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Old 02-10-2010, 09:55 AM   #26
lbb
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Johann Baptista wrote: View Post
I believe it is a disrespect to the traditions that bore the art.
I don't think it has anything to do with the art per se. I mean, why should the fact that you're on an "aikido journey", so-called, be the reason why you question whether or not it is appropriate to smoke marijuana? The question makes no sense to me. It's like asking, "Should you eat pork rinds if you're a CPA?"
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:19 AM   #27
Marc Abrams
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Training in any athletic endeavor when you are impaired/under the influence of any mind-altering substance is potentially dangerous not only to the person, but to anybody who trains with that person.

I can not think of any cogent reason why any dojo should allow a person to train in an altered state. I have even spoken to a student who had alcohol on his breath, despite acting entirely sober. As the owner of a dojo, I am ultimately responsible for the well-being of the students training there. Clean body, mind and uniforms are simply starting points to walk onto my mats!

True Story:

One of my sempai was going through a divorce and would smoke pot before training. Pot calms must people down. For him, it had a disinhibitory effect. The result was that he became an angry snap and people would get hurt (big strong person). This person needed to spoken to and told what was going on and that nobody really wanted to train with him anymore. This is a good person who was oblivious as to what was going on. He had no intent or desire to hurt anybody.

bottom line:

Train safe means NO MIND-ALTERING substances before training.

Marc Abrams
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:42 PM   #28
Johann Baptista
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Chicko Xerri wrote: View Post
To help purify the senses and interpret the higher self, one requires fresh clean air, water, forests, mountains and on occasions solitude. Practice Aikido rigorously while youthful; contemplate with inner vision on all your experience when aged.
Marijuana has its place with human lives, not with those intent on the way of Aiki.
For me I would say NO! .
Agreed. Very well said. The less of the stench of modern man that can be eliminated the better. Only Wilderness is purity, for it was made by the hand of the Creator and the Kami. The pollution, drugs, addiction to comfort, overuse of technology... all of this draws us away from the source.





- Johann
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:55 PM   #29
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

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Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I don't think it has anything to do with the art per se. I mean, why should the fact that you're on an "aikido journey", so-called, be the reason why you question whether or not it is appropriate to smoke marijuana? The question makes no sense to me. It's like asking, "Should you eat pork rinds if you're a CPA?"
I agree. Or "should you drink whiskey..." It all depends on what you want from it I suppose.
I'm guessing the OP thinks of smoking marijuana as at least a quasi-spiritual experience and also considers Aikido to be and of course is then wondering if the two somehow are inapropriate together. In the sense that smoking anything is bad for you, I'm guessing it's not ideal. As for the mind-altering or potentially spiritual quality associated with it I can't guess (though I agree with everyone with regard to being on the mat: it's not appropriate). Personally I think the ability to induce natural highs is far more useful. Not only is it a LOT cheaper, but the ability to induce your own "zone" or "trance" is a lot more self-sufficient than relying on some external substance. Personally I look to practices like Aikido to teach me better self-control and self-awareness and the best approach for me has come from removing things like marijuana from the process. I used to enjoy taking a toke and swinging the bokken around, but any of the small leaps I may have ever made in Aikido came during times when I was not high.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:15 PM   #30
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

everything seems to come at a cost. Some are greater than others. I suppose each individual needs to figure that out for him/herself.

That said, don't show up high, drunk, or otherwise in any other state that causes you impairment of your senses and expect me to practice with you.

That includes using a cell phone or texting while you are practicing.

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Old 02-10-2010, 02:57 PM   #31
David Orange
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

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Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
That said, don't show up high, drunk, or otherwise in any other state that causes you impairment of your senses and expect me to practice with you.
Actually, in Japan, there's quite a tradition of occasionally training while blasted drunk--at least once or twice--so that you know what your performance will be like if you're ever attacked after you've been to one of those obligatory gut-busting drunk-fests the Japanese have almost every night after work.

I trained with a prison guard for a long time and one night he showed up stinking drunk. I was a bit frightened of training with him in that state but fortunately, he didn't get unusually aggressive. Mostly, he seemed to hover on the edge of puking and he sweated a lot and clearly didn't enjoy the process.

Another time, Mochizuki Sensei invited me to drink some sake with a guest of his very shortly before class was to begin. I always led the first hour of class in those days, so I declined but Sensei actually seemed a bit disappointed. Maybe he just wanted to see me puke!!! I did a lot of bowing and gomen nasaiing and went and got my gi and got ready for class.

And as I mentioned in another thread where this was discussed, I remember reading Ellis Amdur's comments somewhere about getting stoned with Terry Dobson (at the Bond Street Dojo, I think) and training together. I'm not recommending anything, but maybe we should solicit his thoughts on this.

Best to all.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

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Old 02-10-2010, 03:29 PM   #32
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

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Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Training in any athletic endeavor when you are impaired/under the influence of any mind-altering substance is potentially dangerous not only to the person, but to anybody who trains with that person.
But that wasn't the question.
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Old 02-10-2010, 05:21 PM   #33
eyrie
 
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I don't think it has anything to do with the art per se. I mean, why should the fact that you're on an "aikido journey", so-called, be the reason why you question whether or not it is appropriate to smoke marijuana? The question makes no sense to me. It's like asking, "Should you eat pork rinds if you're a CPA?"
Exactly. It's an irrational question. Besides, if one wanted to take a "journey", or a "trip", Mary-Jo wouldn't exactly be the drug of choice.

So, smoke, drink, and eat crispy pork rinds if you must - preferably in the comfort of your own adobe. It's your choice. What sort of "journey" do you want to experience?

Ignatius
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:57 PM   #34
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
But that wasn't the question.
But that is the answer...

George S. Ledyard
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:18 AM   #35
Walter Martindale
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
But that is the answer...
Too true.

I went to WATCH a judo practice after a few beers, rather than participate... because of the beers... The sensei said something along the lines of "good choice - you puke on the mats because you've been drinking and you wipe it up with your gi, and then wear it on your way out."..

When you're training you need ALL of your senses...
W
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:01 AM   #36
Michael Fitzgerald
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

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Andrew Gordan wrote: View Post
ttht
should I..!?
no man- no, I should not.

did you mean to ask if you should?

coz I mean, if you thought that was a well phrased question, then yes perhaps you should! just don't try going to class like that.

also, fail troll is fail.
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:04 AM   #37
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
But that is the answer...
It's the answer to something, that's for sure!

(and 42 to you too )
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:44 AM   #38
Eugene Leslie
 
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

No.

THC will blight your training whilst you delude yourself and dream of bullshit.

In otherwords you won't progress and you will practice insincerity.

Read the previous posts concerning the dangers to yourself and others in the dojo when under the influence.

It was said that often Osensei's students were actually afraid of being killed when being uke to Osensei. Aikido does not suffer lapses in attention.

Self-discipline is the chief element of self-esteem; and self-esteem the chief element of courage. Thucydides
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:58 AM   #39
mathewjgano
 
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Eugene Leslie wrote: View Post
THC will blight your training whilst you delude yourself and dream of bullshit.
Perhaps, but that seems a bit presumptuous to me. Living in the Pac NW I've known a lot of potheads, indeed whole families of potheads, and they're no more deluded than anyone else...so far as I can tell at least.

Quote:
Read the previous posts concerning the dangers to yourself and others in the dojo when under the influence.
Aikido does not suffer lapses in attention.
It's this last part that makes me inclined to say people shouldn't mix the two. Then again though, sometimes a person will show up to training dog tired and folks don't think twice about it. I remember a study that was done in the U.K. comparing the effects of sleeplessness, marijuana, and alcohol on operating a car. Marijuana was the safest option of the three.
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4270
Now, as with driving a car, you're taking a very real risk if you decide to imbibe, and that is not fair to the people around you in my opinion, but I also want to set a little perspective. Compared to the very socially accepted alcohol, marijuana is slight in its effects.
Ok...devil's advocate signing out.
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:13 PM   #40
Marc Abrams
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
It's the answer to something, that's for sure!

(and 42 to you too )
Mary:

On anybody's "journey" in life, they are basically entitled to do anything that they would like to do to themselves. I frankly do not care if that includes "consensual" relationships with "mature" live stock !

That being said, that Aikido "journey" will involved practicing with another person. At that point in time, NO MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCES should be used by any one party, due to the REAL risks that are entailed by doing so. If two consensual adults want to practice with one or both of them being stoned on anything, then let them do it in the privacy of their own abodes. Maybe Cheech and Chong run a dojo for all I know. In my school, the rules are clear and well defined. I have seen the bad side of when that policy is not enforced. This is of course my opinion based upon my life, which has included in participating in a wealth of mind-altering substances when I was much younger. Even then, I never mixed training with partying. When I did, it was reserved for training with a MIGHTY hangover and I did that very rarely, because of how much training like that was a bad experience!

Marc Abrams
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:31 PM   #41
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Nick Pittson wrote: View Post
#1. No

#2.
Perfect...A troll question to begin with IMO.

William Hazen
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:41 PM   #42
lbb
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

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Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
That being said, that Aikido "journey" will involved practicing with another person. At that point in time, NO MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCES should be used by any one party, due to the REAL risks that are entailed by doing so.
Let's be clear about what we're talking about. The question was about smoking dope while "on an Aikido journey". That's a somewhat ambiguous phrase, but I think a fair interpretation might be "while living a life in which one studies Aikido." Everyone, including yourself, is insisting on answering a question that has not been asked, which is, "Should you get high and then get on the mat?" The result has been a chorus of "hell no", which I don't disagree with, but it's really got nothing to do with the question that was asked.
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:27 PM   #43
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Let's be clear about what we're talking about. The question was about smoking dope while "on an Aikido journey". That's a somewhat ambiguous phrase, but I think a fair interpretation might be "while living a life in which one studies Aikido." Everyone, including yourself, is insisting on answering a question that has not been asked, which is, "Should you get high and then get on the mat?" The result has been a chorus of "hell no", which I don't disagree with, but it's really got nothing to do with the question that was asked.
Mary:

Let me be clear: READ MY FIRST PARAGRAPH. Here let me help you out: "On anybody's "journey" in life, they are basically entitled to do anything that they would like to do to themselves. I frankly do not care if that includes "consensual" relationships with "mature" live stock !"

I do not give a damn what a person does to his/herself in a private manner, which includes smoking pot, as long as in doing so, does not create an undue burden on others (eg.- broke junkie who uses the merry-go-round of multiple detox's at the taxpayer's expense).

I do not necessarily "read" the thread like you do. Let us agree to read different things into the thread, while agreeing on the importance of training in a safe environment.

Marc Abrams
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:35 PM   #44
ilia rudnitskiy
 
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

^clearly then, if we all agree about not smoking pot before practicing with others at your dojo, why don't we discuss other aspects of the "journey in Aikido" rather than arguing...
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:07 AM   #45
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

... I was gonna take ukemi too. But then I got high. Now my arms get all jacked up and I know why...Why man?.... cuz I got high cuz I got high cuz I got high....
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:52 AM   #46
Nikopol
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Duy Trinh wrote: View Post
... I was gonna take ukemi too. But then I got high. Now my arms get all jacked up and I know why...Why man?.... cuz I got high cuz I got high cuz I got high....
La-da-da da da da da....

I would say that if you have to ask the answer is no.
Cannabis can make one move and respond well, but if you have a
cultural belief that it is "wrong" it is going to be an impediment.

I you were using it for a medical condition, I can understand it, if not, best to avoid it. I know a lot of members will give you flack for even asking the question, they are also culturally biased against it.

So, if you need to ask, then no, don't use it.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:13 AM   #47
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Ilia Rudnitskiy wrote: View Post
^clearly then, if we all agree about not smoking pot before practicing with others at your dojo, why don't we discuss other aspects of the "journey in Aikido" rather than arguing...
That was kind of my point. Sorry people got het up about it.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:28 AM   #48
bulevardi
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Sometimes I should drink coffee before training.
Just to have to power (Ki) to keep me awake when concentrating while watching the sensei's techniques

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Old 02-12-2010, 09:31 AM   #49
Michael Fitzgerald
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

This thread seems to be going in the direction of intoxication Vs Aikido training.

does that still qualify as a valid part of the 'spiritual' board Jun?
Personally- if I may be so bold, I think not.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:54 AM   #50
ninjaqutie
 
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Uck... I can't say what you should do... but I will not EVER touch that or any other drug for that matter. I have seen what drugs do to people first hand. No thanks...

~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.
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