger and heavier than me. After that incident, I just dissected mentally and physically all aspects of the experience and started to incorporate things into my waza until I was at the point I could duplicate the feeling and employ it into my techniques. When I left Guam in late 1977, Kalama Sensei said to me in his broken English and Hawaiian accent: "Greg, you have strong ki - when you go back to the States, no one will be able to put you down"

Back in the States, I was only able to train on and off due family and work issues and unfortunately a lot of what I learned went dormant for a while. Back in the latter part of 2003 and early 2004, I actively stared to train more (this is when we first met, Budd) and I could not find anyone that was training like we did in Guam with a focus on ki. Actually, most places made fun of it ( Budd, this was before Itten started looking into the internal stuff) and I even trained with a AAA dojo (Toyoda of the AAA was one of Tohei's people in the US before he started the AAA) and even though they talked about ki, they did not teach it nor practice it the way we did in the old days. Anyway, I started to become disillusioned with the whole ki bit since no one was doing it and for the most part said it did not exist. My focus on the waza started to take a more physical approach because that is what I was being taught, but it just did not feel like it used to from the old days; which I just attributed to being rusty. However, on occasion, some of the old stuff came out and I had some flashes of brilliance. Eventfully, I ended up just trying to focus on the ki and the soft internal stuff I was taught that was part of the whole ki thing. This lead me to Mike Sigman, Howard Popkin, and Dan Harden. Although these guys can come across as being quite different in a lot of areas, they also are a lot closer than either of them may want to admit and my training with all of them has brought me full circle back to Tohei and his teachings on ki; which will give you that first foot in the door of IS - but as Dan and Mike say, you need to take it to the next step, which they both do.

So, to answer your question Budd, you simply just have to believe in Ki as a force within and outside the body that you can control with your mind. I am not talking about ki balls or flashes of energy, but there is something there and the mind is where the control starts. How you learn how to do that is a very individual thing since there just is not a step by step process to recognize and learn it. But it can be taught - it just has to be in a coached hands on environment where the instructor has immediate feedback to their directions on extending the mental intent. I always knew I could do it based on passed experience (not an expert, still learning more) from the old days, as well as recent feedback from Dan and some of his students - but the challenge was in teaching someone else to do it; especially someone that did not believe in Ki. Just recently, I hit that plateau by having two of my guys being able to move uke off center via just mental intent as Mark demonstrates in one of his videos - and one of the guys has no real martial background and has only been training for a few months.

Short answer to learning all of this is to start with your mind and place it in your center (Tohei's One Point) and then have the Universe rotate around that - still a bit esoteric, but that is just the nature of the beast for this; there really is no simply answer

Greg

Last edited by gregstec : 04-07-2010 at 12:05 PM.
 
Old 04-07-2010, 12:55 PM   #36
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Greg, I appreciate the personal and revealing explanation, even if i don't really buy into that model as a method of study or transmission..
 
Old 04-07-2010, 01:34 PM   #37
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

hi Greg,
Quote:
You simply just have to believe in Ki as a force within and outside the body that you can control with your mind. I am not talking about ki balls or flashes of energy, but there is something there and the mind is where the control start....
How you learn how to do that is a very individual thing since there just is not a step by step process to recognize and learn it. But it can be taught -
a few thoughts ... i think: another way to connect with your post
As an example:
-your heart consumes energy and beats automatically. you don't have to believe in it. But you can effect it with your beliefs (imagine someone kicking your dog. Dammit).
-it is effected by your subconscious as well as mediated by your autonomic system
-you can train your body to take control of normally subconscious/automatic things and train and refine them. Visualization can be used to tap into this. I think this is where what you call 'belief' can accurately be mapped to 'intent' by others. my opinion.
-you can feel and know -it- directly. but it does require training to become sensitive to 'the water we, as fish, swim in'. The fish analog here is to the energy in the human body<, part of which is under volitional control; and part under the brain/subconscious. 'belief' is one way to tap into the subconscious. it can be dangerous; as you are messing with your very own Tuner.
-in fact this 'belief' part, I find, is where it can fork off into a million other things (potentially delusional). This was helpful to me:: 'the energy can play with your mind'. In my thinking: Don't forget we are talking about hacking both the hardware(body/shenfa/chi) and software (mind/body programming/methods/shenfa /chi(yes; counted in both columns)/balance/proprioception/flexing patterns/etc). We are talking about changing the way things 'work' today... and I think it would be negligent to think changing them doesn't have subsequent effects somehow (i.e.... and how we see, feel and think with that very same hardware platform)
just some thoughts you put in my head! All only "In my opinion". Errors are mine alone.

Thanks a lot for sharing, Greg. Always interesting.
 
Old 04-07-2010, 01:37 PM   #38
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
Greg, I appreciate the personal and revealing explanation, even if i don't really buy into that model as a method of study or transmission..
Well, as been said many times: "Your mileage may vary..."

You asked a question and I answered it. I did not put that information out there for acceptance nor approval from anyone. It is simply what works for me and I have skills that have been developed from it as well as skills that continue to grow from additional methods that support and compliment the basic method.

When you are younger, peer acceptance is of major importance. However, as you progress down the path of life, it becomes significantly less and less - eventually, you get to the point where it really means absolutely nothing - for those out there that are in their 20s, 30s, and 40s, you may start to realize this when you get past your mid 50s and older

What is important is the open minded sharing. Of course, not everyone will see things the same as you, but maybe your thoughts, and/or experiences, may get them thinking in another perspective - that is how we intellectually grow as a society. Just think about how boring and un-challenging life would be if everyone thought alike because everyone agreed with everyone else - that would just drive me into the mountains to be a hermit where I could commune with the kami
 
Old 04-07-2010, 01:52 PM   #39
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post
hi Greg,

a few thoughts ... i think: another way to connect with your post
As an example:
-your heart consumes energy and beats automatically. you don't have to believe in it. But you can effect it with your beliefs (imagine someone kicking your dog. Dammit).
-it is effected by your subconscious as well as mediated by your autonomic system
-you can train your body to take control of normally subconscious/automatic things and train and refine them. Visualization can be used to tap into this. I think this is where what you call 'belief' can accurately be mapped to 'intent' by others. my opinion.
-you can feel and know -it- directly. but it does require training to become sensitive to 'the water we, as fish, swim in'. The fish analog here is to the energy in the human body<, part of which is under volitional control; and part under the brain/subconscious. 'belief' is one way to tap into the subconscious. it can be dangerous; as you are messing with your very own Tuner.
-in fact this 'belief' part, I find, is where it can fork off into a million other things (potentially delusional). This was helpful to me:: 'the energy can play with your mind'. In my thinking: Don't forget we are talking about hacking both the hardware(body/shenfa/chi) and software (mind/body programming/methods/shenfa /chi(yes; counted in both columns)/balance/proprioception/flexing patterns/etc). We are talking about changing the way things 'work' today... and I think it would be negligent to think changing them doesn't have subsequent effects somehow (i.e.... and how we see, feel and think with that very same hardware platform)
just some thoughts you put in my head! All only "In my opinion". Errors are mine alone.

Thanks a lot for sharing, Greg. Always interesting.
Hi Josh,

As usual, you put an interesting slant on things, that after some reflection, I can not disagree with. Without going into too much detail, I can see how you can take 'belief' and relate it to 'intent', as well as your hook into the emotional side - all that is internal and in the mind as well as belief. My use of the word belief was really meant to infer that it all starts in the mind, you just brought that point out in a different way.

I also like your analogy about hacking into the hardware AND software of the body - need to think about that some more.

Greg
 
Old 04-07-2010, 01:59 PM   #40
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Greg, thanks for sharing. however, i don't agree with the whole esoteric approach. personally, i believed it (aiki) can be trained in a methodical fashion. take the example of the keeping the one point. to me, using learning the alphabet analogy, is like learning letter A then jump to letter G (the one point). folks don't realize that in order to get to G you need to know B,C, D, E and F. you can definitely train for B, then C, then D, then E, then F. by the time you get to F, the one point would be apparent. similarly, i heard Ikeda sensei said to move your inside for years, and i watched folks, from low (me) to high rank, couldn't do what he did for years and years. what wrong with that picture? the answer is: folks don't realize "to move your inside" is letter O, but to Ikeda, it's B. in order to move your inside, you have to train (personal training) a number of prerequisite things before you can do that.

in short (since i am a short person), it's a trainable and in a progressive process. it's not esoteric or mystic. and it doesn't take 20 years or even 10.

as far as timing and distance, most fighting arts already done it through generations. the ones that don't, usually are 6 feet under and never get the chance to pass on the knowledge. but we are not talking about timing and distance. to me, aiki is about dealing with actual contact energy at the contact point. that's the defining moment.

of course, my definition might change the next second when someone else smacks me in the head.
 
Old 04-07-2010, 02:07 PM   #41
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one more thing to add. years ago, at a seminar, Hooker sensei said "teach the mind through the body, then teach the body through the mind." it applies here. doing physical things to teach your mind how to use intent, then use the intent to make your body to do physical things.
 
Old 04-07-2010, 02:11 PM   #42
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
Greg, thanks for sharing. however, i don't agree with the whole esoteric approach. personally, i believed it (aiki) can be trained in a methodical fashion. take the example of the keeping the one point. to me, using learning the alphabet analogy, is like learning letter A then jump to letter G (the one point). folks don't realize that in order to get to G you need to know B,C, D, E and F. you can definitely train for B, then C, then D, then E, then F. by the time you get to F, the one point would be apparent. similarly, i heard Ikeda sensei said to move your inside for years, and i watched folks, from low (me) to high rank, couldn't do what he did for years and years. what wrong with that picture? the answer is: folks don't realize "to move your inside" is letter O, but to Ikeda, it's B. in order to move your inside, you have to train (personal training) a number of prerequisite things before you can do that.

in short (since i am a short person), it's a trainable and in a progressive process. it's not esoteric or mystic. and it doesn't take 20 years or even 10.
Hi Phi,

I agree with your view on the A, B, C... type of approach - each step does certainty provide a base for understanding and learning the next step or level. The esoteric part comes into play at the Step where you need to understand how to use the mind since we all do that differently. Once that is accomplished, then a logical step by step approach is easily implemented after establishment of your personal mental intent baseline, etc.

As for being short, you must be an expert at getting under someone and doing aiki-agae

Greg
 
Old 04-07-2010, 02:13 PM   #43
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

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one more thing to add. years ago, at a seminar, Hooker sensei said "teach the mind through the body, then teach the body through the mind." it applies here. doing physical things to teach your mind how to use intent, then use the intent to make your body to do physical things.
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
 
Old 04-07-2010, 02:24 PM   #44
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
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Well, as been said many times: "Your mileage may vary..."
Yep, this thread is a good indicator of that

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
You asked a question and I answered it. I did not put that information out there for acceptance nor approval from anyone. It is simply what works for me and I have skills that have been developed from it as well as skills that continue to grow from additional methods that support and compliment the basic method.
Well, understood, Greg - and if you get vetted as someone that's got the goods and making progress leaps and bounds with this stuff, believe me I'll line up with everyone else to figure out how to apply that approach.

Quote:
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When you are younger, peer acceptance is of major importance. However, as you progress down the path of life, it becomes significantly less and less - eventually, you get to the point where it really means absolutely nothing - for those out there that are in their 20s, 30s, and 40s, you may start to realize this when you get past your mid 50s and older
Well, two things - I'm in my 30s and if peer acceptance were that important I'd be running to find the next dojo or group to "join". But I am really only interested in finding other people that just want to train hard and put things through their paces and see what comes out. Beyond that, meh.

As for progressing down the path of life - it happens and you ride the wave as best you can . . I'd bet that there's lots of folks that are sure they know it all in their 20s, 30s, and 40s and even past their mid 50s . . for the same or different reasons.

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
What is important is the open minded sharing. Of course, not everyone will see things the same as you, but maybe your thoughts, and/or experiences, may get them thinking in another perspective - that is how we intellectually grow as a society. Just think about how boring and un-challenging life would be if everyone thought alike because everyone agreed with everyone else - that would just drive me into the mountains to be a hermit where I could commune with the kami
Well, that I can't argue with, I just get issues around the notion of a belief system as compared to "working with intention, checking results, level setting, etc" . . and it could just be me or semantics or interpretations. .but I think part of the roots of these discussions are around how "this stuff" works and what you can demonstrate as opposed to what you believe. I don't disagree that intention/imagery has a powerful connection to the process . . but then there's a basic body conditioning process (lots of work and sweat) to then be able to manifest that intention into measurable and observable action.
 
Old 04-07-2010, 02:29 PM   #45
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
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The esoteric part comes into play at the Step where you need to understand how to use the mind since we all do that differently. Once that is accomplished, then a logical step by step approach is easily implemented after establishment of your personal mental intent baseline, etc.

As for being short, you must be an expert at getting under someone and doing aiki-agae

Greg
i think you hit on the right spot. everyone's mind works differently, i.e. their body responses different as well. this makes learning aiki different for everyone. there is a gross baseline of aiki training that everyone could train. after that, it's all personal.

couldn't get under Sigman. shorter than him and squatting very low and he didn't change his body posture one bit. methink, if i lay on the floor, he probably could still get under me without changing his body posture. it was an eye opener to me. can you imagine what that means to judo/jujutsu folks where you can get under someone without even change your body posture?
 
Old 04-07-2010, 02:33 PM   #46
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
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Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
making chicken salad (which includes eggs and nuts and some curry and ....) ok. hungry now. forget aiki. foods first.
 
Old 04-07-2010, 02:40 PM   #47
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
one more thing to add. years ago, at a seminar, Hooker sensei said "teach the mind through the body, then teach the body through the mind." it applies here. doing physical things to teach your mind how to use intent, then use the intent to make your body to do physical things.
Amen to that. He never disappoints. But the same is true of the mind understanding the action it wills/provokes/evokes (however you choose to express it) in objective terms. Not merely subjective impressions, but what is going on that causes those impressions. Not that we do calculation(pace Mark's legitimate objection) in the midst of performance, which is simply silly -- but that we have a sound ruler and categories to analyze our sense impressions and performance on objective measures -- to determine what failed and how to correct it.

As Josh's example of shenfa/qi being in both columns (which FWIW, I agree with totally, in those terms) illustrates why a different set of conceptual categories of action is necessary to capture important distinctions that do not map into our more conventional conceptual suite about this type of action. Linear force/vector/ intent as such does not cut it for that reason -- not because it is wrong (it is not) but because it is dreadfully simplistic, ill-fitting and cumbersome. But that ain't the only wench in the physical mechanics toolbox, folks, and some other ones map EXCEEDINGLY well. Since my ruler works pretty darn well to help my mind identify and remove the sources of bodily failure and to explore depths of my body's natural tendencies that I had not initially expected -- I judge it to be genuinely describing an objective reality I can work with and more than a little useful in the terms Hooker describes.

Last edited by Erick Mead : 04-07-2010 at 02:43 PM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
 
Old 04-07-2010, 03:29 PM   #48
gregstec
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post

Well, understood, Greg - and if you get vetted as someone that's got the goods and making progress leaps and bounds with this stuff, believe me I'll line up with everyone else to figure out how to apply that approach.
Not sure what you mean by vetted, and no one makes progress by leaps and bounds in this stuff, but just for the record, I have trained with Dan (and I am still training with Dan when I can) and although I am not 'vetted' by him, I have been told I have strong mental intent; which I have already stated elsewhere was simply an application of extending ki as I was taught in the ki society (which I believe led to your original question to me) - and to the best of my recollection, I was not told to stop that. Actually, I was told to quit being lazy and to do more.

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
As for progressing down the path of life - it happens and you ride the wave as best you can . . I'd bet that there's lots of folks that are sure they know it all in their 20s, 30s, and 40s and even past their mid 50s . . for the same or different reasons.
No one said anything about knowing it all - my comment was simply as you got older, opinion and approvals from others meant a whole lot less to you.

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
Well, that I can't argue with, I just get issues around the notion of a belief system as compared to "working with intention, checking results, level setting, etc" . . and it could just be me or semantics or interpretations. .but I think part of the roots of these discussions are around how "this stuff" works and what you can demonstrate as opposed to what you believe. I don't disagree that intention/imagery has a powerful connection to the process . . but then there's a basic body conditioning process (lots of work and sweat) to then be able to manifest that intention into measurable and observable action.
Who said anything about a belief system? I simply stated you needed to believe in Tohei's explanation of ki to make his system work as it was taught to us.

As I believe was mentioned in other posts by Dan and Mike, they stated (paraphrase here) that Tohei had the right approach to IS, but that he did not take it to the next level. I believe that and I also believe that Dan and Mike have methods that do take it to the next level and that is why I too have taken my training to the next level with Dan - and no one said that there was not any body conditioning aspects with a lot of work and sweat - actually, after one of Dan's sessions, all you got is an aching body and a lot of sweat.

I am a little puzzled by your obvious tone of condemnation towards my training approach to IS. All I did was answer your question related to how I extend ki. I am starting to think you set me up with a bit of troll here. If you think I am full of it, just state so, as I mentioned, I could care less of your, or anyone's opinion in this area that I do not currently train with. Actually, based on past experience with you, I never did expect you to agree with it anyway and was reluctant to share it at first, but I thought why not, it just may be of interest to someone.
 
Old 04-07-2010, 03:54 PM   #49
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Budd wrote:
Quote:
But I am really only interested in finding other people that just want to train hard and put things through their paces and see what comes out. Beyond that, meh.
Best thing that has been written in this thread today, if you ask me. My thoughts exactly.

 
Old 04-07-2010, 04:49 PM   #50
Charles Hill
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Major kudos to Chris and Mark for posting video!

Being able to see what you guys are talking about really raises the bar in any of these discussions. I will be sure to read what you write more carefully from now on.

Thanks.
 

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